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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 5.37pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Total lies and more lies. Most want this farce to end as quickly as possible by leaving. I am sure they do, but not at a price we ought not to pay. It's Parliament's job to make sure that deal fatigue doesn't overpower reason. You don't quit just because you are tired. The general public are no more qualified to make these decisions now than in 2016. You can make these same old excuses 1000 times and they will still be bulls*. Qualified, probably not. Informed and better able most certainly they are. Most members of the public will now have a better overall view than even the most informed did in 2016.** Hard core Remainers will never be satisfied by any deal and that is why their opinion on a deal is irrelevant I don't see any "hard core" Remainers. I see people who have always thought that remaining was better but who accepted Parliament's decisions. Now they want Parliament to test that the people want to leave with the actual arrangements that have been negotiated rather than the unknown situation in 2016. You don't like it! That's your opinion. Let's see what Parliament finally decide to do. It's their decision and not your's or mine. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 5.37pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Total lies and more lies.

Most want this farce to end as quickly as possible by leaving.

I am sure they do, but not at a price we ought not to pay. It's Parliament's job to make sure that deal fatigue doesn't overpower reason. You don't quit just because you are tired.

The general public are no more qualified to make these decisions now than in 2016. You can make these same old excuses 1000 times and they will still be bulls***.

Qualified, probably not. Informed and better able most certainly they are. Most members of the public will now have a better overall view than even the most informed did in 2016.

Hard core Remainers will never be satisfied by any deal and that is why their opinion on a deal is irrelevant

I don't see any "hard core" Remainers. I see people who have always thought that remaining was better but who accepted Parliament's decisions. Now they want Parliament to test that the people want to leave with the actual arrangements that have been negotiated rather than the unknown situation in 2016. You don't like it! That's your opinion. Let's see what Parliament finally decide to do. It's their decision and not your's or mine.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 5.38pm
Originally posted by cryrst He may be sincere and honest. That though does not mean he hasn't got a personal opinion on brexit. His is that remain is the best in his own personal view. He cannot be independent if he has an opinion. Has he said which way he voted. If he hasnt then he should do. If so someone without a vote ATM should be running as speaker if it is about brexit. This was about Letwin and not about Bercow! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 5.38pm

Originally posted by cryrst

He may be sincere and honest.
That though does not mean he hasn't got a personal opinion on brexit.
His is that remain is the best in his own personal view.
He cannot be independent if he has an opinion.
Has he said which way he voted.
If he hasnt then he should do.
If so someone without a vote ATM should be running as speaker if it is about brexit.

This was about Letwin and not about Bercow!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

cryrst The garden of England 20 Oct 19 5.50pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle This was about Letwin and not about Bercow! Check back wissy. It's a reply to your speaker defense.

cryrst

The garden of England 20 Oct 19 5.50pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This was about Letwin and not about Bercow!

Check back wissy.
It's a reply to your speaker defense.

Hrolf The Ganger 20 Oct 19 5.55pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Now they want Parliament to test that the people want to leave with the actual arrangements that have been negotiated rather than the unknown situation in 2016. A referendum on Boris' deal v no deal then. We cannot rerun the first referendum for obvious reasons. Obvious to someone with a brain that is.

Hrolf The Ganger

20 Oct 19 5.55pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Now they want Parliament to test that the people want to leave with the actual arrangements that have been negotiated rather than the unknown situation in 2016.

A referendum on Boris' deal v no deal then.

We cannot rerun the first referendum for obvious reasons.
Obvious to someone with a brain that is.

Midlands Eagle 20 Oct 19 5.58pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I just believe leaving to be, on balance, the wrong decision and that some people were influenced by malign activity sufficient to tip the balance. Equally many people may have voted to remain due to George Osborne's declaration that even voting to leave would bring the economy crashing down and he would be forced to hold an emergency budget

Midlands Eagle

20 Oct 19 5.58pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I just believe leaving to be, on balance, the wrong decision and that some people were influenced by malign activity sufficient to tip the balance.

Equally many people may have voted to remain due to George Osborne's declaration that even voting to leave would bring the economy crashing down and he would be forced to hold an emergency budget

cryrst The garden of England 20 Oct 19 5.59pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What do you think they were doing when they triggered Article 50? Everything since has been about how we exit and not if. Now, given all the time that has elapsed, there is a growing mood that the people should verify whether they want the way that has been negotiated or has their opinion changed in the intervening years and with their greater knowledge. As this is a big step, and we all understand the complexities better, and we have the opportunity, I can understand the argument. Just as I can understand the one that says more delay causes more uncertainty. How can opinion change and knowledge be compatible in any way shape or form. That's spin and you know it. How about my opinion has changed and I now want to leave. How about my knowledge is tha it would benefit me to leave. There you go. Disect that then clever clogs. As has been said. Remain will want remain. Leave will want leave. You are remain and you cannot give a 100% decent truthful fact why. You know why? Because it's your opinion that leaving will make it worse. Not your knowledge at all.

cryrst

The garden of England 20 Oct 19 5.59pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What do you think they were doing when they triggered Article 50?

Everything since has been about how we exit and not if. Now, given all the time that has elapsed, there is a growing mood that the people should verify whether they want the way that has been negotiated or has their opinion changed in the intervening years and with their greater knowledge. As this is a big step, and we all understand the complexities better, and we have the opportunity, I can understand the argument. Just as I can understand the one that says more delay causes more uncertainty.

How can opinion change and knowledge be compatible in any way shape or form.
That's spin and you know it.
How about my opinion has changed and I now want to leave.
How about my knowledge is tha it would benefit me to leave.
There you go.
Disect that then clever clogs.
As has been said.
Remain will want remain.
Leave will want leave.
You are remain and you cannot give a 100% decent truthful fact why.
You know why?
Because it's your opinion that leaving will make it worse.
Not your knowledge at all.

Midlands Eagle 20 Oct 19 5.59pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle If he went on his own time in a private capacity then he has absolutely no reason to reveal if he was supported in some way. He could not have done any negotiation. All he could have done was explanation. Why would have been invited if not because he was an MP and in a position to influence others

Midlands Eagle

20 Oct 19 5.59pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If he went on his own time in a private capacity then he has absolutely no reason to reveal if he was supported in some way. He could not have done any negotiation. All he could have done was explanation.

Why would have been invited if not because he was an MP and in a position to influence others

Midlands Eagle 20 Oct 19 6.00pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger A referendum on Boris' deal v no deal then. We cannot rerun the first referendum for obvious reasons. Obvious to someone with a brain that is. I'll drink to that

Midlands Eagle

20 Oct 19 6.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

A referendum on Boris' deal v no deal then.

We cannot rerun the first referendum for obvious reasons.
Obvious to someone with a brain that is.

I'll drink to that

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 20 Oct 19 6.42pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle There is a significant proportion of the people who think as I do, so hardly just according to me. It's only here that I am outnumbered. I have never ever suggested that all leavers are "thick". Every group has a mixture of types within it and this is no different. I just believe leaving to be, on balance, the wrong decision and that some people were influenced by malign activity sufficient to tip the balance. Remember the gap was only 4% so it would have only taken 2% of the voters to have been so influenced to make the difference. Oh yes you have wissy, you frequently refer to 'people like you' if someone disagrees with your remainer opinion...what are 'people like you' if you dont mean thick for not having the same ideas as you, a remainer..? As for your assertion that you dont see ANY hardcore remainers, go switch on your tv and see 1000s of them protesting outside Parliament EVERY day, you know, the ones with no jobs and EU flags wrapped round their shoulders are they not HARDCORE remainers? If not how would you describe them? Edited by the silurian (20 Oct 2019 6.46pm)

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 20 Oct 19 6.42pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There is a significant proportion of the people who think as I do, so hardly just according to me. It's only here that I am outnumbered.

I have never ever suggested that all leavers are "thick". Every group has a mixture of types within it and this is no different. I just believe leaving to be, on balance, the wrong decision and that some people were influenced by malign activity sufficient to tip the balance. Remember the gap was only 4% so it would have only taken 2% of the voters to have been so influenced to make the difference.

Oh yes you have wissy, you frequently refer to 'people like you' if someone disagrees with your remainer opinion...what are 'people like you' if you dont mean thick for not having the same ideas as you, a remainer..? As for your assertion that you dont see ANY hardcore remainers, go switch on your tv and see 1000s of them protesting outside Parliament EVERY day, you know, the ones with no jobs and EU flags wrapped round their shoulders are they not HARDCORE remainers? If not how would you describe them?

Edited by the silurian (20 Oct 2019 6.46pm)

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 20 Oct 19 6.49pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What do you think they were doing when they triggered Article 50? Everything since has been about how we exit and not if. Now, given all the time that has elapsed, there is a growing mood that the people should verify whether they want the way that has been negotiated or has their opinion changed in the intervening years and with their greater knowledge. As this is a big step, and we all understand the complexities better, and we have the opportunity, I can understand the argument. Just as I can understand the one that says more delay causes more uncertainty. Just a thought wissy, suppose we have another referendum and it goes in favour of leave, what will you do, call for best of 5 or just spontaneously combust??

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 20 Oct 19 6.49pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What do you think they were doing when they triggered Article 50?

Just a thought wissy, suppose we have another referendum and it goes in favour of leave, what will you do, call for best of 5 or just spontaneously combust??

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.17pm
Originally posted by cryrst Check back wissy. It's a reply to your speaker defense. I know what your reply was about but you were replying to the wrong comment. So you are the one who needs to do the checking. The comment was a follow on about Letwin. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.17pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Check back wissy.
It's a reply to your speaker defense.

I know what your reply was about but you were replying to the wrong comment. So you are the one who needs to do the checking. The comment was a follow on about Letwin.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.20pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger A referendum on Boris' deal v no deal then. We cannot rerun the first referendum for obvious reasons. Obvious to someone with a brain that is. Of course we won't rerun the first referendum! That was in 2016 and it wouldn't be until 2020. It would ask a different question on a different basis but would, almost certainly, ask if the people, in the light of their greater knowledge, still wanted to leave, and if so how. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

A referendum on Boris' deal v no deal then.

We cannot rerun the first referendum for obvious reasons.
Obvious to someone with a brain that is.

Of course we won't rerun the first referendum! That was in 2016 and it wouldn't be until 2020.

It would ask a different question on a different basis but would, almost certainly, ask if the people, in the light of their greater knowledge, still wanted to leave, and if so how.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.41pm
Originally posted by cryrst How can opinion change and knowledge be compatible in any way shape or form. That's spin and you know it. How about my opinion has changed and I now want to leave. How about my knowledge is tha it would benefit me to leave. There you go. Disect that then clever clogs. As has been said. Remain will want remain. Leave will want leave. You are remain and you cannot give a 100% decent truthful fact why. You know why? Because it's your opinion that leaving will make it worse. Not your knowledge at all. My own opinion has hardened that leaving would makes things worse, because I now know more. That though doesn't mean that I think we will as I want Parliament to do it's job and decide what, on balance, they consider is best for us ALL. Not just me! There will be plenty of people whose opinions haven't changed at all, either way. Some will have though, both ways, as a consequence of the intervening years of experience. The idea that everyone has a set opinion and no amount of new "information", whether truthful or false, will change it is simply nonsensical. I resent the suggestion I am not truthful. You might not agree with me but that is no reason to doubt my integrity. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.41pm

Originally posted by cryrst

My own opinion has hardened that leaving would makes things worse, because I now know more. That though doesn't mean that I think we will as I want Parliament to do it's job and decide what, on balance, they consider is best for us ALL. Not just me!

There will be plenty of people whose opinions haven't changed at all, either way. Some will have though, both ways, as a consequence of the intervening years of experience. The idea that everyone has a set opinion and no amount of new "information", whether truthful or false, will change it is simply nonsensical.

I resent the suggestion I am not truthful. You might not agree with me but that is no reason to doubt my integrity.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.45pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Equally many people may have voted to remain due to George Osborne's declaration that even voting to leave would bring the economy crashing down and he would be forced to hold an emergency budget Doubtless they were and they had every right to be. It was a forecast which hasn't YET materialised but many still fear it will. Forecasts can be wrong. They aren't lies. They are just forecasts. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.45pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Equally many people may have voted to remain due to George Osborne's declaration that even voting to leave would bring the economy crashing down and he would be forced to hold an emergency budget

Doubtless they were and they had every right to be.

It was a forecast which hasn't YET materialised but many still fear it will.

Forecasts can be wrong. They aren't lies. They are just forecasts.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Hrolf The Ganger 20 Oct 19 7.45pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Of course we won't rerun the first referendum! That was in 2016 and it wouldn't be until 2020. It would ask a different question on a different basis but would, almost certainly, ask if the people, in the light of their greater knowledge, still wanted to leave, and if so how. The option to remain was eliminated in the original referendum. The idea that the 2016 result is somehow out of date because Remainers have conspired to delay Brexit this long is so clearly self serving and illogical that it is astonishing that anyone who claims to be intelligent would seriously float it.

Hrolf The Ganger

20 Oct 19 7.45pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course we won't rerun the first referendum! That was in 2016 and it wouldn't be until 2020.

It would ask a different question on a different basis but would, almost certainly, ask if the people, in the light of their greater knowledge, still wanted to leave, and if so how.

The option to remain was eliminated in the original referendum.
The idea that the 2016 result is somehow out of date because Remainers have conspired to delay Brexit
this long is so clearly self serving and illogical that it is astonishing that anyone who claims to be intelligent would seriously float it.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.47pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Why would have been invited if not because he was an MP and in a position to influence others Of course because he had knowledge that he could share. He cares. You might not care for his views but he has every right to share them with who ever he chooses to. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.47pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Why would have been invited if not because he was an MP and in a position to influence others

Of course because he had knowledge that he could share. He cares. You might not care for his views but he has every right to share them with who ever he chooses to.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

steeleye20 Croydon 20 Oct 19 7.49pm
'Jog on with your daft ideas'. Corbyn on Johnson. Got to hand it to him, at his age after 'Super Saturday' appearing at a large rally in Liverpool. He is touring large cities over the next few weeks no doubt to gear everybody up for the fight.

steeleye20

Croydon 20 Oct 19 7.49pm

'Jog on with your daft ideas'.

Corbyn on Johnson.

Got to hand it to him, at his age after 'Super Saturday' appearing at a large rally in Liverpool.

He is touring large cities over the next few weeks no doubt to gear everybody up for the fight.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.51pm
Originally posted by the silurian Oh yes you have wissy, you frequently refer to 'people like you' if someone disagrees with your remainer opinion...what are 'people like you' if you dont mean thick for not having the same ideas as you, a remainer..? As for your assertion that you dont see ANY hardcore remainers, go switch on your tv and see 1000s of them protesting outside Parliament EVERY day, you know, the ones with no jobs and EU flags wrapped round their shoulders are they not HARDCORE remainers? If not how would you describe them? Edited by the silurian (20 Oct 2019 6.46pm) "People like you" doesn't contain any suggestion that they, or you, are "thick" does it? It simply means people who think, or behave, in the same way. Just like the people protesting yesterday have similar opinions. Perhaps that you make assumptions ought to cause you to reflect. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 7.51pm

Originally posted by the silurian

Edited by the silurian (20 Oct 2019 6.46pm)

"People like you" doesn't contain any suggestion that they, or you, are "thick" does it?

It simply means people who think, or behave, in the same way. Just like the people protesting yesterday have similar opinions.

Perhaps that you make assumptions ought to cause you to reflect.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 20 Oct 19 7.55pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle "People like you" doesn't contain any suggestion that they, or you, are "thick" does it? It simply means people who think, or behave, in the same way. Just like the people protesting yesterday have similar opinions. Perhaps that you make assumptions ought to cause you to reflect. There you go again!! What about all the jobless benefit claimimg protesters outside Parliament day after day....are they not hardcore remainers??? Maybe you should reflect before making ridiculous statements like 'I see no hardcore remainers' when all you need to do is look in a mirror!! Edited by the silurian (20 Oct 2019 7.57pm)

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 20 Oct 19 7.55pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

"People like you" doesn't contain any suggestion that they, or you, are "thick" does it?

It simply means people who think, or behave, in the same way. Just like the people protesting yesterday have similar opinions.

Perhaps that you make assumptions ought to cause you to reflect.

There you go again!! What about all the jobless benefit claimimg protesters outside Parliament day after day....are they not hardcore remainers??? Maybe you should reflect before making ridiculous statements like 'I see no hardcore remainers' when all you need to do is look in a mirror!!

Edited by the silurian (20 Oct 2019 7.57pm)

cryrst The garden of England 20 Oct 19 8.53pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle My own opinion has hardened that leaving would makes things worse, because I now know more. That though doesn't mean that I think we will as I want Parliament to do it's job and decide what, on balance, they consider is best for us ALL. Not just me! There will be plenty of people whose opinions haven't changed at all, either way. Some will have though, both ways, as a consequence of the intervening years of experience. The idea that everyone has a set opinion and no amount of new "information", whether truthful or false, will change it is simply nonsensical. I resent the suggestion I am not truthful. You might not agree with me but that is no reason to doubt my integrity. Still your opinion only though. Where is this knowledge and information you have acquired to allow you to know more about the disaster you think brexit will be. You must be an expert on The environment,workers rights,immigration,tax,road haulage, and all other parts of the UK's operation. Alongside reading 563 pages of the deal. Wow wissy you truly are amazing; or just a partizan remainer with your own opinion.

cryrst

The garden of England 20 Oct 19 8.53pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I resent the suggestion I am not truthful. You might not agree with me but that is no reason to doubt my integrity.

Still your opinion only though.
Where is this knowledge and information you have acquired to allow you to know more about the disaster you think brexit will be.
You must be an expert on
The environment,workers rights,immigration,tax,road haulage, and all other parts of the UK's operation.
Alongside reading 563 pages of the deal.
Wow wissy you truly are amazing; or just a partizan remainer with your own opinion.

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