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Post EU World
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  SW19 CPFC  Addiscombe West 26 Jan 21 1.51pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
It would have been different as we would now be in the queue the same as the other 27 countries. Being blackmailed in some capacity. Maybe once we are nearly all done with vaccines the uk can blackmail the EU for better terms. Karma the bitch The entire agreement including procurement was arranged under the (now old) EU rules. So it doesn't appear that Brexit has had anything to do with it, at least from a regulatory perspective, but from a political one, sure. Obviously it's complete hearsay but perhaps we'd have pressed on regardless unlike the Germans who pulled back under EU pressure. Makes more sense for them to back out as they're the most influential country in the union, so to be seen gaming vaccine delivery vs. your partners is not a particularly good look for the whole project. One swallow and all that though, everything else in the short term is about to fall on its arse
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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Teddy Eagle  26 Jan 21 2.09pm |
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A view from Germany.
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| chris123 hove actually 26 Jan 21 2.19pm |
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That was from 6 weeks ago - and I'm not sure if things are much changed.
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| Matov 26 Jan 21 2.38pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
That was from 6 weeks ago - and I'm not sure if things are much changed. Its a case of a classic over-reach by the EU. Vaccination programmes are primarily a logistics exercise but plans have to be drawn up by a region by region basis. Even a national, one size fits all approach has its drawbacks. Demographics, infrastructure, population density, cultural expectations and a range of other factors which are best handled on a local level come into play and the EU is simply too unwieldy to coordinate all of that. The UK would probably have been better placed than most anyway but the truth is that the EU had no place in getting involved. And now it is deep in the s***. Throw in the French no doubt trying to push their own vaccine, which I understand has been now ditched, and you have a huge mess. Hence all the distraction with the attack on AZ. C'est la Covid.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 26 Jan 21 2.47pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Its a case of a classic over-reach by the EU. Vaccination programmes are primarily a logistics exercise but plans have to be drawn up by a region by region basis. Even a national, one size fits all approach has its drawbacks. Demographics, infrastructure, population density, cultural expectations and a range of other factors which are best handled on a local level come into play and the EU is simply too unwieldy to coordinate all of that. The UK would probably have been better placed than most anyway but the truth is that the EU had no place in getting involved. And now it is deep in the s***. Throw in the French no doubt trying to push their own vaccine, which I understand has been now ditched, and you have a huge mess. Hence all the distraction with the attack on AZ. C'est la Covid. According to the German article the EU didn't confirm their orders until November. Now the are talking about fair access!
One more point |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Jan 21 3.33pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
Has the AZ been approved yet? The final meeting is due for this Friday.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Eaglecoops CR3 26 Jan 21 3.42pm |
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I find it incredible that some countries can approve a vaccine and others not. It’s either safe or it isn’t, so why the prevarication?
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| Matov 26 Jan 21 3.45pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
I find it incredible that some countries can approve a vaccine and others not. It’s either safe or it isn’t, so why the prevarication?
Thankfully the Commissioners who run the EU can be voted ou.....doh!
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| chris123 hove actually 26 Jan 21 3.48pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
I find it incredible that some countries can approve a vaccine and others not. It’s either safe or it isn’t, so why the prevarication? And on the supply side - interesting for AZ get heat from the EU whilst the vaccine is still yet to be approved.
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| Eaglecoops CR3 26 Jan 21 3.56pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
And on the supply side - interesting for AZ get heat from the EU whilst the vaccine is still yet to be approved. Indeed!
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| Matov 26 Jan 21 5.34pm |
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Originally posted by The Dolphin
Be interested to see if there are any legal challenges because the contract, from what I understand, clearly makes provision for delays. Not sure it is a great strategy over-all for the EU to start imposing controls on private companies because it is hardly encouraging for future investment.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| chris123 hove actually 26 Jan 21 5.38pm |
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Originally posted by The Dolphin
The Robert Peston tweet is good reading. I think some Pfizer is manufactured in Belgium, but most is produced in the US.
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| davenotamonkey 27 Jan 21 1.09am |
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Originally posted by chris123
I think some Pfizer is manufactured in Belgium, but most is produced in the US. Yes, for the European (not EUropean) market. But guess which company it gets vital ingredients from for the vaccince, and where is it based? "It will be produced at sites in the UK and US." This afternoon, Boris said the following. Many probably judged it as a plea. It's not, it's a threat. Emphasis my own: “So I don't want to see restrictions on the supply of PPE, drugs or vaccines or their ingredients across borders.” If the EU restrict exports of Pfizer, the UK should restrict exports of the high-purity lipids used in production of the Pfizer vaccine. I literally f***ing dare them. Meanwhile (and this is particularly important), here is Astra-Zeneca's CEO robustly rebutting the EU claims in a very in-depth interview: In this interview, he essentially confirms the Peston (yuk, spit) series of tweets. He also states that: - The UK production plants are much more efficient than the Continental plants. This is because they had a 3 month headstart (why was that?) and have ironed out the kinks in production. - The UK approach of delay between doses is, if anything, better than the existing prescription, and is definitely the best way to proceed. - The EU does not have a legal leg to stand on in terms of litigation. But he's being kind and ascribing it to the EU being "tired and emotional". - The agreement with UKgov was focussed on supply, not (as the case with the EU) price (given it's a non-profit venture anyway). To that end, the UK supply is safeguarded against EU actions.
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| Matov 27 Jan 21 8.14am |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
This afternoon, Boris said the following. Many probably judged it as a plea. It's not, it's a threat. Emphasis my own: “So I don't want to see restrictions on the supply of PPE, drugs or vaccines or their ingredients across borders.” If the EU restrict exports of Pfizer, the UK should restrict exports of the high-purity lipids used in production of the Pfizer vaccine. I literally f***ing dare them. Meanwhile (and this is particularly important), here is Astra-Zeneca's CEO robustly rebutting the EU claims in a very in-depth interview: In this interview, he essentially confirms the Peston (yuk, spit) series of tweets. He also states that: - The UK production plants are much more efficient than the Continental plants. This is because they had a 3 month headstart (why was that?) and have ironed out the kinks in production. - The UK approach of delay between doses is, if anything, better than the existing prescription, and is definitely the best way to proceed. - The EU does not have a legal leg to stand on in terms of litigation. But he's being kind and ascribing it to the EU being "tired and emotional". - The agreement with UKgov was focussed on supply, not (as the case with the EU) price (given it's a non-profit venture anyway). To that end, the UK supply is safeguarded against EU actions. A really interesting and insightful couple of days here. Essentially the EU tried to bully AZ and it stood up to them, along with the UK playing it all rather laid back. But it essentially boils down to why the EU are so threatened by the UK it cannot control. The UK can act faster and more decisively. One of the many reasons why I have always struggled to understand why Remoaners were/are so in thrall to the EU is that it is a s*** organisation. Badly managed, staffed with utter incompetents and generally just rubbish. Look at that utter farce with the entire circus having to up sticks every month and move to Strasbourg for 4 days. Perhaps you could make a weak argument for perhaps having a second parliament building out to the east by way of trying to promote a sense of cohesion but Strasbourg? Effectively just down the road from Brussels. Utterly ludicrous and whilst in the bigger scheme of things the cost is trifling, in terms of the symbolism, the kind of crap you would not make up in fiction. I have always said that there is an argument to be made for a federalised Europe. And that I am all ears. But the EU needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. With a completely different political class at the helm. Not this bunch of third rate left-wing bureaucrats.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 27 Jan 21 9.14am |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
Yes, for the European (not EUropean) market. But guess which company it gets vital ingredients from for the vaccince, and where is it based? "It will be produced at sites in the UK and US." This afternoon, Boris said the following. Many probably judged it as a plea. It's not, it's a threat. Emphasis my own: “So I don't want to see restrictions on the supply of PPE, drugs or vaccines or their ingredients across borders.” If the EU restrict exports of Pfizer, the UK should restrict exports of the high-purity lipids used in production of the Pfizer vaccine. I literally f***ing dare them. Meanwhile (and this is particularly important), here is Astra-Zeneca's CEO robustly rebutting the EU claims in a very in-depth interview: In this interview, he essentially confirms the Peston (yuk, spit) series of tweets. He also states that: - The UK production plants are much more efficient than the Continental plants. This is because they had a 3 month headstart (why was that?) and have ironed out the kinks in production. - The UK approach of delay between doses is, if anything, better than the existing prescription, and is definitely the best way to proceed. - The EU does not have a legal leg to stand on in terms of litigation. But he's being kind and ascribing it to the EU being "tired and emotional". - The agreement with UKgov was focussed on supply, not (as the case with the EU) price (given it's a non-profit venture anyway). To that end, the UK supply is safeguarded against EU actions. The EU is not thinking but reacting emotionally. If they interfere with the legal business of the drug companies all it will do is signal that it is better to set up in the UK. They will become anti business.
One more point |
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| Eaglecoops CR3 27 Jan 21 9.30am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The EU is not thinking but reacting emotionally. If they interfere with the legal business of the drug companies all it will do is signal that it is better to set up in the UK. They will become anti business. I think what is more to the point is they are anti anything and everything that we do. It’s real kids out the pram stuff and I really hope their current attitude backfires on them.
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| Matov 27 Jan 21 11.45am |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
I think what is more to the point is they are anti anything and everything that we do. It’s real kids out the pram stuff and I really hope their current attitude backfires on them. My own reading is that it is more about their incompetence catching up with them, magnified in light of how our vaccination programme is going rather than a deliberate attempt to hurt the UK. Effectively we are the salt in a nasty wound. Edited by Matov (27 Jan 2021 11.46am)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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BlueJay  UK 27 Jan 21 11.51am |
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Originally posted by Matov
My own reading is that it is more about their incompetence catching up with them, magnified in light of how our vaccination programme is going rather than a deliberate attempt to hurt the UK. Effectively we are the salt in a nasty wound. Edited by Matov (27 Jan 2021 11.46am) We've certainly allows them to do a number on us with regard to UK business trading in Europe though. Duty due to technicalities about origin of items and the like, which should have been ironed out in the agreement. Some UK businesses are going to be dead in the water and distinctly noncompetitive as result. Hopefully something can be done about this as it was perfectly avoidable if the right agreement was in place. I'm half inclined to agree to your 'better to have no deal' perspective now really as at least in that situation we're truly the masters of our own destiny, rather than one foot in, and one foot out or rushed (somehow!)lopsided and limiting agreements.
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| Matov 27 Jan 21 12.26pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
I'm half inclined to agree to your 'better to have no deal' perspective now really as at least in that situation we're truly the masters of our own destiny, rather than one foot in, and one foot out or rushed (somehow!)lopsided and limiting agreements. WTO terms should have been the default position from day 1 of any talks with the desire to try and make that as workable as possible. Then if a deal manages to emerge from that great but essentially with an understanding that it was probably not likely. Suspect we would have come out of this all with a far more streamlined approach. But it is early days. Covid colours everything at the moment and was the Black(ish) Swan that nobody could really have anticipated, or at least taken into account, back in 2019.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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