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Maine Eagle USA 18 Jun 19 6.35pm
Originally posted by corkery I've smuggled enough fireworks over that border to know it's impossible to control. Local border area farmers have said that they'll allow people through their land to avoid the check points. Let's just say you have two customs officers on every crossing. That's 1000 customs officers. A customs officer is not going to into these areas without the Police so that's about another 1000 people needed. Should be a piece of piss with a giant lorry full of legally tracked goods from a major corporation. "Drive through my field, pal". I can see it now. Yes a no deal crash out of the EU would cause all kinds of problems and extra costs, including your 1000 bodies. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 18 Jun 19 6.35pm

Originally posted by corkery

I've smuggled enough fireworks over that border to know it's impossible to control. Local border area farmers have said that they'll allow people through their land to avoid the check points.

Let's just say you have two customs officers on every crossing. That's 1000 customs officers. A customs officer is not going to into these areas without the Police so that's about another 1000 people needed.

Should be a piece of piss with a giant lorry full of legally tracked goods from a major corporation.

"Drive through my field, pal". I can see it now.

Yes a no deal crash out of the EU would cause all kinds of problems and extra costs, including your 1000 bodies.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle USA 18 Jun 19 6.40pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Most people voted to stop 'freedom of movement' for obvious reasons. The parliamentary question is there but its secondary because....a good number of the politicians are corrupt and only interested in the gravy when it comes to Europe.....and those that aren't but pro EU aren't interested in keeping parliamentary primacy anyway. As you say those reasons are indeed all too obvious. Corrupt politicians....surely not Not sure Grievey is only interested in Gravy. Dominic Grieve is neither corrupt, seeking money from the association with EU or disinterested in parliamentary primacy. He simply sees leaving the EU as, on the whole, bad. I think only Dominic Raab and possibly the next PM that bumbling fool who's advisers are so scared of what he might actually do or say they wont let him join in on TV debates, are actually interested in reducing parliamentary primacy. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 18 Jun 19 6.40pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Most people voted to stop 'freedom of movement' for obvious reasons.

The parliamentary question is there but its secondary because....a good number of the politicians are corrupt and only interested in the gravy when it comes to Europe.....and those that aren't but pro EU aren't interested in keeping parliamentary primacy anyway.

As you say those reasons are indeed all too obvious.

Corrupt politicians....surely not

Not sure Grievey is only interested in Gravy.

Dominic Grieve is neither corrupt, seeking money from the association with EU or disinterested in parliamentary primacy.

He simply sees leaving the EU as, on the whole, bad.

I think only Dominic Raab and possibly the next PM that bumbling fool who's advisers are so scared of what he might actually do or say they wont let him join in on TV debates, are actually interested in reducing parliamentary primacy.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Badger11 Beckenham 18 Jun 19 6.44pm
Originally posted by corkery I've smuggled enough fireworks over that border to know it's impossible to control. Local border area farmers have said that they'll allow people through their land to avoid the check points. Let's just say you have two customs officers on every crossing. That's 1000 customs officers. A customs officer is not going to into these areas without the Police so that's about another 1000 people needed. And that's my point. Smuggling has always gone on and both governments know that. They will not admit it but they are not concerned about individuals bringing back cheap booze etc. Major exporters complete their paperwork electronically before moving their goods. What the EU and Ireland are really concerned about is that we cut VAT in which case people will vote with their feet and cross into NI to buy their stuff thus hurting their economy unless they can control and tax it. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 18 Jun 19 6.44pm

Originally posted by corkery

I've smuggled enough fireworks over that border to know it's impossible to control. Local border area farmers have said that they'll allow people through their land to avoid the check points.

And that's my point. Smuggling has always gone on and both governments know that. They will not admit it but they are not concerned about individuals bringing back cheap booze etc.

Major exporters complete their paperwork electronically before moving their goods.

What the EU and Ireland are really concerned about is that we cut VAT in which case people will vote with their feet and cross into NI to buy their stuff thus hurting their economy unless they can control and tax it.

One more point

Stirlingsays 18 Jun 19 6.45pm
Originally posted by Maine Eagle As you say those reasons are indeed all too obvious. Corrupt politicians....surely not Not sure Grievey is only interested in Gravy. Dominic Grieve is neither corrupt, seeking money from the association with EU or disinterested in parliamentary primacy. He simply sees leaving the EU as, on the whole, bad. I think only Dominic Raab and possibly the next PM that bumbling fool who's advisers are so scared of what he might actually do or say they wont let him join in on TV debates, are actually interested in reducing parliamentary primacy. No, fair enough...I think in the case of Dominic Grieve.....while I disagree with how he has chosen to represent his leave voting constituency.....no I don't consider him corrupt. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

18 Jun 19 6.45pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

As you say those reasons are indeed all too obvious.

Corrupt politicians....surely not

Not sure Grievey is only interested in Gravy.

Dominic Grieve is neither corrupt, seeking money from the association with EU or disinterested in parliamentary primacy.

He simply sees leaving the EU as, on the whole, bad.

No, fair enough...I think in the case of Dominic Grieve.....while I disagree with how he has chosen to represent his leave voting constituency.....no I don't consider him corrupt.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 18 Jun 19 6.58pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays No, fair enough...I think in the case of Dominic Grieve.....while I disagree with how he has chosen to represent his leave voting constituency.....no I don't consider him corrupt. Do you agree with how Raab has represented his remain voting constituency?

DanH

SW2 18 Jun 19 6.58pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

No, fair enough...I think in the case of Dominic Grieve.....while I disagree with how he has chosen to represent his leave voting constituency.....no I don't consider him corrupt.

Do you agree with how Raab has represented his remain voting constituency?

Stirlingsays 18 Jun 19 7.07pm
Originally posted by DanH Do you agree with how Raab has represented his remain voting constituency? It's a good question.....What were the figures? But on principle no.....I think in the case of a national referendum MPs should be acting more as delegates. However, obviously what the vote question is itself does matter..not all votes will have the question of leaving or remaining.....but in the case of a leave or remain vote, an MP should really be representing what the majority in their constituency thought.....if the vote was very close perhaps they have wiggle room but with a clear vote....not really. The 'leave or remain' nature of the politician shouldn't matter. Outside of the referendum 'leave or remain' vote I'd regard them as free of that commitment. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.09pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

18 Jun 19 7.07pm

Originally posted by DanH

Do you agree with how Raab has represented his remain voting constituency?

It's a good question.....What were the figures?

But on principle no.....I think in the case of a national referendum MPs should be acting more as delegates.

However, obviously what the vote question is itself does matter..not all votes will have the question of leaving or remaining.....but in the case of a leave or remain vote, an MP should really be representing what the majority in their constituency thought.....if the vote was very close perhaps they have wiggle room but with a clear vote....not really.

The 'leave or remain' nature of the politician shouldn't matter.

Outside of the referendum 'leave or remain' vote I'd regard them as free of that commitment.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.09pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 18 Jun 19 7.11pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's a good question.....What were the figures? But on principle no.....I think in the case of a national referendum MPs should be acting more as delegates. However, obviously what the vote question is itself does matter..not all votes will have the question of leaving or remaining.....but in the case of a leave or remain vote, an MP should really be representing what the majority in their constituency thought.....if the vote was very close perhaps they have wiggle room but with a clear vote....not really. The 'leave or remain' nature of the politician shouldn't matter. Outside of the referendum 'leave or remain' vote I'd regard them as free of that commitment. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.09pm) 58% remain. If we’re judging the strength of that vote on the ‘will of the people’ in this batsh*t mental political climate then he should be 4 times more determined to remain than leave.

DanH

SW2 18 Jun 19 7.11pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's a good question.....What were the figures?

But on principle no.....I think in the case of a national referendum MPs should be acting more as delegates.

The 'leave or remain' nature of the politician shouldn't matter.

Outside of the referendum 'leave or remain' vote I'd regard them as free of that commitment.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.09pm)

58% remain. If we’re judging the strength of that vote on the ‘will of the people’ in this batsh*t mental political climate then he should be 4 times more determined to remain than leave.

Stirlingsays 18 Jun 19 7.17pm
Originally posted by DanH 58% remain. If we’re judging the strength of that vote on the ‘will of the people’ in this batsh*t mental political climate then he should be 4 times more determined to remain than leave. Agreed. As a representative of his constituency who have specifically voted on this matter he should be. Outside of that 'leave or remain' referendum question, he is free. So once the question is what form of Brexit it is.....and not about leave or remain.....I think that commitment requirement isn't there anymore.....an interesting area and not something I've given much thought to. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.23pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

18 Jun 19 7.17pm

Originally posted by DanH

58% remain. If we’re judging the strength of that vote on the ‘will of the people’ in this batsh*t mental political climate then he should be 4 times more determined to remain than leave.

Agreed.

As a representative of his constituency who have specifically voted on this matter he should be.

Outside of that 'leave or remain' referendum question, he is free.

So once the question is what form of Brexit it is.....and not about leave or remain.....I think that commitment requirement isn't there anymore.....an interesting area and not something I've given much thought to.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.23pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 18 Jun 19 7.21pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Agreed. As a representative of his constituency who have specifically voted on this matter he should be. Outside of that 'leave or remain' question, he is free. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.20pm) I knew we’d agree on something eventually.

DanH

SW2 18 Jun 19 7.21pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Agreed.

As a representative of his constituency who have specifically voted on this matter he should be.

Outside of that 'leave or remain' question, he is free.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.20pm)

I knew we’d agree on something eventually.

Stirlingsays 18 Jun 19 7.25pm
Originally posted by DanH I knew we’d agree on something eventually. I think you'd agree with me about this bint across the road. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

18 Jun 19 7.25pm

Originally posted by DanH

I knew we’d agree on something eventually.

I think you'd agree with me about this bint across the road.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

cryrst The garden of England 18 Jun 19 8.49pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I think you'd agree with me about this bint across the road. Is she in the bank ?

cryrst

The garden of England 18 Jun 19 8.49pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think you'd agree with me about this bint across the road.

Is she in the bank ?

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Jun 19 11.41pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's a good question.....What were the figures? But on principle no.....I think in the case of a national referendum MPs should be acting more as delegates. However, obviously what the vote question is itself does matter..not all votes will have the question of leaving or remaining.....but in the case of a leave or remain vote, an MP should really be representing what the majority in their constituency thought.....if the vote was very close perhaps they have wiggle room but with a clear vote....not really. The 'leave or remain' nature of the politician shouldn't matter. Outside of the referendum 'leave or remain' vote I'd regard them as free of that commitment. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.09pm) Agreed Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 18 Jun 19 11.41pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's a good question.....What were the figures?

But on principle no.....I think in the case of a national referendum MPs should be acting more as delegates.

The 'leave or remain' nature of the politician shouldn't matter.

Outside of the referendum 'leave or remain' vote I'd regard them as free of that commitment.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.09pm)

Agreed

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Stirlingsays 18 Jun 19 11.57pm
Originally posted by cryrst Is she in the bank ? A gentleman never reveals... So na. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

18 Jun 19 11.57pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Is she in the bank ?

A gentleman never reveals...

So na.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Jun 19 9.37am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's a good question.....What were the figures? But on principle no.....I think in the case of a national referendum MPs should be acting more as delegates. However, obviously what the vote question is itself does matter..not all votes will have the question of leaving or remaining.....but in the case of a leave or remain vote, an MP should really be representing what the majority in their constituency thought.....if the vote was very close perhaps they have wiggle room but with a clear vote....not really. The 'leave or remain' nature of the politician shouldn't matter. Outside of the referendum 'leave or remain' vote I'd regard them as free of that commitment. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.09pm) The day when our MPs are required to act as delegates on any issue, no matter whether there is an overwhelming referendum result involved, is the day British Parliamentary democracy dies. MPs must always be free to act according to their conscience. If their conscience dictates that they respect a decision taken elsewhere sobeit. Indeed many have taken that decision but it should never become mandatory. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Jun 19 9.37am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's a good question.....What were the figures?

But on principle no.....I think in the case of a national referendum MPs should be acting more as delegates.

The 'leave or remain' nature of the politician shouldn't matter.

Outside of the referendum 'leave or remain' vote I'd regard them as free of that commitment.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jun 2019 7.09pm)

The day when our MPs are required to act as delegates on any issue, no matter whether there is an overwhelming referendum result involved, is the day British Parliamentary democracy dies.

MPs must always be free to act according to their conscience. If their conscience dictates that they respect a decision taken elsewhere sobeit. Indeed many have taken that decision but it should never become mandatory.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Midlands Eagle 19 Jun 19 10.12am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The day when our MPs are required to act as delegates on any issue, no matter whether there is an overwhelming referendum result involved, is the day British Parliamentary democracy dies. MPs must always be free to act according to their conscience. In the words on one particular Palace fan - cobblers

Midlands Eagle

19 Jun 19 10.12am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The day when our MPs are required to act as delegates on any issue, no matter whether there is an overwhelming referendum result involved, is the day British Parliamentary democracy dies.

MPs must always be free to act according to their conscience.

In the words on one particular Palace fan - cobblers

cpfc_chap koh samui 19 Jun 19 12.19pm
Originally posted by Maine Eagle There is no continuity of trade with a no deal exit. Thats kind of the point. The lie is not about what we pay net into the EU per month. The trade benefits of EU membership are impossible to quantify and will only be truly appreciated once we have left the EU, if we ever get around to it. The lie which dragged in a bunch of morons is that the entire saving (if it could even be quantified) would be automatically spent on the NHS, 100%. Such a simplistic and transparent lie but the brexit loving masses fell for it as they always do. As Churchill once said: "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth puts on its boots". But dont believe me on this enormous and misleading lie, listen to Nigel: [Link] BTW answering "yes" to the question "what happens to the monthly fee" is not too sound grammatically. Typo was supposed to be 2 not 3

cpfc_chap

koh samui 19 Jun 19 12.19pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

There is no continuity of trade with a no deal exit. Thats kind of the point.

The lie is not about what we pay net into the EU per month. The trade benefits of EU membership are impossible to quantify and will only be truly appreciated once we have left the EU, if we ever get around to it.

The lie which dragged in a bunch of morons is that the entire saving (if it could even be quantified) would be automatically spent on the NHS, 100%. Such a simplistic and transparent lie but the brexit loving masses fell for it as they always do.

As Churchill once said:

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth puts on its boots".

But dont believe me on this enormous and misleading lie, listen to Nigel:

[Link]

BTW answering "yes" to the question "what happens to the monthly fee" is not too sound grammatically.

Typo was supposed to be 2 not 3

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Jun 19 12.27pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle In the words on one particular Palace fan - cobblers Then you, alongside most of the hard left, don't understand how our system of representative democracy really works. The hard left think they send delegates to Parliament. Do you really want to be in that camp? For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Jun 19 12.27pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

In the words on one particular Palace fan - cobblers

Then you, alongside most of the hard left, don't understand how our system of representative democracy really works.

The hard left think they send delegates to Parliament. Do you really want to be in that camp?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Midlands Eagle 19 Jun 19 12.29pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The hard left think they send delegates to Parliament. Do you really want to be in that camp? Yes

Midlands Eagle

19 Jun 19 12.29pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The hard left think they send delegates to Parliament. Do you really want to be in that camp?

Yes

Stirlingsays 19 Jun 19 12.35pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Then you, alongside most of the hard left, don't understand how our system of representative democracy really works. The hard left think they send delegates to Parliament. Do you really want to be in that camp? This is in respect of the rare case of national referendums and not an everyday expectation. Also, this is a principle, it isn't something someone should be forced into. However, those who go against their constituency.....when it has given a clear vote...on a clear 'leave or remain' question, have a moral duty to represent that choice in parliament. Otherwise there is no point and the will of the constituency isn't listened to.....and that isn't very democratic. I think that Raab, Greive or whoever it is deserve criticism for that.....their positions as leavers or remainers would be more respected...not less. The public pay their wages....you seem to think they have little responsibility to listen to them. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Jun 2019 12.37pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Jun 19 12.35pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Then you, alongside most of the hard left, don't understand how our system of representative democracy really works.

The hard left think they send delegates to Parliament. Do you really want to be in that camp?

This is in respect of the rare case of national referendums and not an everyday expectation.

Also, this is a principle, it isn't something someone should be forced into.

However, those who go against their constituency.....when it has given a clear vote...on a clear 'leave or remain' question, have a moral duty to represent that choice in parliament.

Otherwise there is no point and the will of the constituency isn't listened to.....and that isn't very democratic.

I think that Raab, Greive or whoever it is deserve criticism for that.....their positions as leavers or remainers would be more respected...not less.

The public pay their wages....you seem to think they have little responsibility to listen to them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Jun 2019 12.37pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Beckenham 20 Jun 19 8.13am
Media talk that Corbyn may allow a free vote within the Labour party. This is actually a good idea so as it's Corbyn I expect he won't do it. There are around 30 odd Labour MPS with small majorities and Brexit constituencies. If Corbyn moves to the Remain camp they fear they will lose their seats. Back in 1975 Wilson allowed Labour a free vote. If Corbyn does go with this idea it may actually help unblock the Brexit deadlock as MPs can vote with their conscience something that some posters on here are rather keen on. If I was the new Tory leader trying to make a break through I would offer the Remainers a variation on this theme. Vote for Brexit and so respect the referendum result after that then you would be free to campaign to re-join the EU. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 20 Jun 19 8.13am

Media talk that Corbyn may allow a free vote within the Labour party. This is actually a good idea so as it's Corbyn I expect he won't do it.

There are around 30 odd Labour MPS with small majorities and Brexit constituencies. If Corbyn moves to the Remain camp they fear they will lose their seats.

Back in 1975 Wilson allowed Labour a free vote.

If Corbyn does go with this idea it may actually help unblock the Brexit deadlock as MPs can vote with their conscience something that some posters on here are rather keen on.

If I was the new Tory leader trying to make a break through I would offer the Remainers a variation on this theme. Vote for Brexit and so respect the referendum result after that then you would be free to campaign to re-join the EU.

One more point

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