The Election Thread

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

The Election Thread

Visit the current forum | Forum Rules

Page 122 of 129 < 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 >

Badger11 Beckenham 19 Dec 19 11.10am
Originally posted by chris123 Was that driven by a belief that university finance and loans would cease. Good point hopefully the pollsters will clarify who voted what and why. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 19 Dec 19 11.10am

Originally posted by chris123

Was that driven by a belief that university finance and loans would cease.

Good point hopefully the pollsters will clarify who voted what and why.

One more point

Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 11.57am
Originally posted by Matov Not so sure myself. Problem is you two sides, each with a validish excuse for why the election went so horribly wrong. The Corbies blame the second referendum stance whilst the Blairites blame Corbyn. And they are both 50% right. Meaning they will simply not be able to ever reach common ground. They loathe each other and think the other is to blame whilst being unable to face up to their own role in it. Throw in the grip that Momentum now has on the internal power structure whilst the Blairites can rely on a huge amount of sympathetic voices from outside and you have a recipe for utter mayhem. The only single reason they might survive is that the one thing they all have in common is that they are power crazy pricks. And the only way they achieve their ambitions is via our FPTP system. Which they need a party political structure to exist within and having seen the glorious f*** up that the Change UK lot were, then I suspect they might not be so keen on striking out. But whatever happens the next few months are going to be LOLZ. Looking forward to it! Me too! I agree, it's not just Corbyn and it's not just Brexit: it's both. Of the two it's obvious that Brexit was the main driver....it made up the vast majority of the Tory campaign and that would have been mostly based upon focus group data. I suppose the implicit point I'm making is that personalities play a larger role in general elections than people realize. That allied with Labour leavers reinforcing the Brexit mandate in the north did for Labour. I think the 'for the many, not the few' tagline did well for Labour in 2017 when the stiff and robotic May was their opposition but come 2019 that message was had lost it's shine and Boris that much more popular with 'floating voters'. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2019 12.00pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Dec 19 11.57am

Originally posted by Matov

Not so sure myself.

Problem is you two sides, each with a validish excuse for why the election went so horribly wrong.

The Corbies blame the second referendum stance whilst the Blairites blame Corbyn.

And they are both 50% right. Meaning they will simply not be able to ever reach common ground. They loathe each other and think the other is to blame whilst being unable to face up to their own role in it.

Throw in the grip that Momentum now has on the internal power structure whilst the Blairites can rely on a huge amount of sympathetic voices from outside and you have a recipe for utter mayhem.

The only single reason they might survive is that the one thing they all have in common is that they are power crazy pricks. And the only way they achieve their ambitions is via our FPTP system. Which they need a party political structure to exist within and having seen the glorious f*** up that the Change UK lot were, then I suspect they might not be so keen on striking out.

But whatever happens the next few months are going to be LOLZ. Looking forward to it!

Me too!

I agree, it's not just Corbyn and it's not just Brexit: it's both. Of the two it's obvious that Brexit was the main driver....it made up the vast majority of the Tory campaign and that would have been mostly based upon focus group data.

I suppose the implicit point I'm making is that personalities play a larger role in general elections than people realize.

That allied with Labour leavers reinforcing the Brexit mandate in the north did for Labour.

I think the 'for the many, not the few' tagline did well for Labour in 2017 when the stiff and robotic May was their opposition but come 2019 that message was had lost it's shine and Boris that much more popular with 'floating voters'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2019 12.00pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 19 Dec 19 12.05pm
Be interesting when Brexit has happened and people that voted for it to be 'done' realise it's anything but and how the repercussions transpire. Think the political ground will look very different in 5 years time. If we get that far without another election.

DanH

SW2 19 Dec 19 12.05pm

Be interesting when Brexit has happened and people that voted for it to be 'done' realise it's anything but and how the repercussions transpire.

Think the political ground will look very different in 5 years time. If we get that far without another election.

Badger11 Beckenham 19 Dec 19 12.11pm
Originally posted by DanH Be interesting when Brexit has happened and people that voted for it to be 'done' realise it's anything but and how the repercussions transpire. Think the political ground will look very different in 5 years time. If we get that far without another election. None of us can predict the future but you are right if Brexit is judged a failure the Tories will get a kicking. So it's up to Johnson to ensure it's a success if he wants to be re-elected. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 19 Dec 19 12.11pm

Originally posted by DanH

Be interesting when Brexit has happened and people that voted for it to be 'done' realise it's anything but and how the repercussions transpire.

Think the political ground will look very different in 5 years time. If we get that far without another election.

None of us can predict the future but you are right if Brexit is judged a failure the Tories will get a kicking. So it's up to Johnson to ensure it's a success if he wants to be re-elected.

One more point

Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 12.18pm
Originally posted by DanH Be interesting when Brexit has happened and people that voted for it to be 'done' realise it's anything but and how the repercussions transpire. Think the political ground will look very different in 5 years time. If we get that far without another election. It's done in terms of blocking and that's what 'Brexit' is for many....politicians arguing in parliament and fudge and block. All done now. The point is that a majority exists who aren't fond of the EU.....there are clear reasons for that. In fact the EU isn't that popular within many EU countries itself. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Dec 19 12.18pm

Originally posted by DanH

Be interesting when Brexit has happened and people that voted for it to be 'done' realise it's anything but and how the repercussions transpire.

Think the political ground will look very different in 5 years time. If we get that far without another election.

It's done in terms of blocking and that's what 'Brexit' is for many....politicians arguing in parliament and fudge and block.

All done now.

The point is that a majority exists who aren't fond of the EU.....there are clear reasons for that.

In fact the EU isn't that popular within many EU countries itself.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 12.25pm
I do have some sympathy for Corbyn here.....it can't be fun to be continually hounded. [Tweet Link] Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2019 12.26pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Dec 19 12.25pm

I do have some sympathy for Corbyn here.....it can't be fun to be continually hounded.

[Tweet Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2019 12.26pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 19 Dec 19 12.27pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's done in terms of blocking and that's what 'Brexit' is for many....politicians arguing in parliament and fudge and block. All done now. The point is that a majority exists who aren't fond of the EU.....there are clear reasons for that. In fact the EU isn't that popular within many EU countries itself. The EU was always a far bigger bogeyman than made out to distract from decades of government failure. Once it's gone there's only themselves left to blame.

DanH

SW2 19 Dec 19 12.27pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's done in terms of blocking and that's what 'Brexit' is for many....politicians arguing in parliament and fudge and block.

All done now.

The point is that a majority exists who aren't fond of the EU.....there are clear reasons for that.

In fact the EU isn't that popular within many EU countries itself.

The EU was always a far bigger bogeyman than made out to distract from decades of government failure.

Once it's gone there's only themselves left to blame.

Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 12.31pm
Originally posted by DanH The EU was always a far bigger bogeyman than made out to distract from decades of government failure. Once it's gone there's only themselves left to blame. The EU is to blame for what the EU became. It had zero mandate and all you are seeing is that correction: nothing more, nothing less. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Dec 19 12.31pm

Originally posted by DanH

The EU was always a far bigger bogeyman than made out to distract from decades of government failure.

Once it's gone there's only themselves left to blame.

The EU is to blame for what the EU became.

It had zero mandate and all you are seeing is that correction: nothing more, nothing less.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 19 Dec 19 12.39pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The EU is to blame for what the EU became. It had zero mandate and all you are seeing is that correction: nothing more, nothing less. But it's been sold to the British public as the root of all evil. When it all unfolds and becomes clear that it wasn't things will be interesting.

DanH

SW2 19 Dec 19 12.39pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The EU is to blame for what the EU became.

It had zero mandate and all you are seeing is that correction: nothing more, nothing less.

But it's been sold to the British public as the root of all evil. When it all unfolds and becomes clear that it wasn't things will be interesting.

Badger11 Beckenham 19 Dec 19 12.46pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I do have some sympathy for Corbyn here.....it can't be fun to be continually hounded. [Tweet Link] Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2019 12.26pm) True the press are pretty low. I wish some of the celebrities would band together and go and hound the journalists at their home see how they like that. What was the point of door stopping Corbyn today. He has said he will step down he's spoken about the election loss there is nothing newsworthy about him until he goes. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 19 Dec 19 12.46pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I do have some sympathy for Corbyn here.....it can't be fun to be continually hounded.

[Tweet Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2019 12.26pm)

True the press are pretty low. I wish some of the celebrities would band together and go and hound the journalists at their home see how they like that.

What was the point of door stopping Corbyn today. He has said he will step down he's spoken about the election loss there is nothing newsworthy about him until he goes.

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 19 Dec 19 12.48pm
Originally posted by DanH But it's been sold to the British public as the root of all evil. When it all unfolds and becomes clear that it wasn't things will be interesting. Wisbech might be right this could be the kick up the pants the EU needs to reform itself. Maybe in 5 years there will be a 2 tier EU if 1 week is a long time in politics 5 years is a lifetime. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 19 Dec 19 12.48pm

Originally posted by DanH

But it's been sold to the British public as the root of all evil. When it all unfolds and becomes clear that it wasn't things will be interesting.

Wisbech might be right this could be the kick up the pants the EU needs to reform itself. Maybe in 5 years there will be a 2 tier EU if 1 week is a long time in politics 5 years is a lifetime.

One more point

Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 2.19pm
Originally posted by DanH But it's been sold to the British public as the root of all evil. When it all unfolds and becomes clear that it wasn't things will be interesting. Tell the Catalans that. Besides the EU has never been 'the root of all evil'. If you think that people, who never valued the EU as a governing force before are going to going to change their tune I think perhaps you're more wistful than realistic. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2019 3.35pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Dec 19 2.19pm

Originally posted by DanH

But it's been sold to the British public as the root of all evil. When it all unfolds and becomes clear that it wasn't things will be interesting.

Tell the Catalans that.

Besides the EU has never been 'the root of all evil'.

If you think that people, who never valued the EU as a governing force before are going to going to change their tune I think perhaps you're more wistful than realistic.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2019 3.35pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Dec 19 3.27pm
Originally posted by DanH The EU was always a far bigger bogeyman than made out to distract from decades of government failure. Once it's gone there's only themselves left to blame. Agreed. All the recent opinion polls, and indeed the election result itself, suggest that more people now prefer to remain in the EU than leave it. First past the post was a significant reason for the election result. It was not the EU itself but a weariness of the Brexit process which people didn't like. The coming months and years will be interesting to observe. If in 12 months a "no deal" exit is back on the agenda then the temperature is bound to rise again and those who wanted to "Get Brexit done" might not feel quite so enthusiastic, having been promised a deal would be easy. The con man would have struck again but by then we will be stuck with him for 4 more years unless he himself decides political expediency enables him to call a snap election as by then the fixed Parliaments Act will be no more. You are right, once we no longer have the EU to blame then the heat will fall only on the government. With such a large majority the excuse cupboard is empty. No blaming a blocking Parliament. With the economy likely to be in decline, and new trade deals unable to replace what we are losing from the EU, I can already anticipate a ground swelling of dissatisfaction. The long game now needs to be played by EU believers for their time will come again. Good sense will always overcome bad. It just takes time and a few setbacks are inevitable. I'll bide my time and encourage the growth of a true centrist party which is so much a need now. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Dec 19 3.27pm

Originally posted by DanH

The EU was always a far bigger bogeyman than made out to distract from decades of government failure.

Once it's gone there's only themselves left to blame.

Agreed. All the recent opinion polls, and indeed the election result itself, suggest that more people now prefer to remain in the EU than leave it. First past the post was a significant reason for the election result.

It was not the EU itself but a weariness of the Brexit process which people didn't like.

The coming months and years will be interesting to observe. If in 12 months a "no deal" exit is back on the agenda then the temperature is bound to rise again and those who wanted to "Get Brexit done" might not feel quite so enthusiastic, having been promised a deal would be easy. The con man would have struck again but by then we will be stuck with him for 4 more years unless he himself decides political expediency enables him to call a snap election as by then the fixed Parliaments Act will be no more.

You are right, once we no longer have the EU to blame then the heat will fall only on the government. With such a large majority the excuse cupboard is empty. No blaming a blocking Parliament. With the economy likely to be in decline, and new trade deals unable to replace what we are losing from the EU, I can already anticipate a ground swelling of dissatisfaction.

The long game now needs to be played by EU believers for their time will come again. Good sense will always overcome bad. It just takes time and a few setbacks are inevitable.

I'll bide my time and encourage the growth of a true centrist party which is so much a need now.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Uphill Bedford 19 Dec 19 3.36pm
To Wisbech Eagle I commend your efforts to put the Labour point of view but I think we have got your message Two points I would say about the EU: 1. They sell more to us than we do to them. 2. The Tories won because of the fury of the 17 odd million who voted to leave and saw their decision torpedoed in Westminster. To be honest I think most on here have been tolerant of your extensive posts and I salute Midlands Eagle who has let you have your say. But, honestly, isn't it time to call it a day?

Uphill

Bedford 19 Dec 19 3.36pm

To Wisbech Eagle I commend your efforts to put the Labour point of view but I think we have got your message

Two points I would say about the EU:

1. They sell more to us than we do to them.
2. The Tories won because of the fury of the 17 odd million who voted to leave and saw their decision torpedoed in Westminster.

To be honest I think most on here have been tolerant of your extensive posts and I salute Midlands Eagle who has let you have your say. But, honestly, isn't it time to call it a day?

Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 3.41pm
When you are engaged in this conversations you just get a sense that the other side is.....well here's a link. [Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Dec 19 3.41pm

When you are engaged in this conversations you just get a sense that the other side is.....well here's a link.

[Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 19 Dec 19 3.42pm
Originally posted by Uphill To Wisbech Eagle I commend your efforts to put the Labour point of view but I think we have got your message Two points I would say about the EU: 1. They sell more to us than we do to them. 2. The Tories won because of the fury of the 17 odd million who voted to leave and saw their decision torpedoed in Westminster. To be honest I think most on here have been tolerant of your extensive posts and I salute Midlands Eagle who has let you have your say. But, honestly, isn't it time to call it a day? Free speech etc. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he has to stop posting on here.

DanH

SW2 19 Dec 19 3.42pm

Originally posted by Uphill

To Wisbech Eagle I commend your efforts to put the Labour point of view but I think we have got your message

Two points I would say about the EU:

1. They sell more to us than we do to them.
2. The Tories won because of the fury of the 17 odd million who voted to leave and saw their decision torpedoed in Westminster.

To be honest I think most on here have been tolerant of your extensive posts and I salute Midlands Eagle who has let you have your say. But, honestly, isn't it time to call it a day?

Free speech etc. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he has to stop posting on here.

Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 3.49pm
Originally posted by DanH Free speech etc. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he has to stop posting on here. Errrr...I'm not disagreeing with you but.... Didn't you say something to the effect of, 'you have your free speech, but that what you say comes with consequences'. Hence being a 'private company' the Hol gets to interpret its rules how it likes....So free speech gets to be what the Hol wants. The BBS kicks right wingers off that it doesn't like doesn't it. The fact is the right are far more tolerant of alternative voices. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Dec 19 3.49pm

Originally posted by DanH

Free speech etc. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he has to stop posting on here.

Errrr...I'm not disagreeing with you but....

Didn't you say something to the effect of, 'you have your free speech, but that what you say comes with consequences'.

Hence being a 'private company' the Hol gets to interpret its rules how it likes....So free speech gets to be what the Hol wants.

The BBS kicks right wingers off that it doesn't like doesn't it.

The fact is the right are far more tolerant of alternative voices.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 19 Dec 19 3.52pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Errrr...I'm not disagreeing with you but.... Didn't you say something to the effect of, 'you have your free speech, but that what you say comes with consequences'. Hence being a 'private company' the Hol gets to interpret its rules how it likes....So free speech gets to be what the Hol wants. The BBS kicks right wingers off that it doesn't like doesn't it. The fact is the right are far more tolerant of alternative voices. Of course the moderators can do what they want. My posts get deleted all the time. They can ban whoever they want. But the free speech champions on the right have to accept it both ways. And the left and centre leaning don't get banned on here; they just get bullied, belittled and hounded off instead.

DanH

SW2 19 Dec 19 3.52pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Errrr...I'm not disagreeing with you but....

Didn't you say something to the effect of, 'you have your free speech, but that what you say comes with consequences'.

Hence being a 'private company' the Hol gets to interpret its rules how it likes....So free speech gets to be what the Hol wants.

The BBS kicks right wingers off that it doesn't like doesn't it.

The fact is the right are far more tolerant of alternative voices.

Of course the moderators can do what they want. My posts get deleted all the time. They can ban whoever they want.

But the free speech champions on the right have to accept it both ways.

And the left and centre leaning don't get banned on here; they just get bullied, belittled and hounded off instead.

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Dec 19 3.54pm
I find Wisbech Eagle entertaining. I disagree with most of what he says but he, at least, seems to believe it. His air of superiority reminds me of Basil Fawlty - completely out of place, yet almost endearing. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Dec 19 3.54pm

I find Wisbech Eagle entertaining. I disagree with most of what he says but he, at least, seems to believe it. His air of superiority reminds me of Basil Fawlty - completely out of place, yet almost endearing.

Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Dec 19 3.57pm
Originally posted by DanH Of course the moderators can do what they want. My posts get deleted all the time. They can ban whoever they want. But the free speech champions on the right have to accept it both ways. And the left and centre leaning don't get banned on here; they just get bullied, belittled and hounded off instead. People lose arguments and debates but will not recognise when they have lost. In the end, is there any point in debating anymore with these people? Remind you of anything? Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Dec 19 3.57pm

Originally posted by DanH

Of course the moderators can do what they want. My posts get deleted all the time. They can ban whoever they want.

But the free speech champions on the right have to accept it both ways.

And the left and centre leaning don't get banned on here; they just get bullied, belittled and hounded off instead.

People lose arguments and debates but will not recognise when they have lost. In the end, is there any point in debating anymore with these people? Remind you of anything?

Red and Blue Army!

Page 122 of 129 < 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 >

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

The Election Thread

Site Map