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Is Islam, the new Nazi ?

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 17 Jun 14 1.00pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

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The muslims I have met, and working in london schools I meet quite a few, are all intolerant of muslim extremism and ashamed of what happens in the name of Allah and the prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him.
These are yer ordinary run of the mill muslims (therefore mainstream in my book) that vastly outnumber the fanatics and extremists.

Sure, there are a lot of reformist Muslims in the UK.....But again, you're not recognising that mainstream Islamic belief does also carry a lot of support for apostasy and Sharia law as well. Enough to call it mainstream.

Did you see many Islamic people complaining about the schools in Birmingham? I'm sure there are some but their are pretty quiet to me.

Like I say Nick, read Irshad Manji.....She is a Muslim and she tells it like it is......Maybe you should listen.

There's a lot more than meets the eye to the Trojan horse affair - enough to warrant its own thread. All sides are in some respect culpable.

I shall check out the Irshad Manji, thanks for the heads up.

I think you should worry a little less about muslims and more about what this current lot in power are doing to our way of life.


Because, of course, David Cameron has walked into a tube train and let off a bomb.

Your apologist dogma makes me sick.


apologist dogma! Total bs.


No, please, don't hide behind your 'everyone who agrees with the status quo is a 'cund' dogma.

Please explain to me how David Cameron makes people blow up tube trains. Please explain how David Cameron makes middle class Asian kids go to Syria and kill people not aligned to their viewpoint. Please explain to me how supporting an outdated set of ideals which makes women walk four paces behind their husband and not be allowed to have an education is somehow better than what women in Britain are allowed to have.

Please explain this and how David Cameron is responsible for all of it.


He isn't is he? You think Cameron is responsible for all of it?
Good to see you have reached d in the dictionary though.


Pathetic Gusset.


I thought it was funny. Almost as funny as you saying that I've said Cameron is responsible for terrorism. Where have I said that? You are either on a wind up or just not very clever. It's not the first time you've attributed things to me that I haven't said is it?
Show everyone where I have said Cameron is responsible for terrorism.

Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 9.22am)


Now who is twisting words.

You said that the government is more dangerous to our way of life than Muslim Extremism, followed by a typical apologist statement that you know many Muslims, all of whom abhor extremist violence.

I think both statements are bollocks and are just part of your agenda as a contrarian.

I think that ignoring the rise of Muslim extremism is very dangerous and apologists like yourself hold double standards. You profess to hate discrimination yet apologise for extremists who want to see women marginalised and gays stoned.

Hope that clears it up for you Gusset.


1. Answer the question. You said I said Cameron is responsible for all of it. Where did I say that?
2. You imply that I am lying about knowing many Muslims who abhor extremism. Is this in the same way you accused me of lying about my father's stroke a while back?
3.Where have I apologised for extremists? I may have spoken for Muslims who abhor extremism but have never defended extremist Muslims. If I have, please show us.
4. I do think that successive governments have been detrimental to the way of life for a lot of people with their neoliberal agenda. I am not alone. Come and speak to other like minded people on Saturday at 1pm.Portland Place.


Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 11.48am)

Here we go.

The problem is Gusset, it is very difficult to believe someone who trots out the classic racists excuse 'some of my friends are [enter ethnicity to suit argument]'. I am not saying you are a racist before you twist that, I am saying your argument is cliched.

I have answered about the Cameron comment and you either don't wish to understand what I said or understand it.

You are apologising for extremists. You state that the government is more dangerous than extremists to our way of life. That is total bollocks.

Gusset, you are a middle class contrarian rebelling against the state because you want too. Your argument on this subject, like so many others, do not stand up to scrutiny. However, sticking your head in the sand is your business and your choice.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 17 Jun 14 1.03pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am

I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years.

Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty.

pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you.

Top 10 terrorists groups worldwide in 2012.

6 were Islamic fundamentalist types

4 were not (FARC,PKK, Indian Maoist, FLNC)


Edited by Kermit8 (17 Jun 2014 11.56am)

Do you remember your rant about UKIP where you said the problem would be in ten years time when millions of racists will be unleashed into the political hierarchy as a result of voting for Nigel Farage?

Do you not apply the same logic to Muslim extremism or does that not count for some reason?

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View ghosteagle's Profile ghosteagle Flag 17 Jun 14 1.07pm Send a Private Message to ghosteagle Add ghosteagle as a friend

Think this thread might have run its course. Interesting at the beginning, but has devolved into another childish 'he said, she said' saga.

 

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View richard shaw (og)65's Profile richard shaw (og)65 Flag my minds eye 17 Jun 14 1.07pm Send a Private Message to richard shaw (og)65 Add richard shaw (og)65 as a friend

anyone mentioned the reason why us and the rest of the western world get involved in this is to secure the supply of oil ?

 


interviewer " iggy , do you think you influenced anybody?"
iggy pop " I think I wiped out the 60`S "

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 17 Jun 14 1.14pm

Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 1.00pm

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 11.45am

Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 11.35am

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 9.10am

Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 5.41am

Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2014 11.11pm

Quote matt_himself at 16 Jun 2014 10.53pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2014 10.15pm

Quote matt_himself at 16 Jun 2014 10.13pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2014 9.44pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 Jun 2014 9.42pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2014 9.32pm

The muslims I have met, and working in london schools I meet quite a few, are all intolerant of muslim extremism and ashamed of what happens in the name of Allah and the prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him.
These are yer ordinary run of the mill muslims (therefore mainstream in my book) that vastly outnumber the fanatics and extremists.

Sure, there are a lot of reformist Muslims in the UK.....But again, you're not recognising that mainstream Islamic belief does also carry a lot of support for apostasy and Sharia law as well. Enough to call it mainstream.

Did you see many Islamic people complaining about the schools in Birmingham? I'm sure there are some but their are pretty quiet to me.

Like I say Nick, read Irshad Manji.....She is a Muslim and she tells it like it is......Maybe you should listen.

There's a lot more than meets the eye to the Trojan horse affair - enough to warrant its own thread. All sides are in some respect culpable.

I shall check out the Irshad Manji, thanks for the heads up.

I think you should worry a little less about muslims and more about what this current lot in power are doing to our way of life.


Because, of course, David Cameron has walked into a tube train and let off a bomb.

Your apologist dogma makes me sick.


apologist dogma! Total bs.


No, please, don't hide behind your 'everyone who agrees with the status quo is a 'cund' dogma.

Please explain to me how David Cameron makes people blow up tube trains. Please explain how David Cameron makes middle class Asian kids go to Syria and kill people not aligned to their viewpoint. Please explain to me how supporting an outdated set of ideals which makes women walk four paces behind their husband and not be allowed to have an education is somehow better than what women in Britain are allowed to have.

Please explain this and how David Cameron is responsible for all of it.


He isn't is he? You think Cameron is responsible for all of it?
Good to see you have reached d in the dictionary though.


Pathetic Gusset.


I thought it was funny. Almost as funny as you saying that I've said Cameron is responsible for terrorism. Where have I said that? You are either on a wind up or just not very clever. It's not the first time you've attributed things to me that I haven't said is it?
Show everyone where I have said Cameron is responsible for terrorism.

Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 9.22am)


Now who is twisting words.

You said that the government is more dangerous to our way of life than Muslim Extremism, followed by a typical apologist statement that you know many Muslims, all of whom abhor extremist violence.

I think both statements are bollocks and are just part of your agenda as a contrarian.

I think that ignoring the rise of Muslim extremism is very dangerous and apologists like yourself hold double standards. You profess to hate discrimination yet apologise for extremists who want to see women marginalised and gays stoned.

Hope that clears it up for you Gusset.


1. Answer the question. You said I said Cameron is responsible for all of it. Where did I say that?
2. You imply that I am lying about knowing many Muslims who abhor extremism. Is this in the same way you accused me of lying about my father's stroke a while back?
3.Where have I apologised for extremists? I may have spoken for Muslims who abhor extremism but have never defended extremist Muslims. If I have, please show us.
4. I do think that successive governments have been detrimental to the way of life for a lot of people with their neoliberal agenda. I am not alone. Come and speak to other like minded people on Saturday at 1pm.Portland Place.


Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 11.48am)

Here we go.

The problem is Gusset, it is very difficult to believe someone who trots out the classic racists excuse 'some of my friends are [enter ethnicity to suit argument]'. I am not saying you are a racist before you twist that, I am saying your argument is cliched.

I have answered about the Cameron comment and you either don't wish to understand what I said or understand it.

You are apologising for extremists. You state that the government is more dangerous than extremists to our way of life. That is total bollocks.

Gusset, you are a middle class contrarian rebelling against the state because you want too. Your argument on this subject, like so many others, do not stand up to scrutiny. However, sticking your head in the sand is your business and your choice.

Forgive my ignorance, but can you repost your response about Cameron, I can't seem to find it.

 

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View reborn's Profile reborn 17 Jun 14 1.16pm Send a Private Message to reborn Add reborn as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 16 Jun 2014 2.17pm

Quote dannyh at 16 Jun 2014 1.57pm

Quote Kermit8 at 16 Jun 2014 10.07am

I suppose if Adolf were alive today with a bushy beard and having been brought up in Algeria his 1930's speeches about land and race and superiority could effortlessly be mirrored today with him shouting about the greatness of a Maghreb Union, killing Infidels and the one God Allah.

But, then again, if he'd been born an Ultra-Orthodox Jew or a fundamentalist Christian or militant Buddhist then he could also be talking about ideological/religious enemies, land grabs and other Gods in terms of acceptable violence against those who beg to differ.

An extreme nutter is an extreme nutter whatever their hue.

Worse case scenario is a massive fundamentalist Muslim link up from pakistan all the way to Morocco.

Is it a big problem for us if that did happen?

Could just leave them to it and forget about democratising them.

Only about 750million Muslims who aren't nutters would want to come here.


Just so happens they all (mostly) appear to be Muslim these days, so your previous paragraph is nonsense, to be blunt.


Central African Rep - Christian extremists are killing others. Buddhists killing muslims in Burma and Sri Lanka. India kicks off from all angles once in a while as we know.

So whilst the vast majority of religious nutters threatening the west are of a wahabi influenced muslim persuasion there are other religious groups who are not muslim but are engaging in similar acts in Asia and Africa. Namely the killing of people who are not like them. They be religious nutters too and no point in pretending otherwise just because there are more Muslim ones.


Edited by Kermit8 (16 Jun 2014 2.18pm)

I think even I as a Christian can confirm there are nutters of all persuasion Kerm, but there is clearly a much bigger problem with Islam right now, and around the world as well.


 


My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

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View reborn's Profile reborn 17 Jun 14 1.19pm Send a Private Message to reborn Add reborn as a friend

Quote fareham eagle at 16 Jun 2014 4.14pm

Rather than liken Islam to Nazism, it is probably more accurate to draw parallels to the western past in general. It seems to me that Christianity, centuries ago, carried out much the same sort of atrocities, i.e. Catholic/Protestant & Christianity/Islam. As a race we seem to be incapable of learning the lessons of our own past.
Until human beings realise that all religion is nothing more than superstitious claptrap based, primarily, on the fear that death means ceasing to exist, "believers" will continue to forcibly inflict their views on others in total disregard to the teachings of their religions.


People do that anyway, Nazis, Communism etc, far more people are killed in the name of something other than religion (indeed often nothing), than are ever killed by people cloaking themselves in distorted religious ideology.

 


My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 17 Jun 14 1.25pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 12.07pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Jun 2014 11.59am

Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am

I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years.

Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty.

pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you.


I was working right near Liverpool station when the Bishopsgate bomb went off....My brother did two tours in NI...So that reference is really quite annoying Kermit and in my case quite wrong.

Your post is atypical of those on the left who push forward the approach that Islamic extremism here is overblown.

It's a problem here....much more than for any other religion and us taxpayers have to pay through the nose for our security services to watch British Islamic nutters.

I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a problem with muslim extremism. But I do think that reaction to it is overblown. Much in the same way that Orwell used 2 minutes hate towards Emmanuel Goldstein in 1984.
Get people riled about Muslims (and plenty of people profess to hate all muslims-a look through the Britain First pages on facebook will back me up) and it will deflect attention from the austerity led ideology of party politics.


You don't half make some ridiculous conclusions.

We're leading growth in the G7, but this time we're not pissing the money away.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View ghosteagle's Profile ghosteagle Flag 17 Jun 14 1.32pm Send a Private Message to ghosteagle Add ghosteagle as a friend

--We're leading growth in the G7, but this time we're not pissing the money away.--

As the gap between rich and poor continues to grow along with the concentration of capital this 'growth' is meaningless to all but the very top rung of society. And no, they aren't giving away any of it.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 17 Jun 14 1.34pm

Quote Stuk at 17 Jun 2014 1.25pm

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 12.07pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Jun 2014 11.59am

Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am

I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years.

Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty.

pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you.


I was working right near Liverpool station when the Bishopsgate bomb went off....My brother did two tours in NI...So that reference is really quite annoying Kermit and in my case quite wrong.

Your post is atypical of those on the left who push forward the approach that Islamic extremism here is overblown.

It's a problem here....much more than for any other religion and us taxpayers have to pay through the nose for our security services to watch British Islamic nutters.

I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a problem with muslim extremism. But I do think that reaction to it is overblown. Much in the same way that Orwell used 2 minutes hate towards Emmanuel Goldstein in 1984.
Get people riled about Muslims (and plenty of people profess to hate all muslims-a look through the Britain First pages on facebook will back me up) and it will deflect attention from the austerity led ideology of party politics.


You don't half make some ridiculous conclusions.

We're leading growth in the G7, but this time we're not pissing the money away.


I disagree. I think that fearmongering and promoting Islamophobia is being used as a political tool.

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 17 Jun 14 1.54pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 1.34pm

Quote Stuk at 17 Jun 2014 1.25pm

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 12.07pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 17 Jun 2014 11.59am

Quote Kermit8 at 17 Jun 2014 11.48am

I don't know how some of you lot would have coped in the 70's with IRA bombs going off in London every other month for years.

Muslim extremism is a hundred times the danger to other muslims in their own country than it is to us lot in Blighty.

pakistan, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan - pity those poor tens of millions of souls wanting a peaceful family life not conflict and stop wetting yer pants about something that is not going to happen to you.


I was working right near Liverpool station when the Bishopsgate bomb went off....My brother did two tours in NI...So that reference is really quite annoying Kermit and in my case quite wrong.

Your post is atypical of those on the left who push forward the approach that Islamic extremism here is overblown.

It's a problem here....much more than for any other religion and us taxpayers have to pay through the nose for our security services to watch British Islamic nutters.

I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a problem with muslim extremism. But I do think that reaction to it is overblown. Much in the same way that Orwell used 2 minutes hate towards Emmanuel Goldstein in 1984.
Get people riled about Muslims (and plenty of people profess to hate all muslims-a look through the Britain First pages on facebook will back me up) and it will deflect attention from the austerity led ideology of party politics.


You don't half make some ridiculous conclusions.

We're leading growth in the G7, but this time we're not pissing the money away.


I disagree. I think that fearmongering and promoting Islamophobia is being used as a political tool.


Then you are paranoid.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 17 Jun 14 1.55pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 1.14pm

Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 1.00pm

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 11.45am

Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 11.35am

Quote nickgusset at 17 Jun 2014 9.10am

Quote matt_himself at 17 Jun 2014 5.41am

Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2014 11.11pm

Quote matt_himself at 16 Jun 2014 10.53pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2014 10.15pm

Quote matt_himself at 16 Jun 2014 10.13pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2014 9.44pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 Jun 2014 9.42pm

Quote nickgusset at 16 Jun 2014 9.32pm

The muslims I have met, and working in london schools I meet quite a few, are all intolerant of muslim extremism and ashamed of what happens in the name of Allah and the prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him.
These are yer ordinary run of the mill muslims (therefore mainstream in my book) that vastly outnumber the fanatics and extremists.

Sure, there are a lot of reformist Muslims in the UK.....But again, you're not recognising that mainstream Islamic belief does also carry a lot of support for apostasy and Sharia law as well. Enough to call it mainstream.

Did you see many Islamic people complaining about the schools in Birmingham? I'm sure there are some but their are pretty quiet to me.

Like I say Nick, read Irshad Manji.....She is a Muslim and she tells it like it is......Maybe you should listen.

There's a lot more than meets the eye to the Trojan horse affair - enough to warrant its own thread. All sides are in some respect culpable.

I shall check out the Irshad Manji, thanks for the heads up.

I think you should worry a little less about muslims and more about what this current lot in power are doing to our way of life.


Because, of course, David Cameron has walked into a tube train and let off a bomb.

Your apologist dogma makes me sick.


apologist dogma! Total bs.


No, please, don't hide behind your 'everyone who agrees with the status quo is a 'cund' dogma.

Please explain to me how David Cameron makes people blow up tube trains. Please explain how David Cameron makes middle class Asian kids go to Syria and kill people not aligned to their viewpoint. Please explain to me how supporting an outdated set of ideals which makes women walk four paces behind their husband and not be allowed to have an education is somehow better than what women in Britain are allowed to have.

Please explain this and how David Cameron is responsible for all of it.


He isn't is he? You think Cameron is responsible for all of it?
Good to see you have reached d in the dictionary though.


Pathetic Gusset.


I thought it was funny. Almost as funny as you saying that I've said Cameron is responsible for terrorism. Where have I said that? You are either on a wind up or just not very clever. It's not the first time you've attributed things to me that I haven't said is it?
Show everyone where I have said Cameron is responsible for terrorism.

Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 9.22am)


Now who is twisting words.

You said that the government is more dangerous to our way of life than Muslim Extremism, followed by a typical apologist statement that you know many Muslims, all of whom abhor extremist violence.

I think both statements are bollocks and are just part of your agenda as a contrarian.

I think that ignoring the rise of Muslim extremism is very dangerous and apologists like yourself hold double standards. You profess to hate discrimination yet apologise for extremists who want to see women marginalised and gays stoned.

Hope that clears it up for you Gusset.


1. Answer the question. You said I said Cameron is responsible for all of it. Where did I say that?
2. You imply that I am lying about knowing many Muslims who abhor extremism. Is this in the same way you accused me of lying about my father's stroke a while back?
3.Where have I apologised for extremists? I may have spoken for Muslims who abhor extremism but have never defended extremist Muslims. If I have, please show us.
4. I do think that successive governments have been detrimental to the way of life for a lot of people with their neoliberal agenda. I am not alone. Come and speak to other like minded people on Saturday at 1pm.Portland Place.


Edited by nickgusset (17 Jun 2014 11.48am)

Here we go.

The problem is Gusset, it is very difficult to believe someone who trots out the classic racists excuse 'some of my friends are [enter ethnicity to suit argument]'. I am not saying you are a racist before you twist that, I am saying your argument is cliched.

I have answered about the Cameron comment and you either don't wish to understand what I said or understand it.

You are apologising for extremists. You state that the government is more dangerous than extremists to our way of life. That is total bollocks.

Gusset, you are a middle class contrarian rebelling against the state because you want too. Your argument on this subject, like so many others, do not stand up to scrutiny. However, sticking your head in the sand is your business and your choice.

Forgive my ignorance, but can you repost your response about Cameron, I can't seem to find it.

Are you broken or ignorant or trying to wind me up?

The latter isn't working. Re read it. I have never said you said that about Cameron. I was using language and a scenario to point out that your position of 'the government being more dangerous than extremists' was typical Gusset anal discharge.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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