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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Nov 16 12.49pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There are people who have to deal in the details and then there are those who are visionary and think beyond all that. We need both types.

Quite agree. Except I think we had the visionary types only, whilst the details men on both sides, seemed to have been kept out of the picture.

 


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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Nov 16 12.49pm

Hooray, less workers rights.


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 08 Nov 16 12.49pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

The impact of leaving the EU and the single market - the world's second largest economy - will be felt much more by those that can least afford it Hrolf.

I get the impression you are not one of them.

 


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View Part Time James's Profile Part Time James Flag 08 Nov 16 12.50pm Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Hooray, less workers rights.


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Fewer?

Sorry!

 




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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Nov 16 12.53pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Quite agree. Except I think we had the visionary types only, whilst the details men on both sides, seemed to have been kept out of the picture.

But you can't expect the majority of voters to vote based on detail. They never have and they never will.

Details are spun just like the bigger issues in any case.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Nov 16 12.56pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

The impact of leaving the EU and the single market - the world's second largest economy - will be felt much more by those that can least afford it Hrolf.

I get the impression you are not one of them.

I disagree. Globalism will mean lower wages and more work going to migrants and out sourced to other countries.

Your prognosis is all about markets and trade deals which are a total unknown.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Nov 16 12.59pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Hooray, less workers rights.


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Less work if we were to remain.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Nov 16 1.09pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I disagree. Globalism will mean lower wages and more work going to migrants and out sourced to other countries.

Your prognosis is all about markets and trade deals which are a total unknown.

A moot argument, globalisation is inevitable consequence of capitalism and technology. There is no capacity for the regulation of multi-nationals.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 08 Nov 16 1.14pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I disagree. Globalism will mean lower wages and more work going to migrants and out sourced to other countries.

Your prognosis is all about markets and trade deals which are a total unknown.

With respect, I think you are deluding yourself if you think this protest vote being implemented and curtailing our EU membership - and access to the single market - will have any real impact on what happens with regard to globalisation. All it will do is hurt us whilst others go about their business.

As has often been said 'Capitalism will eat itself' but let's not make it tougher on ourselves in the meantime, eh?

If it's full blown economic and social revolution you are after then I suggest joining the Anarchists or the hard left.

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Nov 16 1.23pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

A moot argument, globalisation is inevitable consequence of capitalism and technology. There is no capacity for the regulation of multi-nationals.

The national gpovernment must serve the interests of the people, not itself or that of self interest groups.

Capitalism must be made to work for the people not at the expense of the people. That is the ideal.

The Trump phenomenon is a symptom of the failure of government to recognise this. The US election will be most likely decided by recent migrants and this is the irony of the liberal/Democrat vote. They are voting against the interests of their own demographic and for all the factors that have caused the decline in their own living standards. Trump is one of the few men who could afford to run against "the establishment". Clinton is funded by business and will probably win because of that and Trump's indiscipline.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Nov 16 1.29pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

With respect, I think you are deluding yourself if you think this protest vote being implemented and curtailing our EU membership - and access to the single market - will have any real impact on what happens with regard to globalisation. All it will do is hurt us whilst others go about their business.

As has often been said 'Capitalism will eat itself' but let's not make it tougher on ourselves in the meantime, eh?

If it's full blown economic and social revolution you are after then I suggest joining the Anarchists or the hard left.

Evolution. Capitalism is not sustainable in it's current form. It must recognise that it's own desire to profit must be tempered with it's duty to the human race. There can be no profit in a world where the economy has collapsed.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Nov 2016 1.30pm)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Nov 16 2.58pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The national gpovernment must serve the interests of the people, not itself or that of self interest groups.

Capitalism must be made to work for the people not at the expense of the people. That is the ideal.

Whilst I tend to agree with this ideology, the problem is that national governments capacity to regulate or control international corporations is negligible. It could only be achieved with a consensus of nations via something like the UN or EU. In response to regulation Multinationals tend to shift affected profit arms to 'more pliant' countries, and import into the more regulated countries either via a subsidiary or third party.

Increasingly companies, operating in the UK, will utilise the weakness of international law, to maximise profits, irrespective of individual national interests.

The demands of Corporate interests, are more defining on government, any government, than the actual government itself.

I don't see how this form of capitalism can be made to work for any individual country, as its principle architect has no real national ties.

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The Trump phenomenon is a symptom of the failure of government to recognise this. The US election will be most likely decided by recent migrants and this is the irony of the liberal/Democrat vote. They are voting against the interests of their own demographic and for all the factors that have caused the decline in their own living standards. Trump is one of the few men who could afford to run against "the establishment". Clinton is funded by business and will probably win because of that and Trump's indiscipline.

Although, Saunders did surprisingly well. Of course Trump is the establishment - Not representing Business, but actually being business. I don't think so much he represents a 'protest' in the way maybe UKIP did, but an internal disgust at the core of republicans, which saw the Tea Party splinter off its lunatic fringe, and is increasingly losing it working class base.

Republican politics in the US is split between moderates, corporate interest representatives, the religious right, the wealthy and working joes.

In the same way Labour has seen problems here, the Republican Trump, is effectively their Corbyn - Lots of grass roots, core republican supporters, no real support within the party itself - Effectively those ordinary, key Republicans have been alienated by the party, but not so much as to become democratic voters, instead like in the Labour party they've been sparked by an outsider from the fringe, who appeals on a level they engage with.

Just like Corbyn with the 'old left' over New Labour. Trump appeals to that alienated right wing, working class.

 


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