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Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Sep 19 8.36am
Originally posted by dreamwaverider When the referendum was carried out, I am sure very few of us understood the complexities of our constitution and the inabilities of our system to ever agree on a method of leaving. Our system has shown conclusively that on a 50/50 result or close to it represented similarly by the politicians we will NEVER arrive at a solution on which parliament will agree. An election (which has already been disagreed) would merely bring us back to the same place. The only way to resolve this issue would be to have another vote by the people with a pre agreed outcome by the politicians. The vote (referendum) would be nice and simple just like before but would have one vital difference. The vote would be to either leave with no deal or whatever deal our elected prime minister decides within 3 months of the vote result or to remain. ALL politicians would have to agree to not standing in the way of the result. Whatever the result of the vote, it is bound to be close, would be honoured and carried out by the prime minister. So if it is remain, we simply remain. If it is leave, Boris gets on with his work and within 3 months we leave. No questions from politicians. Nobody can stop Boris offering this to us the people and this way it is resolved once and for all. The alternative is literally years of watching a bunch of baffoons continuing to debate in an unworkable system where they will NEVER find a solution to ever be able to agree to leave. It’s called a democracy! People who say this defies democracy, (which it does), must accept that it is democracy itself that is preventing a decision ever being reached. This would be a vote to beat this impass and find a solution to what has become an unacceptable mess that is fast making us the laughing stock globally of decision making. And rightly so. This way it is us the people who would unlock this impossible situation. The problem with that is you’re dividing the leave vote, unless you say that if the leave with the deal negotiated scoops up the no deal vote if the negotiated deal vote is higher. I agree with your thinking in the circumstances now but with that vote remain will win so pointless having. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 05 Sep 19 8.36am

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

When the referendum was carried out, I am sure very few of us understood the complexities of our constitution and the inabilities of our system to ever agree on a method of leaving. Our system has shown conclusively that on a 50/50 result or close to it represented similarly by the politicians we will NEVER arrive at a solution on which parliament will agree. An election (which has already been disagreed) would merely bring us back to the same place.
The only way to resolve this issue would be to have another vote by the people with a pre agreed outcome by the politicians.
The vote (referendum) would be nice and simple just like before but would have one vital difference. The vote would be to either leave with no deal or whatever deal our elected prime minister decides within 3 months of the vote result or to remain. ALL politicians would have to agree to not standing in the way of the result.
Whatever the result of the vote, it is bound to be close, would be honoured and carried out by the prime minister.
So if it is remain, we simply remain. If it is leave, Boris gets on with his work and within 3 months we leave. No questions from politicians.
Nobody can stop Boris offering this to us the people and this way it is resolved once and for all.
The alternative is literally years of watching a bunch of baffoons continuing to debate in an unworkable system where they will NEVER find a solution to ever be able to agree to leave. It’s called a democracy!
People who say this defies democracy, (which it does), must accept that it is democracy itself that is preventing a decision ever being reached. This would be a vote to beat this impass and find a solution to what has become an unacceptable mess that is fast making us the laughing stock globally of decision making. And rightly so.
This way it is us the people who would unlock this impossible situation.

The problem with that is you’re dividing the leave vote, unless you say that if the leave with the deal negotiated scoops up the no deal vote if the negotiated deal vote is higher. I agree with your thinking in the circumstances now but with that vote remain will win so pointless having.

COYP

Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Sep 19 8.47am
Originally posted by Matov So it looked like we will not be leaving on the 31st but that we will have an election. Good. This needs sorting. As things stand, my vote will be cast solely on the Brexit issue. If the Brexit party stand a candidate in my constituency then he or she will get my vote. If the Brexit Party decide to stand aside for the Tories, based on a definite pledge that we leave with no deal, then I vote for them. But matters need resolving. Not even bothered anymore if Corbyn wins. Will be highly amusing in a nihilistic sort of fashion especially when he clashes with the EU himself as he invariably will and the anguish that causes for all the text-message trots forced to confront the glaring contradiction at the heart of their schizophrenic love of Corbyn and the EU. However in the event of a second referendum with Remain still on the ballot I will refuse to legitimise it by taking part. I would rather see the inevitable break up of the UK than allow myself to take part in that farce. Still, let us cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, let us get a GE underway and see how the die land. All to play for still. Farage is still saying this. How can Boris exit the U.K. without a deal if it’s been blocked by law in Parliament? If he gets a majority Parliament can he undo all of these knots of the last few days (to halt and prevent us leaving). Yep, remain being in another referendum will be the biggest joke. Edited by Rudi Hedman (05 Sep 2019 9.02am) COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 05 Sep 19 8.47am

Originally posted by Matov

So it looked like we will not be leaving on the 31st but that we will have an election.

Good.

This needs sorting.

As things stand, my vote will be cast solely on the Brexit issue. If the Brexit party stand a candidate in my constituency then he or she will get my vote. If the Brexit Party decide to stand aside for the Tories, based on a definite pledge that we leave with no deal, then I vote for them.

But matters need resolving. Not even bothered anymore if Corbyn wins. Will be highly amusing in a nihilistic sort of fashion especially when he clashes with the EU himself as he invariably will and the anguish that causes for all the text-message trots forced to confront the glaring contradiction at the heart of their schizophrenic love of Corbyn and the EU.

However in the event of a second referendum with Remain still on the ballot I will refuse to legitimise it by taking part. I would rather see the inevitable break up of the UK than allow myself to take part in that farce.

Still, let us cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, let us get a GE underway and see how the die land. All to play for still.

Farage is still saying this. How can Boris exit the U.K. without a deal if it’s been blocked by law in Parliament?

If he gets a majority Parliament can he undo all of these knots of the last few days (to halt and prevent us leaving).

Yep, remain being in another referendum will be the biggest joke.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (05 Sep 2019 9.02am)

COYP

jeeagles 05 Sep 19 8.50am
The Tories will gain a majority, reverse all the votes we have currently had, and it will be back to where we were a couple of days ago. People need to realise that we have no route back into the EU and need to try and get the best deal possible. You won't get a good deal if you rule out a no-deal or publish operation yellowhammer reports. It's likely our MEP's will now take there seats and could cause havoc, which could strengthen our negotiating position as the EU will be keen to get rid of us.

jeeagles

05 Sep 19 8.50am

The Tories will gain a majority, reverse all the votes we have currently had, and it will be back to where we were a couple of days ago.

People need to realise that we have no route back into the EU and need to try and get the best deal possible.

You won't get a good deal if you rule out a no-deal or publish operation yellowhammer reports.

It's likely our MEP's will now take there seats and could cause havoc, which could strengthen our negotiating position as the EU will be keen to get rid of us.

Matov 05 Sep 19 8.57am
Originally posted by jeeagles It's likely our MEP's will now take there seats and could cause havoc, which could strengthen our negotiating position as the EU will be keen to get rid of us. Or else any extension is vetoed by a member state. That would be ideal. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

05 Sep 19 8.57am

Originally posted by jeeagles

It's likely our MEP's will now take there seats and could cause havoc, which could strengthen our negotiating position as the EU will be keen to get rid of us.

Or else any extension is vetoed by a member state. That would be ideal.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Badger11 Beckenham 05 Sep 19 9.08am
Originally posted by Matov Or else any extension is vetoed by a member state. That would be ideal. C'mon Macron you really don't like us here's your chance to put the boot in. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 05 Sep 19 9.08am

Originally posted by Matov

Or else any extension is vetoed by a member state. That would be ideal.

C'mon Macron you really don't like us here's your chance to put the boot in.

One more point

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Sep 19 9.27am
Originally posted by cryrst We dont know if it will be better,the same or worse. That's the point. All guess work even now. ‘we’ Based on qualified research, and moderate brexiteers points of view your assertion is incorrect in the extreme short term. It’s correct for the medium to long term. Although, you could also say the same for remain, except there would be a short term boost. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 05 Sep 19 9.27am

Originally posted by cryrst

We dont know if it will be better,the same or worse.
That's the point.
All guess work even now.

‘we’

Based on qualified research, and moderate brexiteers points of view your assertion is incorrect in the extreme short term. It’s correct for the medium to long term.

Although, you could also say the same for remain, except there would be a short term boost.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Sep 19 9.30am
Originally posted by dynamicdick Complete rubbish, Parliaments actions are all about No Brexit in the guise of No Deal. Complete disregard of the original 2016 outcome. The Government should be the only ones making the decisions NOT Parliament for the very reason that the majority don’t want Brexit at any cost. Nah. Most politicians want to leave with a deal. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 05 Sep 19 9.30am

Originally posted by dynamicdick

Complete rubbish, Parliaments actions are all about No Brexit in the guise of No Deal. Complete disregard of the original 2016 outcome.

The Government should be the only ones making the decisions NOT Parliament for the very reason that the majority don’t want Brexit at any cost.

Nah. Most politicians want to leave with a deal.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Sep 19 9.39am
Originally posted by dynamicdick Complete rubbish, Parliaments actions are all about No Brexit in the guise of No Deal. Complete disregard of the original 2016 outcome. The Government should be the only ones making the decisions NOT Parliament for the very reason that the majority don’t want Brexit at any cost. Then you are another that doesn't understand how our system actually works and is in favour of a form of dictatorship, although I somehow doubt whether you recognise it. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Sep 19 9.39am

Originally posted by dynamicdick

Complete rubbish, Parliaments actions are all about No Brexit in the guise of No Deal. Complete disregard of the original 2016 outcome.

The Government should be the only ones making the decisions NOT Parliament for the very reason that the majority don’t want Brexit at any cost.

Then you are another that doesn't understand how our system actually works and is in favour of a form of dictatorship, although I somehow doubt whether you recognise it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

steeleye20 Croydon 05 Sep 19 9.40am
Corbyn is a far more able politician than fatty and this has been demonstrated here over the last few days. Trusting that he will not go into an election without a water-tight no-deal bill passed and implemented, so not until after 31st October. What a cock-up and unending daily hassle no-deal would be, I'm grateful if he can stop it.

steeleye20

Croydon 05 Sep 19 9.40am

Corbyn is a far more able politician than fatty and this has been demonstrated here over the last few days.

Trusting that he will not go into an election without a water-tight no-deal bill passed and implemented, so not until after 31st October.

What a cock-up and unending daily hassle no-deal would be, I'm grateful if he can stop it.

Mapletree Croydon 05 Sep 19 9.42am
Originally posted by steeleye20 Corbyn is a far more able politician than fatty and this has been demonstrated here over the last few days. Trusting that he will not go into an election without a water-tight no-deal bill passed and implemented, so not until after 31st October. What a cock-up and unending daily hassle no-deal would be, I'm grateful if he can stop it. Not so An election will be called as soon as Benn’s Bill has Royal Ascent.

Mapletree

Croydon 05 Sep 19 9.42am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Corbyn is a far more able politician than fatty and this has been demonstrated here over the last few days.

Trusting that he will not go into an election without a water-tight no-deal bill passed and implemented, so not until after 31st October.

What a cock-up and unending daily hassle no-deal would be, I'm grateful if he can stop it.

Not so

An election will be called as soon as Benn’s Bill has Royal Ascent.

steeleye20 Croydon 05 Sep 19 9.46am
Originally posted by Mapletree Not so An election will be called as soon as Benn’s Bill has Royal Ascent. Labour MPs may not back that, Starmer said the bill has to be implemented.

steeleye20

Croydon 05 Sep 19 9.46am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Not so

An election will be called as soon as Benn’s Bill has Royal Ascent.

Labour MPs may not back that, Starmer said the bill has to be implemented.

cryrst The garden of England 05 Sep 19 9.54am
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC ‘we’ Based on qualified research, and moderate brexiteers points of view your assertion is incorrect in the extreme short term. It’s correct for the medium to long term. Although, you could also say the same for remain, except there would be a short term boost. Extreme short term is day 1 of leave. Then its medium to long.

cryrst

The garden of England 05 Sep 19 9.54am

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

‘we’

Based on qualified research, and moderate brexiteers points of view your assertion is incorrect in the extreme short term. It’s correct for the medium to long term.

Although, you could also say the same for remain, except there would be a short term boost.

Extreme short term is day 1 of leave.
Then its medium to long.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Sep 19 9.54am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle "The will of parliament" or the will of a handful of MPs? I don't call 28 MPs "the will of parliament" I see. So the 300 or so opposition MPs who voted against don't count? It's only the Tories whose opinions matter? Parliament consists of 650 MPs. Far less than half are Tory. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Sep 19 9.54am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

"The will of parliament" or the will of a handful of MPs?

I don't call 28 MPs "the will of parliament"

I see. So the 300 or so opposition MPs who voted against don't count? It's only the Tories whose opinions matter?

Parliament consists of 650 MPs. Far less than half are Tory.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Midlands Eagle 05 Sep 19 9.56am
Originally posted by Mapletree An election will be called as soon as Benn’s Bill has Royal Ascent. Interesting faux pas from the chief of HOL's spelling police

Midlands Eagle

05 Sep 19 9.56am

Originally posted by Mapletree

An election will be called as soon as Benn’s Bill has Royal Ascent.

Interesting faux pas from the chief of HOL's spelling police

Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Sep 19 10.08am
Can Boris still do a deal with Farage? Is no deal about to become impossible or can it be overturned after a Boris winning general election? I’m beginning to start to think that I’ll just laugh when the huge realisation comes to these young remainers when they realise they want to leave. Whenever that comes, because even Paul Mason the now protester predicted it, I’ll just laugh. But thats what they want. Everyone to give in. Actually it’s just the politicians who are finally having to do something and all we have to do is watch, stroll round to the local polling station and maybe stock up on toilet rolls and carbohydrates like rice and pasta. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 05 Sep 19 10.08am

Can Boris still do a deal with Farage?

Is no deal about to become impossible or can it be overturned after a Boris winning general election?

I’m beginning to start to think that I’ll just laugh when the huge realisation comes to these young remainers when they realise they want to leave. Whenever that comes, because even Paul Mason the now protester predicted it, I’ll just laugh. But thats what they want. Everyone to give in. Actually it’s just the politicians who are finally having to do something and all we have to do is watch, stroll round to the local polling station and maybe stock up on toilet rolls and carbohydrates like rice and pasta.

COYP

Midlands Eagle 05 Sep 19 10.26am
The boss of the CBI has claimed today that businesses can breathe a sigh of relief now that the likelihood of no deal seems to be receding. I wonder what type of deal the CBI and others of that ilk were expecting to get as it seems that they want a free trade agreement before leaving. How likely are the EU to offer that without any strings attached. My guess is not at all and the strings that they will want will be unacceptable to the majority who voted leave

Midlands Eagle

05 Sep 19 10.26am

The boss of the CBI has claimed today that businesses can breathe a sigh of relief now that the likelihood of no deal seems to be receding.

I wonder what type of deal the CBI and others of that ilk were expecting to get as it seems that they want a free trade agreement before leaving.

How likely are the EU to offer that without any strings attached. My guess is not at all and the strings that they will want will be unacceptable to the majority who voted leave

Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Sep 19 10.40am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle The boss of the CBI has claimed today that businesses can breathe a sigh of relief now that the likelihood of no deal seems to be receding. I wonder what type of deal the CBI and others of that ilk were expecting to get as it seems that they want a free trade agreement before leaving. How likely are the EU to offer that without any strings attached. My guess is not at all and the strings that they will want will be unacceptable to the majority who voted leave Customs Union, freedom of movement. Out but really in. Could get worse. Moves on the U.K. financial sector. In the future I’m expecting control of our fiscal and monetary policy and no doubt mandatory into a single European currency. This hugging of our European friends and pretending to all be completely the same seems so romantic but we all know how different we are and how they can’t wait to scoff at us having to wait an extra 20 mins at arrivals with a different passport in hand. Laughing stock? Parliament maybe, but who cares about them when everyone is out and about. The young remainers should ask Mediterranean youngsters what they think about the EU these days. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 05 Sep 19 10.40am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

The boss of the CBI has claimed today that businesses can breathe a sigh of relief now that the likelihood of no deal seems to be receding.

I wonder what type of deal the CBI and others of that ilk were expecting to get as it seems that they want a free trade agreement before leaving.

How likely are the EU to offer that without any strings attached. My guess is not at all and the strings that they will want will be unacceptable to the majority who voted leave

Customs Union, freedom of movement. Out but really in. Could get worse. Moves on the U.K. financial sector.

In the future I’m expecting control of our fiscal and monetary policy and no doubt mandatory into a single European currency.

This hugging of our European friends and pretending to all be completely the same seems so romantic but we all know how different we are and how they can’t wait to scoff at us having to wait an extra 20 mins at arrivals with a different passport in hand.

Laughing stock? Parliament maybe, but who cares about them when everyone is out and about.

The young remainers should ask Mediterranean youngsters what they think about the EU these days.

COYP

Maine Eagle USA 05 Sep 19 11.05am
Originally posted by the silurian Why?? Its obvious that you and others want Brexit cancelled, nothing less will do....So when the GE arrives and we dont like the fact that Corbyn and McDonnel are in charge can we scream for another GE as we dont like the result......17.4 million people are having their vote IGNORED....some democracy that is... and before anyone says it, I live in France so Brexit isnt good for us but the democratic vote was leave so I have to live with the result! Edited by the silurian (04 Sep 2019 6.56pm) Lol. Please read my comments again and you will see why. I already explained that at length. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 05 Sep 19 11.05am

Originally posted by the silurian

Why?? Its obvious that you and others want Brexit cancelled, nothing less will do....So when the GE arrives and we dont like the fact that Corbyn and McDonnel are in charge can we scream for another GE as we dont like the result......17.4 million people are having their vote IGNORED....some democracy that is...

and before anyone says it, I live in France so Brexit isnt good for us but the democratic vote was leave so I have to live with the result!

Edited by the silurian (04 Sep 2019 6.56pm)

Lol.

Please read my comments again and you will see why. I already explained that at length.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle USA 05 Sep 19 11.10am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Really Mainey, you and your regular displays of xenophilia.....perhaps you should be living in a more diverse state other than Maine, which is ninety percent white and hence European old boy. My thoughts on the nation's future has little to do with the EU....It's really more about a principle.....It's a battle for people like me to win....but ultimately, longer term I think the war is lost or in the balance....but that's also for the EU. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2019 6.05pm) I live in Maine because of the National Park here, not the diversity levels. I did live in New York for 10 years though. It’s sad that you see this as a battle, as I assume you are talking about Muslims again, or just people with non white skin, Stirley? Who is your battle against? Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 05 Sep 19 11.10am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Really Mainey, you and your regular displays of xenophilia.....perhaps you should be living in a more diverse state other than Maine, which is ninety percent white and hence European old boy.

My thoughts on the nation's future has little to do with the EU....It's really more about a principle.....It's a battle for people like me to win....but ultimately, longer term I think the war is lost or in the balance....but that's also for the EU.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2019 6.05pm)

I live in Maine because of the National Park here, not the diversity levels.

I did live in New York for 10 years though.

It’s sad that you see this as a battle, as I assume you are talking about Muslims again, or just people with non white skin, Stirley?

Who is your battle against?

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Stirlingsays 05 Sep 19 11.25am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle I live in Maine because of the National Park here, not the diversity levels. I did live in New York for 10 years though. It’s sad that you see this as a battle, as I assume you are talking about Muslims again, or just people with non white skin, Stirley? Who is your battle against? Still on about Muslims on the Brexit thread? Sorry Maine, but if you're going to do the 'isms' and the 'phobias' then things like explanations get you about as much currency as you give your targets. Practice what you preach and continue to live in diversity. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

05 Sep 19 11.25am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

I live in Maine because of the National Park here, not the diversity levels.

I did live in New York for 10 years though.

It’s sad that you see this as a battle, as I assume you are talking about Muslims again, or just people with non white skin, Stirley?

Who is your battle against?

Still on about Muslims on the Brexit thread?

Sorry Maine, but if you're going to do the 'isms' and the 'phobias' then things like explanations get you about as much currency as you give your targets.

Practice what you preach and continue to live in diversity.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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