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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 19 9.30pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You cannot be serious. The trouble is that no one will believe the majority of Remainers if they don't support a deal and then claim that it is because of anything other than party politics. There is every reason to doubt their motives and every reason to pass a deal if it is close to reasonable. Unless of course, you prefer no deal. What cannot happen under any cirumstances is no Brexit. It's you who aren't serious. This has nothing to do with "remainers". It only is to do with Parliament, as a whole, not being prepared to accept a "no deal" or a deal they cannot be confident will work. Sure Corbyn is playing a bit of a game but he can hardly be regarded as a genuine remainer, or actually a genuine anything. He though isn't Parliament. Nevertheless I think we are stumbling towards some kind of "deal", probably after an extension and a GE. Unless, of course, Parliament decides to consult the people again and this time they have come to their senses and decide to give up the whole idea. Those circumstances are definitely possible, if unlikely. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 19 9.30pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You cannot be serious.

The trouble is that no one will believe the majority of Remainers if they don't support a deal and then claim that it is because of anything other than party politics.
There is every reason to doubt their motives and every reason to pass a deal if it is close to reasonable.
Unless of course, you prefer no deal.

What cannot happen under any cirumstances is no Brexit.

It's you who aren't serious.

This has nothing to do with "remainers". It only is to do with Parliament, as a whole, not being prepared to accept a "no deal" or a deal they cannot be confident will work. Sure Corbyn is playing a bit of a game but he can hardly be regarded as a genuine remainer, or actually a genuine anything. He though isn't Parliament.

Nevertheless I think we are stumbling towards some kind of "deal", probably after an extension and a GE.

Unless, of course, Parliament decides to consult the people again and this time they have come to their senses and decide to give up the whole idea. Those circumstances are definitely possible, if unlikely.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 19 9.53pm
Originally posted by YT Ah yes...that voting system that was rejected in another referendum! For GEs yes, at least for the time being, although I personally hope that will change. That though is no reason at all why it cannot be used in these special circumstances if it could be shown to work. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 19 9.53pm

Originally posted by YT

Ah yes...that voting system that was rejected in another referendum!

For GEs yes, at least for the time being, although I personally hope that will change.

That though is no reason at all why it cannot be used in these special circumstances if it could be shown to work.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

dannyboy1978 14 Oct 19 6.08am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle For GEs yes, at least for the time being, although I personally hope that will change. That though is no reason at all why it cannot be used in these special circumstances if it could be shown to work. What are these special circumstances? We are leaving the EU. No it's no buts , Your language is very arrogant like your view is the only right view. With referendums one side will always loose, and you lost yet you still keep harping on .

dannyboy1978

14 Oct 19 6.08am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

For GEs yes, at least for the time being, although I personally hope that will change.

That though is no reason at all why it cannot be used in these special circumstances if it could be shown to work.

What are these special circumstances? We are leaving the EU. No it's no buts ,

Your language is very arrogant like your view is the only right view.
With referendums one side will always loose, and you lost yet you still keep harping on .

dannyboy1978 14 Oct 19 7.18am
Interesting artical [Link] Just a little reminder of what the remoaners want to be a part of.

dannyboy1978

14 Oct 19 7.18am

Interesting artical
[Link]

Just a little reminder of what the remoaners want to be a part of.

chris123 hove actually 14 Oct 19 7.34am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 Interesting artical [Link] Just a little reminder of what the remoaners want to be a part of. IMF related and from 3 years ago!

chris123

hove actually 14 Oct 19 7.34am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Interesting artical
[Link]

Just a little reminder of what the remoaners want to be a part of.

IMF related and from 3 years ago!

dannyboy1978 14 Oct 19 8.14am
Originally posted by chris123 IMF related and from 3 years ago! What's your point?

dannyboy1978

14 Oct 19 8.14am

Originally posted by chris123

IMF related and from 3 years ago!

What's your point?

chris123 hove actually 14 Oct 19 8.20am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 What's your point? Querying why our funding the IMF when George Osborne was chancellor has anything to do with leaving the Union.

chris123

hove actually 14 Oct 19 8.20am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

What's your point?

Querying why our funding the IMF when George Osborne was chancellor has anything to do with leaving the Union.

steeleye20 Croydon 14 Oct 19 9.19am
"Politicians love chaos. Don't ever think otherwise. It gives them authority, and it gives them power. It gives them profile. The idea that they'll fix it for you." He despairs about what he believes in absolutism on the political right and left, libertarian and Leninist with the same objective. To start again after the chaos. Isn't that right -John Le Carre speaking recently. How will they deal with the chaos they invented? Brexit is their current feeding ground - will keep them going for years to come and we fit their 'leavers' and 'remainers' unending conflict. Can the rug be pulled from beneath them? Hardly as only they can stop it themselves.

steeleye20

Croydon 14 Oct 19 9.19am

"Politicians love chaos. Don't ever think otherwise. It gives them authority, and it gives them power. It gives them profile. The idea that they'll fix it for you." He despairs about what he believes in absolutism on the political right and left, libertarian and Leninist with the same objective. To start again after the chaos.

Isn't that right -John Le Carre speaking recently.

How will they deal with the chaos they invented?

Brexit is their current feeding ground - will keep them going for years to come and we fit their 'leavers' and 'remainers' unending conflict.

Can the rug be pulled from beneath them? Hardly as only they can stop it themselves.

Teddy Eagle 14 Oct 19 9.41am
Originally posted by steeleye20 "Politicians love chaos. Don't ever think otherwise. It gives them authority, and it gives them power. It gives them profile. The idea that they'll fix it for you." He despairs about what he believes in absolutism on the political right and left, libertarian and Leninist with the same objective. To start again after the chaos. Isn't that right -John Le Carre speaking recently. How will they deal with the chaos they invented? Brexit is their current feeding ground - will keep them going for years to come and we fit their 'leavers' and 'remainers' unending conflict. Can the rug be pulled from beneath them? Hardly as only they can stop it themselves. That’s an interesting take on the situation - Anarchy in the UK? A few MPs are certainly Pretty Vacant.

Teddy Eagle

14 Oct 19 9.41am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Isn't that right -John Le Carre speaking recently.

How will they deal with the chaos they invented?

Brexit is their current feeding ground - will keep them going for years to come and we fit their 'leavers' and 'remainers' unending conflict.

Can the rug be pulled from beneath them? Hardly as only they can stop it themselves.

That’s an interesting take on the situation - Anarchy in the UK? A few MPs are certainly Pretty Vacant.

mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 14 Oct 19 9.54am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It's you who aren't serious. This has nothing to do with "remainers". It only is to do with Parliament, as a whole, not being prepared to accept a "no deal" or a deal they cannot be confident will work. Sure Corbyn is playing a bit of a game but he can hardly be regarded as a genuine remainer, or actually a genuine anything. He though isn't Parliament. Nevertheless I think we are stumbling towards some kind of "deal", probably after an extension and a GE. Unless, of course, Parliament decides to consult the people again and this time they have come to their senses and decide to give up the whole idea. Those circumstances are definitely possible, if unlikely. And what are most of Parliament? Remainers. You've summed up why people are p8ssed off there in a nutshell. They won't accept it. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 14 Oct 19 9.54am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's you who aren't serious.

This has nothing to do with "remainers". It only is to do with Parliament, as a whole, not being prepared to accept a "no deal" or a deal they cannot be confident will work. Sure Corbyn is playing a bit of a game but he can hardly be regarded as a genuine remainer, or actually a genuine anything. He though isn't Parliament.

Nevertheless I think we are stumbling towards some kind of "deal", probably after an extension and a GE.

And what are most of Parliament? Remainers. You've summed up why people are p8ssed off there in a nutshell. They won't accept it.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 10.20am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 What are these special circumstances? We are leaving the EU. No it's no buts , There are many "ifs and buts", although clearly many haven't yet, and may never, come to terms with that fact.The special circumstances are the fact that we haven't yet left as a consequence of our Parliament failing to find a way they can accept for us to leave. As that is their job we all have to wait until they do. If Parliament decide that they want to consult the people again then that's their decision. Your language is very arrogant like your view is the only right view. With referendums one side will always loose, and you lost yet you still keep harping on . Referendums don't have winners or losers. That's a basic misconception held by many (including Farage) who believe that because the 2016 result showed a 52:48 preference in favour of leaving that they "won". Referendums have NO legal status in the UK. They are a way of "referring" a question to the people but ultimately it is always down to Parliament to take the action needed. Cameron made statements as the PM that indicated he was passing the decision to the people, but his words carried no legal status at all, because he wasn't Parliament, he was PM. Exactly the same as now Johnson cannot make legally binding statements. Only Parliament can do that. The parties committed to enact Article 50 and they did, but have since got themselves into a situation where no agreement is being found. It needs to be resolved but just how it will be is as yet unknown. One thing though is quite certain. Everyone has lost as a consequence of these divisions. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 10.20am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

What are these special circumstances? We are leaving the EU. No it's no buts ,

There are many "ifs and buts", although clearly many haven't yet, and may never, come to terms with that fact.The special circumstances are the fact that we haven't yet left as a consequence of our Parliament failing to find a way they can accept for us to leave. As that is their job we all have to wait until they do. If Parliament decide that they want to consult the people again then that's their decision.

Your language is very arrogant like your view is the only right view.
With referendums one side will always loose, and you lost yet you still keep harping on .

Referendums don't have winners or losers. That's a basic misconception held by many (including Farage) who believe that because the 2016 result showed a 52:48 preference in favour of leaving that they "won". Referendums have NO legal status in the UK. They are a way of "referring" a question to the people but ultimately it is always down to Parliament to take the action needed. Cameron made statements as the PM that indicated he was passing the decision to the people, but his words carried no legal status at all, because he wasn't Parliament, he was PM. Exactly the same as now Johnson cannot make legally binding statements. Only Parliament can do that. The parties committed to enact Article 50 and they did, but have since got themselves into a situation where no agreement is being found. It needs to be resolved but just how it will be is as yet unknown. One thing though is quite certain. Everyone has lost as a consequence of these divisions.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

DANGERCLOSE London 14 Oct 19 10.35am
[Tweet Link]

DANGERCLOSE

London 14 Oct 19 10.35am

[Tweet Link]

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 10.37am
Originally posted by steeleye20 "Politicians love chaos. Don't ever think otherwise. It gives them authority, and it gives them power. It gives them profile. The idea that they'll fix it for you." He despairs about what he believes in absolutism on the political right and left, libertarian and Leninist with the same objective. To start again after the chaos. Isn't that right -John Le Carre speaking recently. How will they deal with the chaos they invented? Brexit is their current feeding ground - will keep them going for years to come and we fit their 'leavers' and 'remainers' unending conflict. Can the rug be pulled from beneath them? Hardly as only they can stop it themselves. I think that's only true of those on the extreme wings of the political divide, which unfortunately have come to dominate both our major parties in recent years. We have already seen a movement back towards the consensus politics of the centre as the LibDems re-energise and start to collect MPs from the moderate wings of the majors. Whether this will continue, or whether one of the majors reverts back to the centre ground again, is as yet unknown and depends on the final outcome of the chaos we are now in. I have long dreamed of the emergence of a strong central party but my hopes have continually been dashed. The problem they always seem to have is not where their support would come from, as I truly think that the majority of the people are moderate in outlook, but who would help fund them. It would be a brave move for some of the traditional funders of both the Tories and Labour to shift their support but I can just about manage to see it happening. Industry is pretty hacked off with the current Tory party and some of the more moderate unions not very happy with Corbyn. Let's hope. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 10.37am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Isn't that right -John Le Carre speaking recently.

How will they deal with the chaos they invented?

Brexit is their current feeding ground - will keep them going for years to come and we fit their 'leavers' and 'remainers' unending conflict.

Can the rug be pulled from beneath them? Hardly as only they can stop it themselves.

I think that's only true of those on the extreme wings of the political divide, which unfortunately have come to dominate both our major parties in recent years. We have already seen a movement back towards the consensus politics of the centre as the LibDems re-energise and start to collect MPs from the moderate wings of the majors.

Whether this will continue, or whether one of the majors reverts back to the centre ground again, is as yet unknown and depends on the final outcome of the chaos we are now in.

I have long dreamed of the emergence of a strong central party but my hopes have continually been dashed. The problem they always seem to have is not where their support would come from, as I truly think that the majority of the people are moderate in outlook, but who would help fund them.

It would be a brave move for some of the traditional funders of both the Tories and Labour to shift their support but I can just about manage to see it happening. Industry is pretty hacked off with the current Tory party and some of the more moderate unions not very happy with Corbyn. Let's hope.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

steeleye20 Croydon 14 Oct 19 11.28am
Boris Johnson's Brexit plan would leave everyone in the UK £2,000 worse off, study finds...... For those of us who just want to 'get it done'.

steeleye20

Croydon 14 Oct 19 11.28am

Boris Johnson's Brexit plan would leave everyone in the UK £2,000 worse off, study finds......

For those of us who just want to 'get it done'.

dannyboy1978 14 Oct 19 11.32am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I voted leave to better my country long term, that's being a winner and my vote helped win the referendum so I class my self as a winner,

dannyboy1978

14 Oct 19 11.32am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I voted leave to better my country long term, that's being a winner and my vote helped win the referendum so I class my self as a winner,

Matov 14 Oct 19 11.34am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle No-body regards people who think like you as fools. They just think you are unable to see that things have evolved to the point that what happened in 2016 is no longer the only consideration. That's life and fighting yesterday's battles is rather pointless. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (13 Oct 2019 2.15pm) Evolved? When did the basic democratic principle of the pile with the most votes in it being deemed the winning one 'evolve' ? And Remain is yesterdays battle. It lost. Remember that? Edited by Matov (14 Oct 2019 11.35am) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

14 Oct 19 11.34am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No-body regards people who think like you as fools. They just think you are unable to see that things have evolved to the point that what happened in 2016 is no longer the only consideration. That's life and fighting yesterday's battles is rather pointless.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (13 Oct 2019 2.15pm)

Evolved? When did the basic democratic principle of the pile with the most votes in it being deemed the winning one 'evolve' ?

And Remain is yesterdays battle. It lost. Remember that?

Edited by Matov (14 Oct 2019 11.35am)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

dannyboy1978 14 Oct 19 11.37am
Originally posted by steeleye20 Boris Johnson's Brexit plan would leave everyone in the UK £2,000 worse off, study finds...... For those of us who just want to 'get it done'. Your having a laugh, arnt you? This is whilst we are in the EU. [Link] 36K PER PERSON!!! 2k really won't make much of a difference for a better future.

dannyboy1978

14 Oct 19 11.37am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Boris Johnson's Brexit plan would leave everyone in the UK £2,000 worse off, study finds......

For those of us who just want to 'get it done'.

Your having a laugh, arnt you?
This is whilst we are in the EU.

[Link]

36K PER PERSON!!!
2k really won't make much of a difference for a better future.

Spiderman Horsham 14 Oct 19 12.00pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Boris Johnson's Brexit plan would leave everyone in the UK £2,000 worse off, study finds...... For those of us who just want to 'get it done'. Who carried out this study and who financed it? A link would be useful, if you have one

Spiderman

Horsham 14 Oct 19 12.00pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Boris Johnson's Brexit plan would leave everyone in the UK £2,000 worse off, study finds......

For those of us who just want to 'get it done'.

Who carried out this study and who financed it? A link would be useful, if you have one

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 12.35pm
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 I voted leave to better my country long term, that's being a winner and my vote helped win the referendum so I class my self as a winner, You can class yourself whichever way you want. How you think is entirely up to you. Deciding what actually happens depends on how our Parliament thinks, and not whether you think you "won". For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 Oct 19 12.35pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

I voted leave to better my country long term, that's being a winner and my vote helped win the referendum so I class my self as a winner,

You can class yourself whichever way you want. How you think is entirely up to you.

Deciding what actually happens depends on how our Parliament thinks, and not whether you think you "won".

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

dannyboy1978 14 Oct 19 12.43pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You can class yourself whichever way you want. How you think is entirely up to you. Deciding what actually happens depends on how our Parliament thinks, and not whether you think you "won". Three prime minister's said out is out and a majority voted for artical 50, for the referendum parliment agreed to. As leave I did win.

dannyboy1978

14 Oct 19 12.43pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You can class yourself whichever way you want. How you think is entirely up to you.

Deciding what actually happens depends on how our Parliament thinks, and not whether you think you "won".

Three prime minister's said out is out and a majority voted for artical 50, for the referendum parliment agreed to.

As leave I did win.

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