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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Stirlingsays  03 Sep 19 6.37pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Non sequitur. You said 'the way the EU has behaved wouldn't have helped the remain side'. So how has it behaved during the past three years, what 'won't have helped'? People on both sides of the border are more than deeply concerned about a return to troubles if the backstop goes. Please respond to my point that it was those who went through wars that voted to be a part of the European project - in full knowledge of what that meant. It is a bunch of people who missed out on the wars but have rose tinted spectacles that think we need to get into a position to 'fight our own corner' etc. etc. They have no clue and in any case they are setting up others to do the fighting, others that simply don't want to as they recognise foolishness when they see it.
It's wrong of you to suggest that what people voted for then was done in the expectation of what it is now.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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jeeagles  03 Sep 19 6.39pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Non sequitur. You said 'the way the EU has behaved wouldn't have helped the remain side'. So how has it behaved during the past three years, Its lost 13% of its population, and 17% of its GDP. One of its members is having riots over petrol prices, one has had an illegal vote to split the country, at least two are flat broke.... it's done nothing. Needs to reform if it wants the UK to remain.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 03 Sep 19 6.42pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's wrong of you to suggest that what people voted for then was done in the expectation of what it is now. Now where else could that apply?
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| Stirlingsays 03 Sep 19 6.49pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Now where else could that apply?
Nicely put. Look I'm not against another referendum at some point....As happened last time perhaps. With a 51.9-48.1 result I think that's valid. However, let's implement the result of the first one before that.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Maine Eagle USA 03 Sep 19 6.51pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
Yes every single voter. Mind Meld!
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 03 Sep 19 6.53pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Did Bracknell vote to leave without a deal? was never an option....the vote was remain or leave! As an aside, what happens if there was a 2nd referendum and the result was a win for leave? Then where do we go? Best of 5?
Edited by the silurian (03 Sep 2019 6.56pm)
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| Badger11 Beckenham 03 Sep 19 6.56pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Bercow grants emergency debate under SO24. By my count 16 Tory rebels stood and backed it, indicating they will vote against the government. General election is coming chaps. Bring it on. Remainers or Leavers I hope we can all agree that this has gone on for too long and it's time to bring it to a close.
One more point |
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 03 Sep 19 6.57pm |
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Originally posted by the silurian
was never an option....the vote was remain or leave! As an aside, what happens if there was a 2nd referendum and the result was a win for leave? Then where do we go? Best of 5?
Edited by the silurian (03 Sep 2019 6.56pm) Bingo!
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| Stirlingsays 03 Sep 19 6.58pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Bercow grants emergency debate under SO24. By my count 16 Tory rebels stood and backed it, indicating they will vote against the government. General election is coming chaps. Yum yum. Mind you will Corbyn backtrack?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 03 Sep 19 6.58pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Because I have eyes, ears and a brain? I know very well what a huge percentage of brexit voters were voting for. They were voting to have less bloody foreigners on our streets taking our women and jobs. You call for honesty, then be honest yourself. Sovereignty was secondary to xenophobia in the 2016 vote. Tell me all you want that this isnt correct, and I will never believe you. You are just listing all the stock responses from a brexiteer about a people's vote. Yes the second vote would be 100% respected, implemented, and delivered because it would be DELIVERABLE. The 2016 vote was not deliverable, if you have seen anything in the last 3 years, you have seen that. The whole idea of a second vote is to tie the vote responses to deliverable pathways of implementation. "Leave the EU" is not such a pathway, as there are massive differences between the different ways in which you can leave the EU.
And of course Leave is deliverable. We are scheduled to leave on October 31st. That is it. The only people trying to prevent that are the same ones, in the main, who agreed for Article 50 to be served and who promised to honour the outcome. Making them scum and filth in my opinion. But let us see how it all plays out. Because it is plainly clear that we need a major reset of how our Parliament is made up. As matters stand we have no effective Government.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Mapletree Croydon 03 Sep 19 8.29pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's wrong of you to suggest that what people voted for then was done in the expectation of what it is now. No it isn't. Read the transcripts from the original discussions and more specifically the first referendum. People were not stupid then and fully understood the longer term flow. Enoch Powell told parliament in his speech during October 1971’s marathon six-day parliamentary debate on Britain’s accession to the European Community: “I do not think the fact that this involves a cession — and a growing cession — of Parliament's sovereignty can be disputed. Indeed, I notice that those who are the keenest proposers of British entry are the most ready to confess — not to confess, but to assert — that of course this involves by its very nature a reduction of the sovereignty of the House.” When we joined the EEC - you won't remember this and presumably have not been taught it - Britain was 'the sick man of Europe'. We realised we had to improve the economy to get back any power, hence the discussions cited. Mess with the economy and the idea of self-determination is a pyhrric victory. We have nothing to be sovereign over.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 03 Sep 19 8.35pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
No it isn't. Read the transcripts from the original discussions and more specifically the first referendum. People were not stupid then and fully understood the longer term flow. Enoch Powell told parliament in his speech during October 1971’s marathon six-day parliamentary debate on Britain’s accession to the European Community: “I do not think the fact that this involves a cession — and a growing cession — of Parliament's sovereignty can be disputed. Indeed, I notice that those who are the keenest proposers of British entry are the most ready to confess — not to confess, but to assert — that of course this involves by its very nature a reduction of the sovereignty of the House.” When we joined the EEC - you won't remember this and presumably have not been taught it - Britain was 'the sick man of Europe'. We realised we had to improve the economy to get back any power, hence the discussions cited. Mess with the economy and the idea of self-determination is a pyhrric victory. We have nothing to be sovereign over. 'Lost an empire, not yet found a role' I think that is more accurate. 'sick man of Europe' is more about our industrial problems, strikes etc. things like that. So on leaving the EU, it looks like ever decreasing circles at best.
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| Mapletree Croydon 03 Sep 19 8.38pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
And of course Leave is deliverable. We are scheduled to leave on October 31st. That is it. The only people trying to prevent that are the same ones, in the main, who agreed for Article 50 to be served and who promised to honour the outcome. Making them scum and filth in my opinion. But let us see how it all plays out. Because it is plainly clear that we need a major reset of how our Parliament is made up. As matters stand we have no effective Government. Just for your information The bendy banana thing is such a load of old tosh. In order for bananas to be assessed as Extra Class they had to have no abnormal shape and to be roughly a similar size. This was done at the behest of the banana retailers to get the wholesalers to package bananas better. Other bananas were sold as Class 1 and Class 2. This was simply a way of classifying bananas to help retailers. The regulation was repealed as people became more tolerant in their shopping to a greater variety of shapes, colours and sizes in their fruit to avoid wastage.
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| Lyons550 Shirley 03 Sep 19 8.41pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Works for me. Foolish old people shouldnt be allowed to f*** over 21 year olds with their whole lives ahead of them. How is Tinder going ?
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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| Mapletree Croydon 03 Sep 19 8.41pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
'Lost an empire, not yet found a role' I think that is more accurate. 'sick man of Europe' is more about our industrial problems, strikes etc. things like that. So on leaving the EU, it looks like ever decreasing circles at best. There were many reasons we were the 'sick man' - for example productivity is not just about manpower but also investment in machinery etc. That is not my argument. What I said was we had to do something quickly to improve our economy, joining the EEC was seen as a highly positive step in that direction. The logic still applies, it's our most important market and was always intended to be so when we agreed to join the EEC.
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| Mapletree Croydon 03 Sep 19 8.43pm |
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Originally posted by jeeagles
Its lost 13% of its population, and 17% of its GDP. One of its members is having riots over petrol prices, one has had an illegal vote to split the country, at least two are flat broke.... it's done nothing. Needs to reform if it wants the UK to remain. Perhaps so. That still doesn't mean it did anything to worsen matters during the past three years. Britain is the best EU country at managing change, we should be doing just that not blowing up our markets.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Sep 19 8.49pm |
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Originally posted by the silurian
was never an option....the vote was remain or leave! Whilst the implications of remaining were clear those of leaving were surrounded by a fog of claims, counter claims and downright lies. We were told a new "deal" was a piece of cake and the problems over the Irish border were never even mentioned. Now we are all so much better informed. Is being ignorant and stubborn an option, or is it compulsory? As an aside, what happens if there was a 2nd referendum and the result was a win for leave? Then where do we go? Best of 5? No. We let Parliament do it's job and decide for us. That's what we pay them for. If we hold a second referendum it should be stressed that it remains advisory and subject to review in the light of consequent events and experience.
Edited by the silurian (03 Sep 2019 6.56pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 03 Sep 19 9.00pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
No it isn't. Read the transcripts from the original discussions and more specifically the first referendum. People were not stupid then and fully understood the longer term flow. Enoch Powell told parliament in his speech during October 1971’s marathon six-day parliamentary debate on Britain’s accession to the European Community: “I do not think the fact that this involves a cession — and a growing cession — of Parliament's sovereignty can be disputed. Indeed, I notice that those who are the keenest proposers of British entry are the most ready to confess — not to confess, but to assert — that of course this involves by its very nature a reduction of the sovereignty of the House.” When we joined the EEC - you won't remember this and presumably have not been taught it - Britain was 'the sick man of Europe'. We realised we had to improve the economy to get back any power, hence the discussions cited. Mess with the economy and the idea of self-determination is a pyhrric victory. We have nothing to be sovereign over. Powell was not Prime Minister.....should have been but unfortunately the best minds rarely attain the top. Prime Minister Edward Heath, television broadcast on Britain’s entry into the Common Market, January 1973 Here is a direct quote to the nation: 'There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified'
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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