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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 22 Oct 19 4.30pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I had a German friend a long time ago who argued that democracy was too precious to be left to the people.

He seriously argued that there ought to be thresholds other than just a minimum age which you needed to pass before you were allowed a vote. His primary one was an intelligence test of some kind, although how he thought that would be administered was never made clear.

Of course I didn't agree but I bet his views have hardened after the Brexit fiasco.

By the way, that's not what I am saying, as you very well know! All I saying is that everyone needs to think of the impact on future generations and not just their own. If you do, then fine.


What spurious nonsense. And perhaps the most dangerous idea of them all. We either have universal adult sufferage or else dictatorship. A benevolent dictatorship is probably the most effective of all forms of Governance (my wife for example speaks most highly of Yugoslavia under Tito) but democracy can only work if it has the highest possible of adult involvement.

And why I become so enraged about people wishing to dismiss the results of June 23rd. I appreciate I am a broken record on it but the facts speak for themselves. A huge turnout, each vote equally weighted, a simple question and a definite result. 52 beats 48 every time.

Why on earth would anybody want to f*** with that? To undermine the validity of what happened on that day? You don't like the result, that I get, tell us that it was advisory only and that Parliament has within its power to ignore it completely, again a valid point.

But to want us to effectively re-run it the losing option given a second chance? Utterly undermining the most core principles of the democratic process. Effectively telling 17.4 million voters that your votes were not deemed sufficient despite all the promises and pledges beforehand.

Desire Parliament to revoke A50, that I get. I might vehemently disagree but it is within the boundaries of how democracy works in the UK. But another referendum when the first has not been acted upon? Beyond ludicrous. Myopic stupidity to the 'nth degree.

People do not have to justify why they vote the way they do. If they tossed a coin, that is perfectly acceptable.

Your German friend needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and reflect back on his nation's history.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 22 Oct 19 4.31pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I had a German friend a long time ago who argued that democracy was too precious to be left to the people.

He seriously argued that there ought to be thresholds other than just a minimum age which you needed to pass before you were allowed a vote. His primary one was an intelligence test of some kind, although how he thought that would be administered was never made clear.

Of course I didn't agree but I bet his views have hardened after the Brexit fiasco.

By the way, that's not what I am saying, as you very well know! All I saying is that everyone needs to think of the impact on future generations and not just their own. If you do, then fine.

All well and good, but that is the price of a democratic system. It's also the reason why there is a parliament. The negatives of this are obvious, but it's the least worst system. Can you imagine every piece of legislation being decided by a public vote?

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 22 Oct 19 4.32pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You aren't of course being serious. Age brings experience and wisdom, or at least it should.

All I have argued for is to use that in the interests of those who will be affected most by any changes/

That’s all very well but who decides what those interests are? And just out of interest, how do they know?

 

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W12 22 Oct 19 4.32pm

"I had a German friend a long time ago who argued that democracy was too precious to be left to the people"

Without a hint of irony

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 19 4.35pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Boris now going for a back me or sack me strategy.

I think this is the right move. If MPs don't like the deal fair enough then vote for a GE. If they won't back the deal or an GE the public will make their own mind up.

Corbyn will look pretty foolish saying this government is incompetent whilst in effective he is propping it up.

By the way I think I know why WE isn't on here during the afternoon. He's John Bercow aren't you WE?

C'mon it's obvious that's why we've never seen a picture of Bercow and WE together.

Typical as soon as I post this he pops up. Oh well just my attempt at a little humour.


Edited by Badger11 (22 Oct 2019 2.58pm)

Even though I admire the way Bercow has handled all of this I wouldn't want to be him. I am quite happy being me!

The question now is whether the MPs will vote to approve the timetable and then try to talk it out beyond the deadline, or even if they are able to do that. If they aren't then I think it will be killed tonight and a GE called before the end of this week. I just cannot see this Parliament voting through this deal as it stands.

There is no doubt that locally people are gearing up for a GE when the very question of any kind of Brexit is back on the table. Only today I received two pieces of electioneering literature to exactly that effect. One from the LibDems, who are by far the most active so far, and one from "cornwallforeurope" who are a new organisation to me. The LibDem one was predictable but well done but the other did not support anyone. It was 100% "stop Brexit", was very professionally done and contained some new and powerful arguments. This is all 10 x better than the "remain" campaign was in 2016 and will make a big difference.

Are others getting these kind of things yet or is this unique to around here?

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 19 4.36pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

"I had a German friend a long time ago who argued that democracy was too precious to be left to the people"

Without a hint of irony

The irony was there, but maybe you missed it!

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 19 4.37pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

That’s all very well but who decides what those interests are? And just out of interest, how do they know?

Everyone has to decide that for themselves.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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W12 22 Oct 19 4.39pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The irony was there, but maybe you missed it!

Just for you:

[Link]

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 19 4.40pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

All well and good, but that is the price of a democratic system. It's also the reason why there is a parliament. The negatives of this are obvious, but it's the least worst system. Can you imagine every piece of legislation being decided by a public vote?

Which is, of course, my own position. I just hope that our MPs consider the future generations more than they consider their own. In fact I know that many are doing exactly that.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 19 4.44pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


What spurious nonsense. And perhaps the most dangerous idea of them all. We either have universal adult sufferage or else dictatorship. A benevolent dictatorship is probably the most effective of all forms of Governance (my wife for example speaks most highly of Yugoslavia under Tito) but democracy can only work if it has the highest possible of adult involvement.

And why I become so enraged about people wishing to dismiss the results of June 23rd. I appreciate I am a broken record on it but the facts speak for themselves. A huge turnout, each vote equally weighted, a simple question and a definite result. 52 beats 48 every time.

Why on earth would anybody want to f*** with that? To undermine the validity of what happened on that day? You don't like the result, that I get, tell us that it was advisory only and that Parliament has within its power to ignore it completely, again a valid point.

But to want us to effectively re-run it the losing option given a second chance? Utterly undermining the most core principles of the democratic process. Effectively telling 17.4 million voters that your votes were not deemed sufficient despite all the promises and pledges beforehand.

Desire Parliament to revoke A50, that I get. I might vehemently disagree but it is within the boundaries of how democracy works in the UK. But another referendum when the first has not been acted upon? Beyond ludicrous. Myopic stupidity to the 'nth degree.

People do not have to justify why they vote the way they do. If they tossed a coin, that is perfectly acceptable.

Your German friend needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and reflect back on his nation's history.

As I said I didn't agree with him then, and don't now.

I won't bother to disagree with the rest. You know I do and why. In any case it's now a mute point given the current direction of travel.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Oct 19 4.48pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by W12

"I had a German friend a long time ago who argued that democracy was too precious to be left to the people"

Without a hint of irony

You vill go on ze list.

 

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View robdave2k's Profile robdave2k Flag 22 Oct 19 4.49pm Send a Private Message to robdave2k Add robdave2k as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I had a German friend a long time ago who argued that democracy was too precious to be left to the people.

He seriously argued that there ought to be thresholds other than just a minimum age which you needed to pass before you were allowed a vote. His primary one was an intelligence test of some kind, although how he thought that would be administered was never made clear.

Of course I didn't agree but I bet his views have hardened after the Brexit fiasco.

By the way, that's not what I am saying, as you very well know! All I saying is that everyone needs to think of the impact on future generations and not just their own. If you do, then fine.


So just out of interest and using some artistic licence here granted.

You’re 74 and moved to Truro. Average house price in Truro circa £330k so going to assume from that (and you over indulgent smug tones on this thread) that you are financially comfortable.

So presumably you would be happy to take a cut in your state pension to help future generations? Not saying that is right or agreeable but surely that is something that would benefit. What then if everyone over 70 had to, whether they could afford to or not? Now let’s say the majority of these pensioners vote against it. But you consider it right. Are they wrong because they put their own situation first?

You make the point out impacting future generations.

1. No one can know the impact.
2. Most people will have considered their children/grandchildren
3. You’re clearly not a working class lorry driver from Doncaster, but I’ll bet you could lecture them to death and believe you have more right to an opinion than they do.

The most beautiful irony you seem unaware of though is that you continually state leave had the traction as it’s easier to argue for change. Missing the point that is exactly what you are doing now. Arguing for change. Yet when faced with reasoned debate, you revert to being overbearing.

My personal feelings - if you pay taxes, contribute to society and are a good citizen you have as much right to vote for any option.

I personally couldn’t vote for Corbyn under any situation (though the free Unicorn is tempting), but if someone chooses to then that is their right.

I would also suggest Truro is not taking the same hit that other parts of the country do with immigration.

I vote how I vote based on personal knowledge, my local mp gets my vote as he is a good local mp. Wider than that, I voted out based on personal experiences both here and in other countries.

 

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