rattled.com

A good video on the EU army issue.

It highlights just how some on the pro EU side have not been honest.

[Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Oh there will be protests just as certainly as there are the Police to control them.

Managing our divided nation is a very difficult challenge.

We need a charismatic leader we can all believe in as never before but I see no candidate anywhere who has the slightest chance of fulfilling that role.

This isn't now just a fight between Brexit at any cost, Brexit with a "deal" and no Brexit at all.

This is a fight to ensure that our whole system of Parliamentary democracy is not buried by the concept that a referendum can trump it.

Those who wish to see the latter need to reflect long and hard about the long term implications should they achieve their wish.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

The 2016 referendum only becomes history once the result, as promised, is implemented in a meaningful way. Until then, it is at the very centre of our national discourse.

And the longer it remains so, the more it festers and infects every aspect of our lives.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

No, as I have patiently explained countless times referendums have no legal status in the UK system of democracy. They are only ever given any legitimacy by Parliament. So the issue are the manifesto promises made by the political parties and the promise made by the then government in 2016 to respect the result.

Parliament most certainly did not promise to deliver Brexit "no matter what". That's just the interpretation of the hard line leaver. It's not mine nor is it the majority view in Parliament.

Manifesto promises can only ever be intentions. Nothing in life is cast in stone. Events change the way Parliament acts. It has always been thus.

Governments change, so what the Conservative government said in 2016 was updated by the 2017 election.

Parliament argues, and I agree, that they have tried very hard to honour the result of the referendum, which was a very close call anyway. They have never suggested, as a Parliament, that they would not go through with Brexit. All they have said is they won't accept an exit arrangement which in their judgement would harm the country and the union.

As I have also said many times that it is not Parliament's job just to deliver the opinion of those people who believe that the referendum result meant us leaving at any cost. It's their job to do what they believe is in the best interest of the whole country, however they voted, whether they voted or if they couldn't vote. That's the way our democracy functions.

As we go forward, and hold another election, then a new Parliament will have to decide the way forward. It won't be bound in any way by commitments given in 2016 however much people like you believe they ought to be.

So you have no need to feel sorry for me at all. We all need to feel sorry for the country being locked into this huge division which is made worse by the large scale ignorance on display of how our system works and the consequential cynicism being shown about our politicians. A cynicism which is still being exploited by some Leave politicians for their own benefit who ought to know better. Cameron makes some telling points!

Nor did "Stirling" decide to ignore me. He was instructed to do so by the moderator, as I was him.

You, of course, have that choice.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (15 Sep 2019 5.52pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

You must be joking H.

Leaving without a deal, 'do or die' etc. is only the start of brexit.

The only way to stop is just to cancel, forget about leavers and remainers.

Revoke with no blame to anybody and no everlasting brexit.

You and Wisbech need to be retired to a secure facility, ideally with soundproof walls and no internet.

Peter, ffs give us an ignore button. Please.

:'(

It seems that people like you cannot tolerate real democracy in action and just want your own way, threatening mayhem if you don't get it.

He did honour the result, which he profoundly disagreed with, by resigning and allowing the Tories to choose a new leader to sort out the mess. A mess that they had created with the intention to quieten the Eurosceptics for good and consign UKIP to history. It went wrong. A referendum can too easily be hijacked by lies, timing and the winds of chance to be a reliable way to determine what the country really wants, let alone what is in it's best interests.

What people say on the stump should always be taken with a whole packet of salt. Just look at what was on that Leave campaign bus.

Cameron is now just setting the record straight and letting the people know the truth. His publishers are the one's deciding the timing.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

We'd have to negotiate for several years afterwards at the very least just over where in Wisbech the backstop would be. Stirling could offer a new bridge over the Nene. Wisbech could offer us to not accept the result until the result suits him. DanH would have to be Cameron. Hrolf perhaps Farage.

Red and Blue Army!