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Bias against Trump
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 19 1.27pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
This is a double standard you are holding the US to. All nations are selfish and all nations pursue their own national interest. The Paris accord is a giant wishful thinking nothing burger which holds no country to actual account for actions. The US by pulling out is actually being honest which gets criticism from you but you can't point to any major nation in the world which has done anything of note on climate change. And that will continue to be the case. Indeed, the US is the only superpower which any of us can seriously look to on the technological front in this regard with all the major work on practical commercial alternatives on a mass scale originating from there.
I think that is bs. Things are being done in many places including the USA, despite Trump. Being selfish means looking after their people and with things like climate change you cannot do it alone. China recognises it's role and doesn't argue, as the current USA regime does, that climate change is a hoax. Dismissing things like the Paris Accord as meaningless virtue signaling is to misunderstand it's important in changing the mindsets of people the world over and preparing them to accept what has to happen. Of course technology can help but it cannot unless we also adopt changes to our lifestyles. I have had several face to face incredible conversations with Americans on this subject and their attitude is unreal. Totally ignorant of the facts and prepared to ignore scientific consensus.
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 27 Mar 19 1.34pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I think that is bs. Things are being done in many places including the USA, despite Trump. Being selfish means looking after their people and with things like climate change you cannot do it alone. China recognises it's role and doesn't argue, as the current USA regime does, that climate change is a hoax. Dismissing things like the Paris Accord as meaningless virtue signaling is to misunderstand it's important in changing the mindsets of people the world over and preparing them to accept what has to happen. Of course technology can help but it cannot unless we also adopt changes to our lifestyles. I have had several face to face incredible conversations with Americans on this subject and their attitude is unreal. Totally ignorant of the facts and prepared to ignore scientific consensus. Al Gore being a prime example I'd guess & add Leonardo Di Caprio in as well
Pro USA & Israel |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 19 1.38pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Seeing as you haven't been keeping up with the Paris Accord and the environmental issues, I will tell you. Virtually every country has failed to meet their targets. Trump was not prepared to allow factories to shut down and thousands of American workers to go on the dole for a virtue-signalling project that is meaningless if by far the largest polluters China and India don't play by the same rules. He said: "I was elected to represent Pittsburgh, not Paris." In fact, US government regulation and innovation from the free market has significantly lowered carbon emissions since the 1980s. What I said was it was unimportant in the overall context. This is a process and Paris was never an objective in it's own right. Getting China and India onboard won't happen so easily if the USA doesn't show a lead. Indeed China is now likely to be able to grab the moral high ground over this issue and further advance their inevitable move to supplant the USA as the world leader. Trump was indeed elected to represent Pittsburgh but he isn't doing that if he adopts a policy that could see Pittsburgh disappear because of climate change. It's simply short sighted irresponsibility not to lead your country and explain to them why these things are necessary. Chasing the God of money today and not reacting to the needs of the future is not what real leaders do. I cannot imagine Kennedy taking his line. Can you? Yes, some states and private enterprise are doing good work, despite the attitude from the WH and the idiots who put Trump there and refuse to see what a liability he is.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 19 1.42pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
Funny how you same the complete opposite about Brexit? How queer. That's because Brexit is the abandonment of a journey which started with the European Coal and Steel Community. Brexit is the equivalent of turkeys voting for christmas. They might have the right to do it but are damn stupid to do so.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 27 Mar 19 2.10pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I think that is bs. Things are being done in many places including the USA, despite Trump. Being selfish means looking after their people and with things like climate change you cannot do it alone. China recognises it's role and doesn't argue, as the current USA regime does, that climate change is a hoax. Dismissing things like the Paris Accord as meaningless virtue signaling is to misunderstand it's important in changing the mindsets of people the world over and preparing them to accept what has to happen. Of course technology can help but it cannot unless we also adopt changes to our lifestyles. I have had several face to face incredible conversations with Americans on this subject and their attitude is unreal. Totally ignorant of the facts and prepared to ignore scientific consensus.
China is the largest producer and consumer of coal in the world. China have been starting two coal power projects a week. They literally have cities covered in smog and you waffle about recognising its role..Air pollution in China kills 750,000 people every year, according to a study by the World Bank. China is now the number one producer of carbon dioxide, responsible for a full quarter of the world's CO2 output....and you think feel good noises amount to something. Who gives a damn as to whether someone argues about the extent of climate science? You overly fixate on Trump tweets while America is actually where the effective work on alternatives is actually happening which will appear in the world. What matters are actions......not virtue signalling like the Paris accord, which you seem to think matters.....Yet you can't point to one single thing it will do. I'll tell you what. I promise to climb Everest next year, naked and balancing a pineapple on my head....I'll just sign right here....and call it the 'Virtual Signallers' Accord'....What happens if I don't do it? Nothing.....but if I pull out I'll get loads of 'traditional conservatives' telling me how awful I am. Give me a fecking break. As for you waffling on about changes in lifestyle choices? That's simply not going to amount to a hill of beans....you might as well make your tea in a chocolate teapot. The third world and China and India are developing at massive rates and using energy at huge increases and what?.....You think putting your waste in the right coloured bin is going to help? Nope...... It's technology or bust. This issue will be solved by technological means over many decades. The only lifestyle choices that matter are the move away from fossil fuels that will happen due to innovation.....for example fossil fuel cars will gradually disappear as a mainstream option for buyers. And most of this innovation and commercial choice will come from American or western companies. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Mar 2019 2.13pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 19 7.34pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
China is the largest producer and consumer of coal in the world. China have been starting two coal power projects a week. They literally have cities covered in smog and you waffle about recognising its role..Air pollution in China kills 750,000 people every year, according to a study by the World Bank. China is now the number one producer of carbon dioxide, responsible for a full quarter of the world's CO2 output....and you think feel good noises amount to something. Who gives a damn as to whether someone argues about the extent of climate science? You overly fixate on Trump tweets while America is actually where the effective work on alternatives is actually happening which will appear in the world. What matters are actions......not virtue signalling like the Paris accord, which you seem to think matters.....Yet you can't point to one single thing it will do. I'll tell you what. I promise to climb Everest next year, naked and balancing a pineapple on my head....I'll just sign right here....and call it the 'Virtual Signallers' Accord'....What happens if I don't do it? Nothing.....but if I pull out I'll get loads of 'traditional conservatives' telling me how awful I am. Give me a fecking break. As for you waffling on about changes in lifestyle choices? That's simply not going to amount to a hill of beans....you might as well make your tea in a chocolate teapot. The third world and China and India are developing at massive rates and using energy at huge increases and what?.....You think putting your waste in the right coloured bin is going to help? Nope...... It's technology or bust. This issue will be solved by technological means over many decades. The only lifestyle choices that matter are the move away from fossil fuels that will happen due to innovation.....for example fossil fuel cars will gradually disappear as a mainstream option for buyers. And most of this innovation and commercial choice will come from American or western companies. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Mar 2019 2.13pm) I am far from anti American! I am anti idiots and anti Trump, which is much the same thing. Of course China and India as the fastest developing countries are also currently the fastest growing contributors to this problem. The difference though is that the USA is a developed country and able to afford the adjustments needed, if only the will existed at the top and the leadership led, rather than follow the popular opinion. Trump is encouraging scepticism and making crass statements to keep his base onside. That's just irresponsible. Technological answers will only go so far in solving this problem and whilst the profit motive will drive innovation you still have to create the mindset in the people that demands the necessary changes. That's the point of things like the Paris Accord. It isn't a destination in itself. It is the first stop on a long journey and if one of the main players gets off at the first stop they are deliberately throwing the journey off track.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 27 Mar 19 8.16pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I am far from anti American! I am anti idiots and anti Trump, which is much the same thing. Of course China and India as the fastest developing countries are also currently the fastest growing contributors to this problem. The difference though is that the USA is a developed country and able to afford the adjustments needed, if only the will existed at the top and the leadership led, rather than follow the popular opinion. Trump is encouraging scepticism and making crass statements to keep his base onside. That's just irresponsible. Technological answers will only go so far in solving this problem and whilst the profit motive will drive innovation you still have to create the mindset in the people that demands the necessary changes. That's the point of things like the Paris Accord. It isn't a destination in itself. It is the first stop on a long journey and if one of the main players gets off at the first stop they are deliberately throwing the journey off track. The Democrats' solution to help the environment is the Green New Deal. Have you read it? It's such a shambles that Congress has just thrown it out.
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| Stirlingsays 27 Mar 19 8.23pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I am far from anti American! I am anti idiots and anti Trump, which is much the same thing. Of course China and India as the fastest developing countries are also currently the fastest growing contributors to this problem. The difference though is that the USA is a developed country and able to afford the adjustments needed, if only the will existed at the top and the leadership led, rather than follow the popular opinion. Trump is encouraging scepticism and making crass statements to keep his base onside. That's just irresponsible. You say you're not anti American and just anti idiot yet you insult nearly half the US and then say the reason for your double standard with the US is because it's a developed country! Yet China is the second biggest economy in the world. Their middle class probably has a richer lifestyle than you. It's a complete nonsense. Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Technological answers will only go so far in solving this problem and whilst the profit motive will drive innovation you still have to create the mindset in the people that demands the necessary changes. That's the point of things like the Paris Accord. It isn't a destination in itself. It is the first stop on a long journey and if one of the main players gets off at the first stop they are deliberately throwing the journey off track. I hate to burst your bubble mate.....but joke agreements like the Paris accord only carry weight with middle class pseudo intellectuals who think that what they believe is some kind of example to others. It's not in the real world and it just another example of overpaid over powerful leaders sitting down for overly expensive meals and signing documents that mean feck all. If you haven't grasped that it's technology or bust on things like climate change....I don't know what to tell you. However, if you want to carry on worrying about your carbon footprint while every second thousands of jets and millions of cars start their journeys and China opens two coal factories a week.....Go ahead.....Hey go vegan while you're at it. But you might as well wait for Diane Abbott to go on a diet.....it ain't happening. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Mar 2019 8.24pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 19 8.30pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
The Democrats' solution to help the environment is the Green New Deal. Have you read it? It's such a shambles that Congress has just thrown it out. It suffered a political setback for sure, I suspect, in part at least, because of the personalities involved. The good thing is that has sparked a debate and raised awareness so hopefully just another part of the process.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 27 Mar 19 8.37pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It suffered a political setback for sure, I suspect, in part at least, because of the personalities involved. The good thing is that has sparked a debate and raised awareness so hopefully just another part of the process.
Unfortunately AOC is my house representative. A woman so bereft of brain power but full up on bulls*** that she managed to defeat long term Democrat Joe Crowley another lame duck. I am willing to bet now she won't get a second term
Pro USA & Israel |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 19 8.56pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I hate to burst your bubble mate.....but joke agreements like the Paris accord only carry weight with middle class pseudo intellectuals who think that what they believe is some kind of example to others. It's not in the real world and it just another example of overpaid over powerful leaders sitting down for overly expensive meals and signing documents that mean feck all. If you haven't grasped that it's technology or bust on things like climate change....I don't know what to tell you. However, if you want to carry on worrying about your carbon footprint while every second thousands of jets and millions of cars start their journeys and China opens two coal factories a week.....Go ahead.....Hey go vegan while you're at it. But you might as well wait for Diane Abbott to go on a diet.....it ain't happening. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Mar 2019 8.24pm) You aren't my mate and as I don't have a bubble there isn't one to break. It's you who don't grasp the importance of things like the Paris Accord, which has nothing whatsoever to do with middle class pseudo intellectuals. It has everything to do with bringing climate science to the conscience of the people. And you are simply wrong about it being technology or bust. Technology will help but unless the people demand the use of that technology it won't mean anything. You must keep the people in the loop and not feed them negative propaganda such as that promoted by Trump. The people have a role to play in demanding political action and not demanding political resistance. I agree that worrying about your personal carbon footprint and such things are just window dressing. Such small things won't cut the mustard. Going vegan would make things worse. I am not a vegan and regard the growth of organic food use as a disaster. I believe that science has a positive role in all these things. It's the change to emission free electric transport and similar big steps that will start to make the difference, but the people need to be convinced it's worthwhile.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 27 Mar 19 9.21pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You aren't my mate
Coming from Wisbech with your six fingers I thought we had a kinship.....What am I going to do now!!
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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cryrst  The garden of England 27 Mar 19 9.22pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You aren't my mate and as I don't have a bubble there isn't one to break. It's you who don't grasp the importance of things like the Paris Accord, which has nothing whatsoever to do with middle class pseudo intellectuals. It has everything to do with bringing climate science to the conscience of the people. And you are simply wrong about it being technology or bust. Technology will help but unless the people demand the use of that technology it won't mean anything. You must keep the people in the loop and not feed them negative propaganda such as that promoted by Trump. The people have a role to play in demanding political action and not demanding political resistance. I agree that worrying about your personal carbon footprint and such things are just window dressing. Such small things won't cut the mustard. Going vegan would make things worse. I am not a vegan and regard the growth of organic food use as a disaster. I believe that science has a positive role in all these things. It's the change to emission free electric transport and similar big steps that will start to make the difference, but the people need to be convinced it's worthwhile. So how do you generate the electric for all of these electric cars then.
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| Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 27 Mar 19 9.31pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
So how do you generate the electric for all of these electric cars then. Agreed. Most of it is a long con for snakeskin salesman like Al Gore etc & another way to tax an already heavily taxed Joe Public, Shopping bags being just one example I can think of off the top of my head.
Pro USA & Israel |
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| cryrst The garden of England 27 Mar 19 9.36pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
Agreed. Most of it is a long con for snakeskin salesman like Al Gore etc & another way to tax an already heavily taxed Joe Public, Shopping bags being just one example I can think of off the top of my head. CO OP bags are now the green composting type for food waste in your caddy.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Mar 19 10.31pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
So how do you generate the electric for all of these electric cars then. Your's is the kind of nonsense I have heard on countless times from the climate change deniers in the USA. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain why you are wrong. There is loads of freely available books on this subject and plenty of information on the web. Do your own research. I once knew a senior climate change scientist whose integrity was beyond doubt. She knew it was fact more than 20 years ago. That's all I needed to convince me. The idea that it is just a way to fleece people like you is risible. Grow up!
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 27 Mar 19 11.32pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Your's is the kind of nonsense I have heard on countless times from the climate change deniers in the USA. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain why you are wrong. There is loads of freely available books on this subject and plenty of information on the web. Do your own research. I once knew a senior climate change scientist whose integrity was beyond doubt. She knew it was fact more than 20 years ago. That's all I needed to convince me. The idea that it is just a way to fleece people like you is risible. Grow up! I do believe the earth is getting warmer. But the scientists have got predictions wildly wrong and many are leftists with a political agenda which Trump rightly points out. Governments use green as an excuse to tax more. Al Gore in 2006: "Humans may have only 10 years to save the planet from turning into a total frying pan." AOC in 2019: "The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change." So what's your solutions then? Tell me what you agree with AOC's Green New Deal? Edited by Penge Eagle (27 Mar 2019 11.35pm)
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| Maine Eagle USA 28 Mar 19 4.09am |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
The Democrats' solution to help the environment is the Green New Deal. Have you read it? It's such a shambles that Congress has just thrown it out. At least the likes of AOC are trying to do something about the single most dangerous issue that will face future generations. The green new deal is very far from perfect, but while we have collosal morons like Trump in the hot seat we need people to highlight how crazy and dangerous climate change deniers truly are.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| cryrst The garden of England 28 Mar 19 6.02am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Your's is the kind of nonsense I have heard on countless times from the climate change deniers in the USA. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain why you are wrong. There is loads of freely available books on this subject and plenty of information on the web. Do your own research. I once knew a senior climate change scientist whose integrity was beyond doubt. She knew it was fact more than 20 years ago. That's all I needed to convince me. The idea that it is just a way to fleece people like you is risible. Grow up! Ok the great knowall.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Mar 19 10.04am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Ok the great knowall. That natural cycles occur is not, and has never been, in dispute. Such cycles are slow, taking centuries to evolve. Man made warming has occurred over a much shorter period and is something alongside any natural change. Using taxation as a weapon to help steer the needed reaction is perfectly sensible. I am not a scientist but I trust them as I trust the politicians who have the difficult job of convincing us, the unscientific masses, of the need to react to what the scientists can see is happening. You either believe in science, or you choose to believe your prejudices. I trust experts. I wouldn't ask a plumber to do brain surgery on me. If you choose to then that's up to you. I have read enough to convince me but I am certainly not going to look it all up again now just to convince you.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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