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Is Islam, the new Nazi ?


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jun 14 12.16pm

Quote Kermit8 at 19 Jun 2014 11.48am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2014 9.44am

Quote legaleagle at 19 Jun 2014 12.03am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Jun 2014 11.50pm

Quote legaleagle at 18 Jun 2014 11.20pm

Quote TI-508 at 18 Jun 2014 9.32am

How many anti-Vietnam war demonstrators blew up trains and buses, killed soldiers in the streets and went off to fight for the Viet-Cong?


Well, the Weather Underground in the USA in the late 60's/early 70's (which grew out of the anti-war movement) did a fair number of bombings and kidnappings...

The Weather Underground killed four people, one by accident and three of its own members whilst assembling a bomb - It had a very strong 'no kill policy).

The Black Panther party for Self Defence however were also part of the anti-Vietnam war movement and were involved in direct violent confrontation. The BLA and SLA both grew out of the anti-Vietnam war movement (as did Germany's Red Army Faktion and Italy's Red Brigades).

The Red Army Faction had close connections with the PFLP, through the June 2nd Movement, whilst the Black Panthers had close ties with the Algerians.

If I remember rightly Jane Fonda 'did some propaganda' for the NVA.


Thanks for correcting me. I confused the Weather Underground with the SLA.

A fascinating subject. The SLA probably exemplify the weirdest and strangest terrorist group of all time. I've become a bit of an armchair expert on left wing terrorism in the late 60s and 70s.


A reason why there was a birth in militancy/terror in Germany in the late 60's/70's which is most fascinating is one mentioned by that young generation back then. The refusal of their parents/teachers and officials to talk about what happened during the war and their part in it. They seemed to brush it all off the older ones whilst the younger ones wanted a debate and desperately needed it.

They then took on the establishment some of them. Their anger boiling over to the point of murderous madness. Like their parents in 1944, ironically.

The shooting of Rudi Dutschke was the final straw. State suppression of protestors against the regime in Iran and Vietnam war was massively unpopular, and the unwavering support of the US military, created a massive problem - The youth of Germany saw in that a potential repeat of the late 20s early 30s, and with ex-Nazi's remaining in positions of influence, there was a lot of paranoia. Its worth remembering that there were still far right groups around in Germany, and the country was very conservative.

Its also worth remembering that groups like the Red Army Faction, 2nd June Movement, Red Cells, were a small part of a very large leftist movement, including the German Green Party (very successful) and the anti-nuclear movement (also very successful). Those other groups, really resulted in Germany becoming a much more liberal country.

At the time West Germany was 'doomed', the cold war heating up was a real fear, and that conflict would be played out in Germany.

 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
bombangabang Flag 19 Jun 14 12.28pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2014 12.16pm

Quote Kermit8 at 19 Jun 2014 11.48am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2014 9.44am

Quote legaleagle at 19 Jun 2014 12.03am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Jun 2014 11.50pm

Quote legaleagle at 18 Jun 2014 11.20pm

Quote TI-508 at 18 Jun 2014 9.32am

How many anti-Vietnam war demonstrators blew up trains and buses, killed soldiers in the streets and went off to fight for the Viet-Cong?


Well, the Weather Underground in the USA in the late 60's/early 70's (which grew out of the anti-war movement) did a fair number of bombings and kidnappings...

The Weather Underground killed four people, one by accident and three of its own members whilst assembling a bomb - It had a very strong 'no kill policy).

The Black Panther party for Self Defence however were also part of the anti-Vietnam war movement and were involved in direct violent confrontation. The BLA and SLA both grew out of the anti-Vietnam war movement (as did Germany's Red Army Faktion and Italy's Red Brigades).

The Red Army Faction had close connections with the PFLP, through the June 2nd Movement, whilst the Black Panthers had close ties with the Algerians.

If I remember rightly Jane Fonda 'did some propaganda' for the NVA.


Thanks for correcting me. I confused the Weather Underground with the SLA.

A fascinating subject. The SLA probably exemplify the weirdest and strangest terrorist group of all time. I've become a bit of an armchair expert on left wing terrorism in the late 60s and 70s.


A reason why there was a birth in militancy/terror in Germany in the late 60's/70's which is most fascinating is one mentioned by that young generation back then. The refusal of their parents/teachers and officials to talk about what happened during the war and their part in it. They seemed to brush it all off the older ones whilst the younger ones wanted a debate and desperately needed it.

They then took on the establishment some of them. Their anger boiling over to the point of murderous madness. Like their parents in 1944, ironically.

The shooting of Rudi Dutschke was the final straw. State suppression of protestors against the regime in Iran and Vietnam war was massively unpopular, and the unwavering support of the US military, created a massive problem - The youth of Germany saw in that a potential repeat of the late 20s early 30s, and with ex-Nazi's remaining in positions of influence, there was a lot of paranoia. Its worth remembering that there were still far right groups around in Germany, and the country was very conservative.

Its also worth remembering that groups like the Red Army Faction, 2nd June Movement, Red Cells, were a small part of a very large leftist movement, including the German Green Party (very successful) and the anti-nuclear movement (also very successful). Those other groups, really resulted in Germany becoming a much more liberal country.

At the time West Germany was 'doomed', the cold war heating up was a real fear, and that conflict would be played out in Germany.

Germany became a much more liberal country despite the existence of these groups.

 
ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Jun 14 1.16pm

All major religions have at their core an intolerance of other religions. This intolerance can range from thinking other religious beliefs are weak or simply incompatible to society, to outright hatred - sometimes the whole range of feelings can exist within the same religion. This is probably one of the reasons why religions are successful - 'I'm validated, you are wrong'.
Within Christianity, Islam and Judaism there are liberal elements who co-exist with other religions peacefully - sometimes without caring too much about their own religious beliefs.
However, there are also fanatics, the fundamentalists, who cannot tolerate other religions. These range from people who will not speak to, do business with, or allow marriage with people of other religious creeds to downright fruitcakes who will lop off someone's head for the sake of their religious beliefs.
I suppose that is a bit like National-Socialism where democracy was seen as weak, whilst Communism was seen as punishable by death. Anti-Semitism was a popular device used to get the Nazis votes - I doubt they thought it would ever pan out the way it did initially.
There were also clearly liberal Nazis who would at the very least not get involved in atrocities and there were fanatical Nazis who would do anything to get involved in atrocities. There are surprising atrocities in WWII, such as the killing of British prisoners in the initial stages of the war.
However, Islam is not the new Nazi for one main reason - it is pan national (and not just with a small minority of people), and it is an established religion. Nazism was perhaps elevated to the status of pseudo-religious by the krauts but could in no way be considered a major world belief system. Although governments did have real worries about the spread of Nazism it never got much further than being followed by a small number of disaffected intelligentsia, except in Germany where the people seemed only too willing to give up their basic rights to have a sense of greatness and belonging again - no matter how stupid they looked in their scout uniforms and with their funny salutes.

 

Red and Blue Army!
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jun 14 1.52pm

Quote bombangabang at 19 Jun 2014 12.28pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2014 12.16pm

Quote Kermit8 at 19 Jun 2014 11.48am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 Jun 2014 9.44am

Quote legaleagle at 19 Jun 2014 12.03am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Jun 2014 11.50pm

Quote legaleagle at 18 Jun 2014 11.20pm

Quote TI-508 at 18 Jun 2014 9.32am

How many anti-Vietnam war demonstrators blew up trains and buses, killed soldiers in the streets and went off to fight for the Viet-Cong?


Well, the Weather Underground in the USA in the late 60's/early 70's (which grew out of the anti-war movement) did a fair number of bombings and kidnappings...

The Weather Underground killed four people, one by accident and three of its own members whilst assembling a bomb - It had a very strong 'no kill policy).

The Black Panther party for Self Defence however were also part of the anti-Vietnam war movement and were involved in direct violent confrontation. The BLA and SLA both grew out of the anti-Vietnam war movement (as did Germany's Red Army Faktion and Italy's Red Brigades).

The Red Army Faction had close connections with the PFLP, through the June 2nd Movement, whilst the Black Panthers had close ties with the Algerians.

If I remember rightly Jane Fonda 'did some propaganda' for the NVA.


Thanks for correcting me. I confused the Weather Underground with the SLA.

A fascinating subject. The SLA probably exemplify the weirdest and strangest terrorist group of all time. I've become a bit of an armchair expert on left wing terrorism in the late 60s and 70s.


A reason why there was a birth in militancy/terror in Germany in the late 60's/70's which is most fascinating is one mentioned by that young generation back then. The refusal of their parents/teachers and officials to talk about what happened during the war and their part in it. They seemed to brush it all off the older ones whilst the younger ones wanted a debate and desperately needed it.

They then took on the establishment some of them. Their anger boiling over to the point of murderous madness. Like their parents in 1944, ironically.

The shooting of Rudi Dutschke was the final straw. State suppression of protestors against the regime in Iran and Vietnam war was massively unpopular, and the unwavering support of the US military, created a massive problem - The youth of Germany saw in that a potential repeat of the late 20s early 30s, and with ex-Nazi's remaining in positions of influence, there was a lot of paranoia. Its worth remembering that there were still far right groups around in Germany, and the country was very conservative.

Its also worth remembering that groups like the Red Army Faction, 2nd June Movement, Red Cells, were a small part of a very large leftist movement, including the German Green Party (very successful) and the anti-nuclear movement (also very successful). Those other groups, really resulted in Germany becoming a much more liberal country.

At the time West Germany was 'doomed', the cold war heating up was a real fear, and that conflict would be played out in Germany.

Germany became a much more liberal country despite the existence of these groups.

The Green and the Anti-Nuclear movements?


 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
Stirlingsays Flag 19 Jun 14 2.11pm

Quote ASCPFC at 19 Jun 2014 1.16pm

All major religions have at their core an intolerance of other religions. This intolerance can range from thinking other religious beliefs are weak or simply incompatible to society, to outright hatred - sometimes the whole range of feelings can exist within the same religion. This is probably one of the reasons why religions are successful - 'I'm validated, you are wrong'.
Within Christianity, Islam and Judaism there are liberal elements who co-exist with other religions peacefully - sometimes without caring too much about their own religious beliefs.
However, there are also fanatics, the fundamentalists, who cannot tolerate other religions. These range from people who will not speak to, do business with, or allow marriage with people of other religious creeds to downright fruitcakes who will lop off someone's head for the sake of their religious beliefs.
I suppose that is a bit like National-Socialism where democracy was seen as weak, whilst Communism was seen as punishable by death. Anti-Semitism was a popular device used to get the Nazis votes - I doubt they thought it would ever pan out the way it did initially.
There were also clearly liberal Nazis who would at the very least not get involved in atrocities and there were fanatical Nazis who would do anything to get involved in atrocities. There are surprising atrocities in WWII, such as the killing of British prisoners in the initial stages of the war.
However, Islam is not the new Nazi for one main reason - it is pan national (and not just with a small minority of people), and it is an established religion. Nazism was perhaps elevated to the status of pseudo-religious by the krauts but could in no way be considered a major world belief system. Although governments did have real worries about the spread of Nazism it never got much further than being followed by a small number of disaffected intelligentsia, except in Germany where the people seemed only too willing to give up their basic rights to have a sense of greatness and belonging again - no matter how stupid they looked in their scout uniforms and with their funny salutes.


Excellent post.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
blind eagle Flag Covington.Tennessee 19 Jun 14 3.27pm

Yes radical Islam is going to f**k us but good if we don not clear them out once and for all!.

 
Superfly Flag The sun always shines in Catford 19 Jun 14 3.37pm

Can I get a Hell Yeah?

 

Lend me a Tenor

31 May to 3 June 2017

John McIntosh Arts Centre
London Oratory School
SW6 1RX

with Superfly in the chorus
[Link]
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jun 14 4.17pm

Quote blind eagle at 19 Jun 2014 3.27pm

Yes radical Islam is going to f**k us but good if we don not clear them out once and for all!.

I don't think they go in for that man on man thing. 24 is aint.


 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 19 Jun 14 7.21pm

Quote dannyh at 18 Jun 2014 6.34pm

Something tells me that won't be Peffers

I don't normally like birds with acne, but she does say "hi".


 

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
legaleagle Flag 19 Jun 14 7.49pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 19 Jun 2014 2.11pm

Quote ASCPFC at 19 Jun 2014 1.16pm

All major religions have at their core an intolerance of other religions. This intolerance can range from thinking other religious beliefs are weak or simply incompatible to society, to outright hatred - sometimes the whole range of feelings can exist within the same religion. This is probably one of the reasons why religions are successful - 'I'm validated, you are wrong'.
Within Christianity, Islam and Judaism there are liberal elements who co-exist with other religions peacefully - sometimes without caring too much about their own religious beliefs.
However, there are also fanatics, the fundamentalists, who cannot tolerate other religions. These range from people who will not speak to, do business with, or allow marriage with people of other religious creeds to downright fruitcakes who will lop off someone's head for the sake of their religious beliefs.
I suppose that is a bit like National-Socialism where democracy was seen as weak, whilst Communism was seen as punishable by death. Anti-Semitism was a popular device used to get the Nazis votes - I doubt they thought it would ever pan out the way it did initially.
There were also clearly liberal Nazis who would at the very least not get involved in atrocities and there were fanatical Nazis who would do anything to get involved in atrocities. There are surprising atrocities in WWII, such as the killing of British prisoners in the initial stages of the war.
However, Islam is not the new Nazi for one main reason - it is pan national (and not just with a small minority of people), and it is an established religion. Nazism was perhaps elevated to the status of pseudo-religious by the krauts but could in no way be considered a major world belief system. Although governments did have real worries about the spread of Nazism it never got much further than being followed by a small number of disaffected intelligentsia, except in Germany where the people seemed only too willing to give up their basic rights to have a sense of greatness and belonging again - no matter how stupid they looked in their scout uniforms and with their funny salutes.


Yes, you are right. Whatever else Islam may or may not be (or whatever else its more extreme adherents may or not be)its fundamentally (no pun intended) different to National Socialism in that, apart from anything else, Islam is based on membership who becomes a believer to anyone regardless of race, nationality, whereas what underpins National Socialism is the racial superiority of the particular race/nation in question

One point, though, if you read Mein Kampf (not recommended!), its pretty clear what the logical consequence of Hitler's anti semitic world view was. Anti Semitism was not a vote winng tactic that went wrong...The Jews were the "enemy within" polluting the pure and good German race and responsible for all its problems, to be expunged for the glory of the Volk.

 
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 20 Jun 14 12.17pm

[Link]

An erudite chap if ever there was one...

 
Schuloff Flag Hackney 20 Jun 14 12.25pm

Apologies if already mentioned... 18 June 2014 Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell, the Father of the House of Commons, standing as an MP since 1959 has invoked a law last applied in 1806 to impeach Tony Blair for "Lying to the House" for the reasons for going to war with Iraq.
The screws are tightening.

 
Stirlingsays Flag 20 Jun 14 12.36pm

Quote Schuloff at 20 Jun 2014 12.25pm

Apologies if already mentioned... 18 June 2014 Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell, the Father of the House of Commons, standing as an MP since 1959 has invoked a law last applied in 1806 to impeach Tony Blair for "Lying to the House" for the reasons for going to war with Iraq.
The screws are tightening.


No they aren't.....It isn't going to happen.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Schuloff Flag Hackney 20 Jun 14 12.43pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2014 12.36pm

Quote Schuloff at 20 Jun 2014 12.25pm

Apologies if already mentioned... 18 June 2014 Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell, the Father of the House of Commons, standing as an MP since 1959 has invoked a law last applied in 1806 to impeach Tony Blair for "Lying to the House" for the reasons for going to war with Iraq.
The screws are tightening.


No they aren't.....It isn't going to happen.



Given time, and time accelerates, Blair will be brought to book, currently the chapter is headed ISIS.

 
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 20 Jun 14 12.44pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2014 12.36pm

Quote Schuloff at 20 Jun 2014 12.25pm

Apologies if already mentioned... 18 June 2014 Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell, the Father of the House of Commons, standing as an MP since 1959 has invoked a law last applied in 1806 to impeach Tony Blair for "Lying to the House" for the reasons for going to war with Iraq.
The screws are tightening.


No they aren't.....It isn't going to happen.

[Link] there's a bounty for his head!

 
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 20 Jun 14 12.46pm

I think that the likes of the EDL and Britain First represent more of a threat than Islam. Whils extremist militant islamists might represent a threat to a small number of the UK population, the kind of popularism groups like the EDL and Britain First garner from exploiting peoples fears is far closer to the threat 'New Nazi'.

The UK will never really ever be overly influenced by Islam, simply because so few of the population are Muslims, so radical islamist movements, even less so (as they're a minority among muslims in the UK).

Britian First, putting a different foriegn religeous agenda ahead of the minimal threat of a foriegn religeous agenda, seem to have gained a lot of popularity recently, particually with people who'd never think of supporting a Far Right Christian Fundermentalist group.

 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 20 Jun 14 12.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jun 2014 12.44pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2014 12.36pm

Quote Schuloff at 20 Jun 2014 12.25pm

Apologies if already mentioned... 18 June 2014 Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell, the Father of the House of Commons, standing as an MP since 1959 has invoked a law last applied in 1806 to impeach Tony Blair for "Lying to the House" for the reasons for going to war with Iraq.
The screws are tightening.


No they aren't.....It isn't going to happen.

[Link] there's a bounty for his head!

I'd do it for a Double Decker.


 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
Stirlingsays Flag 20 Jun 14 12.51pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jun 2014 12.44pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2014 12.36pm

Quote Schuloff at 20 Jun 2014 12.25pm

Apologies if already mentioned... 18 June 2014 Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell, the Father of the House of Commons, standing as an MP since 1959 has invoked a law last applied in 1806 to impeach Tony Blair for "Lying to the House" for the reasons for going to war with Iraq.
The screws are tightening.


No they aren't.....It isn't going to happen.

[Link] there's a bounty for his head!


That site is nothing but a confederacy of fools.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 20 Jun 14 12.53pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 Jun 2014 12.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jun 2014 12.44pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jun 2014 12.36pm

Quote Schuloff at 20 Jun 2014 12.25pm

Apologies if already mentioned... 18 June 2014 Tory MP Sir Peter Tapsell, the Father of the House of Commons, standing as an MP since 1959 has invoked a law last applied in 1806 to impeach Tony Blair for "Lying to the House" for the reasons for going to war with Iraq.
The screws are tightening.


No they aren't.....It isn't going to happen.

[Link] there's a bounty for his head!

I'd do it for a Double Decker.


I thought you were more a finger of fudge man.

 
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 20 Jun 14 12.56pm

from Britain Furst...

10463045_743868722355195_5444567405856598366_n.jpg Attachment: 10463045_743868722355195_5444567405856598366_n.jpg (37.77Kb)

 
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