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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 7.22pm |
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Originally posted by susmik
The facts were shown to you but you disputed them as they did not go along with your own ideas. Gina MIller has been funded all the way through these court cases and still is. Soros did it first and now she has switched to begging for cash online to try and beat the government. You are at it again aren't you? Insults are no substitute for debate nor lies for the truth. Just because you have read something on Facebook or in the Daily Mail or Sun doesn't mean it's true. I gave you the real facts. They are all on the public record so go check them out if you refuse to believe me. Gina Miller was one of several founders of "Best for Britain" who did receive some funding from one of the Soros foundations but she left them in 2017 as they were becoming, in her opinion, too political. She has not, so far as anyone knows, received any funding either directly from him, or via his foundation, for the court cases. These have been crowdfunded. I actually agree that it ought not be down to an individual citizen to have to raise such an important matter in Court or to have to fund it themselves in some way. This ought to be the responsibility of us all and paid for through taxation.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 7.41pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Hang on. Brexit has not actually even been mentioned in the case other than in the opening remarks by Lady Hale when she said they weren't there to judge the merit, or not, of Brexit. It's the actions of Johnson in proroguing Parliament with the aim of reducing it's ability to scrutinise him that is the reason for the case. That Johnson has done that to try to push his vision of Brexit over the line in direct contradiction to his bosses in Parliament is the only involvement. If Johnson had tried the same trick over any other issue then he would have got exactly the same outcome. Parliament must establish its'supremacy remains intact, and accepted by the executive, or our democracy goes onto a slippery slope at the end of which we could easily find things none of us really want.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| W12 18 Sep 19 8.38pm | |
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Literally how much more smug and condescending can these c***s get? I am very close to completely losing my s*** and suspect I’m very much not on my own.
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| Matov 18 Sep 19 8.43pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's just hyperbole. Those fighting this don't all do because they want to remain. Some want to put that option back on the table now the electorate have had more time to consider and more information to use but most are just concerned to avoid unnecessary harm and protect British democracy. Who made Remainers the arbiters of us needing more time to consider? Where was the option mentioned to us in the run up to the vote in 2016? And I am fascinated to understand how you 'protect' British democracy by doing your utmost to have over 17 million votes discarded. Because every single person pushing for a second referendum with 'Remain' as an option is a Remainer. The losers. The ones whose arguments failed. You want A50 revoked. But you still want to think of yourself as one of the good guys. As a democrat. As somebody who believes voting is important. Who hates the thought of dictatorship. And yet will s*** on over 17 million people who voted in total good faith on June 23rd 2016. If people like you were promoting a second referendum on the basis of people being offered either a No-Deal exit or one with a deal, then I might just about be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in terms of your self-proclaimed status as a defender of democracy. But you want the losing 'Remain' option not only included and actually weighted in favour of. Otherwise why not just re-run June 23rd again? If that many people have switched to your side, what is wrong with asking the same question again? I loathe the Lib Dems but they have the courage of their convictions. They believe that Parliament has a duty to ignore what the 52% voted for. I can respect them for that. That stance takes a certain kind of courage. But this 'Peoples vote' bulls***? Nah. That is shameful s***. Because this Brexit mayhem continues and ramps up in ways that hold the potential to rip this nation apart. Because why would I vote ever again? If my vote does not count on June 23rd then it will never count again. It is rendered invalid. All because people who did not even vote Leave somehow think we don't know what the word 'leave' means. And that is all on the likes of you. Not me. I voted Leave and expect my vote to be honoured, just like I was promised. You want to dishonour that, then have the cojenes to be proud of that.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| elgrande bedford 18 Sep 19 8.44pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You are at it again aren't you? Insults are no substitute for debate nor lies for the truth. Just because you have read something on Facebook or in the Daily Mail or Sun doesn't mean it's true. I gave you the real facts. They are all on the public record so go check them out if you refuse to believe me. Gina Miller was one of several founders of "Best for Britain" who did receive some funding from one of the Soros foundations but she left them in 2017 as they were becoming, in her opinion, too political. She has not, so far as anyone knows, received any funding either directly from him, or via his foundation, for the court cases. These have been crowdfunded. I actually agree that it ought not be down to an individual citizen to have to raise such an important matter in Court or to have to fund it themselves in some way. This ought to be the responsibility of us all and paid for through taxation. He has donated over 700k to 3 groups opposing Brexit...personally not through the foundations....400k to the group that Gina Miller belonged in to.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| Matov 18 Sep 19 8.50pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Literally how much more smug and condescending can these c***s get? I am very close to completely losing my s*** and suspect I’m very much not on my own. You are not on your own. I am seeing people now starting to voice all sorts of rage. If we are not out by October 31st then all bets are off. And do not forget that those keenest on s***ting all over 17 million people are the ones who were the smuggest about Remain winning in the first place. And then telling us that Trump never stood a chance. I appreciate that the narrative from Remainers is that it is us Leavers who are meant to be the thick ones but I am sure that I know what the word 'Leave' meant on June 23rd as I am sure you did. The thick ones are these divvy Remainers who seem to struggle with not only maths (52 v 48 ) but also a basic understanding of what simple words mean.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 18 Sep 19 9.07pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Literally how much more smug and condescending can these c***s get? I am very close to completely losing my s*** and suspect I’m very much not on my own.
We are so worried.....
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| .TUX. 18 Sep 19 9.27pm |
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Remainers worry about everything outside of their comfort blanket.
Buy Litecoin. |
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| chris123 hove actually 18 Sep 19 9.28pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
You are not on your own. I am seeing people now starting to voice all sorts of rage. If we are not out by October 31st then all bets are off. And do not forget that those keenest on s***ting all over 17 million people are the ones who were the smuggest about Remain winning in the first place. And then telling us that Trump never stood a chance. I appreciate that the narrative from Remainers is that it is us Leavers who are meant to be the thick ones but I am sure that I know what the word 'Leave' meant on June 23rd as I am sure you did. The thick ones are these divvy Remainers who seem to struggle with not only maths (52 v 48 ) but also a basic understanding of what simple words mean.
And the more pro leave you are, the more right wing you are - or so it seems.
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| Matov 18 Sep 19 9.31pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
And the more pro leave you are, the more right wing you are - or so it seems.
Being anti-EU based on logic is far more a natural stance for traditional left wingers than those on the right.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| DanH SW2 18 Sep 19 9.54pm |
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Must have missed your reply to this, ME. Feel free to correct me as and when.
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| .TUX. 18 Sep 19 9.59pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
And the more pro leave you are, the more right wing you are - or so it seems. Being less Liberal has morphed into being 'far right' - or so it seems.
Buy Litecoin. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 10.11pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Who made Remainers the arbiters of us needing more time to consider? Where was the option mentioned to us in the run up to the vote in 2016? They are not. Parliament is. It wasn't mentioned only because no-one had appreciated quite how complicated it would turn out to be. And I am fascinated to understand how you 'protect' British democracy by doing your utmost to have over 17 million votes discarded. Because every single person pushing for a second referendum with 'Remain' as an option is a Remainer. The losers. The ones whose arguments failed. No votes are being discarded. Things have just evolved and moved on. No referendum trumps either the right or the duties of parliament. It has nothing at all with who voted remain or leave, despite your repeated wish to allocate blame. Those who want a second referendum don't include me, so any explanation I give is simply to try to assist. Those that do think it wise, after all that has transpired, to verify what people want now, and not what they wanted then. You want A50 revoked. But you still want to think of yourself as one of the good guys. As a democrat. As somebody who believes voting is important. Who hates the thought of dictatorship. I want our Parliament to decide. Not me or you. That is how our democracy actually works. Go down the route of allowing the executive to control parliament is a short road to dictatorship. And yet will s*** on over 17 million people who voted in total good faith on June 23rd 2016. If people like you were promoting a second referendum on the basis of people being offered either a No-Deal exit or one with a deal, then I might just about be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in terms of your self-proclaimed status as a defender of democracy. But you want the losing 'Remain' option not only included and actually weighted in favour of. Otherwise why not just re-run June 23rd again? If that many people have switched to your side, what is wrong with asking the same question again? Again, I don't want a referendum but as the one with the 3 options on the ballot seems likely to deliver a result which would see a "deal" winning it seems preferable. What we would get obviously would depend on the make up of the future parliament and that depends on us. All of us together and not just either you or me I loathe the Lib Dems but they have the courage of their convictions. They believe that Parliament has a duty to ignore what the 52% voted for. I can respect them for that. That stance takes a certain kind of courage. No they don't. As I explained above some people think that things have changed sufficiently that there might now be more wishing to remain than leave, and the LibDems will stand on that platform. Right now they are arguing for a new referendum. That's not ignoring the referendum. It's accepting the reality that things don't stand still. But this 'Peoples vote' bulls***? Nah. That is shameful s***. Because this Brexit mayhem continues and ramps up in ways that hold the potential to rip this nation apart. Because why would I vote ever again? If my vote does not count on June 23rd then it will never count again. It is rendered invalid. All because people who did not even vote Leave somehow think we don't know what the word 'leave' means. And that is all on the likes of you. Not me. I voted Leave and expect my vote to be honoured, just like I was promised. You want to dishonour that, then have the cojenes to be proud of that. Not at all. I just think that you don't understand parliamentary democracy and how it works. Maybe one day you will come to understand why I feel so strongly that referendums are such a bad idea. The last 3 years are pretty conclusive evidence.
Edited by Wisbech Eagle (19 Sep 2019 12.06pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 10.17pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
He has donated over 700k to 3 groups opposing Brexit...personally not through the foundations....400k to the group that Gina Miller belonged in to. The money that was given to "Best for Britain" was definitely from a foundation. Mrs Miller was just one of the founders but left quite soon. I have no evidence which supports your other assertions. Do you?
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Teddy Eagle  18 Sep 19 10.22pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
A move to Switzerland seems out of the question then.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 10.22pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I haven’t seen if this has been answered yet but it’s because the choice is either HOL or the bbs where if they could clone a politician, Jeremy Corbyn wouldn’t be Marxist enough. Although they moderate the bbs quite like how the Labour Party is bullies these days. Or it’s been like a chatroom for Momentum years before Corbyn and momentum. It’s funny because it would be great if some of Corbyn’s ideals could be delivered, if he left the the politics of envy and dislike of business at home, but you just know it would go wrong. He couldn’t say no to anything and we’d be screwed pretty quickly. The argument could be that his is a minimum 3 term parliament vision, just like Brexit actually the left don’t want that longer term aim either, which is a big issue in the U.K. Advantages? Yes please. Any disadvantages at all. No fvcking thanks. I haven't looked at the BBS in years as I didn't like the format so have no way of knowing but you may well be right. I wouldn't want a left wing biased debate any more than this right wing dominated one. I prefer one where views can be exchanged in a more balanced way.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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jeeagles  18 Sep 19 10.40pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
And the more pro leave you are, the more right wing you are - or so it seems. That doesn't explain the unions point of view. I've got a load of socialist friends who voted leave to protect workers rights.
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| Matov 18 Sep 19 10.42pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not at all. I just think that you don't understand parliamentary democracy and how it works. Maybe one day you will come to understand why I feel so strongly that referendums are such a bad idea. The last 3 years are pretty conclusive evidence. Help me out then. As I understand it national referendums are rarely used in British politics but when they are, they have to be instigated by Parliament deciding to effectively hand over a specific decision with the wording having to be part of the legislation. And with regards to the June 23rd referendum, the majority of MP's in favour was overwhelming. Not a close-run thing. So we have a simple question. Leave or Remain. Along with a pledge from the Government of the time that the vote will be honoured as well as numerous senior politicians from the range of all strands of political thought mirroring that. And absolutely nothing about Leave requiring a deal with the EU. The vote is held and then counted. 52% of people vote for the UK to leave. On the basis of that, Parliament, once again by a huge majority, agree to start the process for leaving. Then we have a general election. And about 80% of votes cast are done so for two political parties both promising to honour the result on June 23rd. You keep on saying that circumstances are not the same anymore but what has actually fundamentally changed? Now whether you feel referendums are right or wrong is an irrelevance. Parliament decided to hold the one on June 23rd and subsequently started the process by which that result would be implemented. And an election fought on the basis, by the two main parties, that they would honour that. Surely if one of those parties wishes to no longer do that then the correct course of action is to hold another general election as opposed to another referendum which you claim to loathe so much? And if another is held, surely it would have zero credibility given that the result of the first one, in contrast to every other national referendum before that, failed to be implemented? How could you honestly convince people that this time around it would be different? Or am I missing something glaring here? Is my logic wrong?
Edited by Matov (18 Sep 2019 10.45pm)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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