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What is and isn't offensive is subjective. I'm not offended by people blacking up for fancy dress, if I understand their intentions in doing so. There are way bigger things going on in the world to be concerned with. I just think it's ignorant to do so and disregard the negative history behind "blackface" I understand though, that some people do find that offensive and we probably shouldn't tell people what they should and shoulen't feel offended by.
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I normally agree with you but on this I don’t. I agree that the people doing, generally, don’t do it in a frame of mind that is racist in intent. However, it is arguable that the origins of ‘blackface’, from minstrels and performers, was racist in intent and mocked black people. You probably don’t mind, like me, people doing ‘whiteface’ but neither you or I has been subjected to the overt racism and prejudice black people have during history and the cultural significance of people mocking them about their colour. I just think in a civilised society, if a group objects to something happening and there is good reason for that objection, then others should respect their wishes. Nail on the head. It doesn’t take long I to research where blackface came from and the stereotypes and casual ingrained racism that came with it. There is no place for it in 2017.
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Originally posted by coulsdoneagle
Nail on the head. It doesn’t take long I to research where blackface came from and the stereotypes and casual ingrained racism that came with it. There is no place for it in 2017. Also agreed, there are plenty of things on the margins people can argue over, people saying we need to get rid of words like 'blackboard' and pubs named after the fact that miners used to go in covered in coal are important things to argue over, not whether or not you can black up at a sports event...
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Originally posted by Beanyboysmd
there are plenty of things on the margins people can argue over, people saying we need to get rid of words like 'blackboard' and pubs named after the fact that miners used to go in covered in coal are important things to argue over, not whether or not you can black up at a sports event... One can even argue about whether or not darts can be construed as a sport
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Originally posted by Beanyboysmd
That is annoyingly a genuinly brilliant counter! No, but if you were offended by people whiting up after centuries of being opressed and even as recently as a few years ago still being the butt of racist jokes then I would understand it and stand by you on it. Never thought 'White chicks' would ever be used as a a great point on anything, I am genuinly impressed! White Chicks is, of course, an offence to cinema. I live in this cloud cuckoo land where someone's intent is far more important to me than what they say or do - in this case, the joke was on Abbott's inability to count, not on her race (or gender for that matter) so I don't find it offensive. I was escorted from the dancefloor at my mate's wedding by his brothers (all black) "because nobody wants to see a white bloke embarrassing himself by trying to dance" - it was funny and, again, not in the least offensive. My mum still refers to black people as "coloureds" because that was the polite way to refer to them in her day - some people now find that offensive, but it's just an elderly woman trying to do the right thing. If I actually offend you in anything I say, that's regrettable, and I'll likely apologise profusely, and mean it. If you choose to be offended by something I say, that's your problem not mine. The history thing is interesting and I'll have to look into it, because I don't really know much about the history of blackface aside from Morris dancing (fine and nothing to do with race) and the black and white minstrels (awful)
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
One can even argue about whether or not darts can be construed as a sport It takes quite a bit of training to be an alcoholic, who can functional with dexterity, at such a high level.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Originally posted by madcap_v2
What is and isn't offensive is subjective. I'm not offended by people blacking up for fancy dress, if I understand their intentions in doing so. There are way bigger things going on in the world to be concerned with. I just think it's ignorant to do so and disregard the negative history behind "blackface" I understand though, that some people do find that offensive and we probably shouldn't tell people what they should and shoulen't feel offended by. My suspicion is that people who tend to black up, haven't really considered the history of black face. I have a button pin, I really like, that came on a birthday card from my wife, that says "c***". I don't wear it out because, I'm aware that some people don't like the word, and I wouldn't want to p*ss people off who haven't done anything to offend me. I do on occasion wear it at home, when I've got friends round who I know won't be upset - and well its my home. But in public, never. Of course I can wear it, but I choose not to, ironically because I'm not a total c**t. This pretty much sums up black face. Why risk offending people you don't know, just for a cheap laugh for your mates.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
One can even argue about whether or not darts can be construed as a sport Hey, hey, hey! Now you've gone too far.
Optimistic as ever |
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Originally posted by npn
White Chicks is, of course, an offence to cinema. I live in this cloud cuckoo land where someone's intent is far more important to me than what they say or do - in this case, the joke was on Abbott's inability to count, not on her race (or gender for that matter) so I don't find it offensive. I was escorted from the dancefloor at my mate's wedding by his brothers (all black) "because nobody wants to see a white bloke embarrassing himself by trying to dance" - it was funny and, again, not in the least offensive. My mum still refers to black people as "coloureds" because that was the polite way to refer to them in her day - some people now find that offensive, but it's just an elderly woman trying to do the right thing. If I actually offend you in anything I say, that's regrettable, and I'll likely apologise profusely, and mean it. If you choose to be offended by something I say, that's your problem not mine. The history thing is interesting and I'll have to look into it, because I don't really know much about the history of blackface aside from Morris dancing (fine and nothing to do with race) and the black and white minstrels (awful) The Wayans brothers love a dodgy film. Damon starred in another called The Great White Hype.
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Originally posted by Beanyboysmd
That is annoyingly a genuinly brilliant counter! No, but if you were offended by people whiting up after centuries of being opressed and even as recently as a few years ago still being the butt of racist jokes then I would understand it and stand by you on it. Never thought 'White chicks' would ever be used as a a great point on anything, I am genuinly impressed! And when will this honeymoon period of using history as a reason to be especially offended end? People have been abused by other people throughout history, Black, White, Asian, Chinese etc etc. Had it occured to you that getting over it might be the way forward?
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
My suspicion is that people who tend to black up, haven't really considered the history of black face. I have a button pin, I really like, that came on a birthday card from my wife, that says "c***". I don't wear it out because, I'm aware that some people don't like the word, and I wouldn't want to p*ss people off who haven't done anything to offend me. I do on occasion wear it at home, when I've got friends round who I know won't be upset - and well its my home. But in public, never. Of course I can wear it, but I choose not to, ironically because I'm not a total c**t. This pretty much sums up black face. Why risk offending people you don't know, just for a cheap laugh for your mates. And you think that pandering to people who just can't let things stay in the past is progressive? At what point do you think that they will stop finding new things to be offended by?
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Of course I can wear it, but I choose not to, ironically because I'm not a total c**t. This pretty much sums up black face. Why risk offending people you don't know, just for a cheap laugh for your mates. I'm not unsympathetic to this view.....however, just as long as I can do 'sh1ts and giggles' without a copper knocking at my door I think the balance is alright.....Just like a person who tells a sick joke....tell them what you think but that's about it. I can't help thinking about the Mohammad cartoons in relation to this.......Even I as a critic of Islam feel no need to upset people by drawing a picture of their 'perfect man'. It's a puerile action....I prefer to criticise the actual ideas within the religion itself. However, when people go beyond that and say causing offence to others means that your action deserves you being punished by some enforcement arm.......That's when I want to raise my middle finger. Thankfully most on here are saying that actions like 'black face' are worthy of criticism due to insensitivity.....well, that's fair enough. I reserve the right to be offensive to one or many people. Just as I back the right of those cartoonists to draw whatever the feck they wanted. I just don't personally have the desire to upset random people who aren't engaged in the argument.....but secularism is also about protecting the freedom to offend, to mock and so on. However....I note just how quickly in reality that the secular west virtue signalled over those deaths and then abandoned the concept......they won't publish anything.....I mean....none of them will. Just like when the IRA bombed London.....fine words until the elites themselves get scared. Then we find out that those with real money and power are prepared to give away mostly anything rather than deal when sh1t gets real.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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