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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 17 1.44pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Because back in 1990 the way it worked Mr Singleton with no kids on £11k a year in his small flat was paying the same to the local authority for whatnot as 5 member family Mr Rich on £30k a year in his 4 bed detached and they both lived in the same street. And Mrs Rich was in trouble. She looked after the young kids, had no income apart from housekeeping, but another Poll Tax bill kept landing on the doorstep addressed to her. Then the Tories and their new laws started jailing people who literally couldn't pay and the rest is history. Bye, bye Margaret. Edited by Kermit8 (12 Oct 2017 1.14pm) I think that is a gross oversimplification. People pay all kinds of 'unfair' bills without question but when it is focused on the 'evil Tories', suddenly everyone gets mobilised. Funny that. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Oct 2017 1.44pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Oct 17 1.44pm

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Originally posted by Kermit8

Because back in 1990 the way it worked Mr Singleton with no kids on £11k a year in his small flat was paying the same to the local authority for whatnot as 5 member family Mr Rich on £30k a year in his 4 bed detached and they both lived in the same street.

And Mrs Rich was in trouble. She looked after the young kids, had no income apart from housekeeping, but another Poll Tax bill kept landing on the doorstep addressed to her.

Then the Tories and their new laws started jailing people who literally couldn't pay and the rest is history. Bye, bye Margaret.

Edited by Kermit8 (12 Oct 2017 1.14pm)

I think that is a gross oversimplification. People pay all kinds of 'unfair' bills without question but when it is focused on the 'evil Tories', suddenly everyone gets mobilised. Funny that.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Oct 2017 1.44pm)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Oct 17 1.46pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Arguably, the insane war reparations demands, and then the 1929 Stock Market Crash and its impact on the world economy, and how this impacted Germany, pretty much ensured that either the Communists or the Fascists / National Socialists, were going to become major political players in Germany. Usually, people are much more inspired by economic disasters to 'do something'. Most people fighting for IS in Syria are doing it because they pay well. Not everyone is a fanatic - The same applied with the Iraqi Insurgency - Sunni's found work impossible to come by, there was 400,000 laid off from the military - and the insurgents were paying for ex-military. Most people respond to economic incentives far more than religious ones. Look at poor areas, and you'll see the extremists recruit mostly there. I agree with what you're saying regarding lack of opportunities do invite people into terrorism. It has for time, and although it can be argued it applies in France and Belgium, it doesn't in Germany or Britain. These here are vermin and have opportunities in a near post code. It isn't inevitable and our fault they're (thousands of them) manipulated to go to Syria, learn cowardly combat and return to blow up or machete innocent people unable to defend themselves, with many secretly okay it's happening when surveyed. I'm also aware aware of enough middle eastern politics and military strategy at the time and the IS rising in Iraq prisons to understand that side. It doesn't excuse British Muslims going back and forth with the intention to murder in this country where plenty have opportunities and benefits available. Get yourselves employable or fvck off if this country isn't for you. Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Oct 2017 1.52pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 12 Oct 17 1.46pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Arguably, the insane war reparations demands, and then the 1929 Stock Market Crash and its impact on the world economy, and how this impacted Germany, pretty much ensured that either the Communists or the Fascists / National Socialists, were going to become major political players in Germany.

Usually, people are much more inspired by economic disasters to 'do something'. Most people fighting for IS in Syria are doing it because they pay well. Not everyone is a fanatic - The same applied with the Iraqi Insurgency - Sunni's found work impossible to come by, there was 400,000 laid off from the military - and the insurgents were paying for ex-military.

Most people respond to economic incentives far more than religious ones. Look at poor areas, and you'll see the extremists recruit mostly there.

I agree with what you're saying regarding lack of opportunities do invite people into terrorism. It has for time, and although it can be argued it applies in France and Belgium, it doesn't in Germany or Britain. These here are vermin and have opportunities in a near post code. It isn't inevitable and our fault they're (thousands of them) manipulated to go to Syria, learn cowardly combat and return to blow up or machete innocent people unable to defend themselves, with many secretly okay it's happening when surveyed.

I'm also aware aware of enough middle eastern politics and military strategy at the time and the IS rising in Iraq prisons to understand that side. It doesn't excuse British Muslims going back and forth with the intention to murder in this country where plenty have opportunities and benefits available. Get yourselves employable or fvck off if this country isn't for you.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Oct 2017 1.52pm)

COYP

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 17 1.49pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Paragraph 1. Based on what? Paragraph 2. Lots of people thought there was. Paragraph 3. Your insight is incredible here. I mean who thought a civil disturbance due to government policy was political until you kindly pointed it out. Is there a translator in the house. I can't read Lefty babble.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Oct 17 1.49pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Paragraph 1. Based on what?
Paragraph 2. Lots of people thought there was.
Paragraph 3. Your insight is incredible here. I mean who thought a civil disturbance due to government policy was political until you kindly pointed it out.

Is there a translator in the house.
I can't read Lefty babble.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Oct 17 1.56pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I agree with what you're saying regarding lack of opportunities do invite people into terrorism. It has for time. And although it can be argued it does it applies in France and Belgium, it doesn't in Germany or Britain. These here are vermin and have opportunities in a near post code. It isn't inevitable and our fault they're (thousands of them) manipulated to go to Syria, learn cowardly combat and return to blow up or machete innocent people unable to defend themselves, with many secretly okay it's happening when surveyed. I'm also aware aware of enough middle eastern politics and military strategy at the time and the IS rising in Iraq prisons to understand that side. It doesn't excuse British Muslims going back and forth with the intention to murder in this country where plenty have opportunities and benefits available. Get yourselves employable or fvck off if this country isn't for you. Indeed, I have some sympathies for people in Iraq and Syria, I'm kind of ok in a way for those who go there to fight in some absurdly stupid war - I don't really give a st about (I have problems maybe with them fighting for IS which is a death cult pseudo fascist organisation). I don't like Islamist causes, but if you believe so much that your going to fight to create a Islamist Caliphate, well that's your choice. But stay there please - you willingly joined a death cult for whom genocide is a domestic policy. Don't coming running home because your stupid plan turned out to be a fking terrible idea - and now the people you were determined to exterminate are going to kill you. I have none for people who think that they're fighting for a cause when they kill civilians in the streets of the UK. F**kers, its a shame we can resurrect them so they can spend the rest of their lives in a cell, alone and hated. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 12 Oct 17 1.56pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I agree with what you're saying regarding lack of opportunities do invite people into terrorism. It has for time. And although it can be argued it does it applies in France and Belgium, it doesn't in Germany or Britain. These here are vermin and have opportunities in a near post code. It isn't inevitable and our fault they're (thousands of them) manipulated to go to Syria, learn cowardly combat and return to blow up or machete innocent people unable to defend themselves, with many secretly okay it's happening when surveyed.

Indeed, I have some sympathies for people in Iraq and Syria, I'm kind of ok in a way for those who go there to fight in some absurdly stupid war - I don't really give a s**t about (I have problems maybe with them fighting for IS which is a death cult pseudo fascist organisation).

I don't like Islamist causes, but if you believe so much that your going to fight to create a Islamist Caliphate, well that's your choice. But stay there please - you willingly joined a death cult for whom genocide is a domestic policy. Don't coming running home because your stupid plan turned out to be a f**king terrible idea - and now the people you were determined to exterminate are going to kill you.

I have none for people who think that they're fighting for a cause when they kill civilians in the streets of the UK. F**kers, its a shame we can resurrect them so they can spend the rest of their lives in a cell, alone and hated.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 17 2.06pm
As has been said before, it is odd that the liberal Left defends Islam so much when so much about Islam runs counter to their beliefs. Marches against terrorism by football fans will obviously contain a lot of different mentalities, some of whom have a better grasp of reality than others. The issues that people concern themselves with are separatism, crime, religious beliefs that run counter to 'British' and or genuinely 'progressive' principals as well as terrorism. Some of this will inevitably run over into 'racism' and by equal measure be jumped upon by the liberals as 'racism' where only national interest exists. I think part of the problem with the left is that they have become so obsessed with countering the far right wing that they are prepared to turn a blind eye to everything else.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Oct 17 2.06pm

As has been said before, it is odd that the liberal Left defends Islam so much when so much about Islam runs counter to their beliefs.
Marches against terrorism by football fans will obviously contain a lot of different mentalities, some of whom have a better grasp of reality than others. The issues that people concern themselves with are separatism, crime, religious beliefs that run counter to 'British' and or genuinely 'progressive' principals as well as terrorism.
Some of this will inevitably run over into 'racism' and by equal measure be jumped upon by the liberals as 'racism' where only national interest exists.
I think part of the problem with the left is that they have become so obsessed with countering the far right wing that they are prepared to turn a blind eye to everything else.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Oct 17 2.07pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The poll tax riots were a bunch of unemployed layabouts kicking off because they might actually have to pay for something. There was nothing wrong with poll tax. Why should some people pay and other not? It was a purely political protest and the response was also political. There must have been a lot of them, because I was there during the protests, as a young 17 year old (and I had a job), and it seemed at the time that no one wanted this unfair and class biased tax, even members of the conservative party by the time of the riots didn't see pursuit of the poll tax as a good idea. Everything was wrong about the poll tax - it exemplified exactly the kind of 'class war' that the Conservatives had been pursuing - Benefits for the rich, at the cost of the ordinary working people. It was unfair, class biased and absurdly unpopular. It wasn't just the unemployed few who turned out to protest it. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 12 Oct 17 2.07pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The poll tax riots were a bunch of unemployed layabouts kicking off because they might actually have to pay for something.
There was nothing wrong with poll tax. Why should some people pay and other not?

It was a purely political protest and the response was also political.

There must have been a lot of them, because I was there during the protests, as a young 17 year old (and I had a job), and it seemed at the time that no one wanted this unfair and class biased tax, even members of the conservative party by the time of the riots didn't see pursuit of the poll tax as a good idea.

Everything was wrong about the poll tax - it exemplified exactly the kind of 'class war' that the Conservatives had been pursuing - Benefits for the rich, at the cost of the ordinary working people. It was unfair, class biased and absurdly unpopular. It wasn't just the unemployed few who turned out to protest it.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 17 2.21pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 There must have been a lot of them, because I was there during the protests, as a young 17 year old (and I had a job), and it seemed at the time that no one wanted this unfair and class biased tax, even members of the conservative party by the time of the riots didn't see pursuit of the poll tax as a good idea. Everything was wrong about the poll tax - it exemplified exactly the kind of 'class war' that the Conservatives had been pursuing - Benefits for the rich, at the cost of the ordinary working people. It was unfair, class biased and absurdly unpopular. It wasn't just the unemployed few who turned out to protest it. I'm sure. There were lots of left wing activists there like you. Everything was wrong about poll tax politically as was proved. But when people are asked to pay when they haven't had to before, do you think they will like it?
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Oct 17 2.21pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Everything was wrong about the poll tax - it exemplified exactly the kind of 'class war' that the Conservatives had been pursuing - Benefits for the rich, at the cost of the ordinary working people. It was unfair, class biased and absurdly unpopular. It wasn't just the unemployed few who turned out to protest it.

I'm sure. There were lots of left wing activists there like you.
Everything was wrong about poll tax politically as was proved. But when people are asked to pay when they haven't had to before, do you think they will like it?

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Park Road 12 Oct 17 2.34pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Interesting read. It doesn't address the power vacuum that ISIS et al were able to fill that was a direct result of foreign policy though. The so called power vacuum could have been I suppose filled by anyone it just so happens ISIS filled it. The point is we have Islamic terrorism because of a warped ideology not because of policy. If all the wars in Syria Iraq et al never happened there still would be Islamic terrorist and that's a fact
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Park Road

12 Oct 17 2.34pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Interesting read. It doesn't address the power vacuum that ISIS et al were able to fill that was a direct result of foreign policy though.

The so called power vacuum could have been I suppose filled by anyone it just so happens ISIS filled it.
The point is we have Islamic terrorism because of a warped ideology not because of policy.
If all the wars in Syria Iraq et al never happened there still would be Islamic terrorist and that's a fact

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Oct 17 2.41pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I'm sure. There were lots of left wing activists there like you. Everything was wrong about poll tax politically as was proved. But when people are asked to pay when they haven't had to before, do you think they will like it? Someone in a bed sit shouldn't pay the same as someone in a mansion in a civilised progressive society. It was regressive, ideological and political suicide. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 12 Oct 17 2.41pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Someone in a bed sit shouldn't pay the same as someone in a mansion in a civilised progressive society. It was regressive, ideological and political suicide.

COYP

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Park Road 12 Oct 17 2.46pm
On a lighter note The FLA has no policy on the poll tax and will not march either for or against it
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Park Road

12 Oct 17 2.46pm

On a lighter note The FLA has no policy on the poll tax and will not march either for or against it

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 17 2.54pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Someone in a bed sit shouldn't pay the same as someone in a mansion in a civilised progressive society. It was regressive, ideological and political suicide. Poll tax was on individuals, not property. That was the point. A person in a mansion would be unlikely to be living there alone.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Oct 17 2.54pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Someone in a bed sit shouldn't pay the same as someone in a mansion in a civilised progressive society. It was regressive, ideological and political suicide.

Poll tax was on individuals, not property. That was the point.

A person in a mansion would be unlikely to be living there alone.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Oct 17 3.02pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Poll tax was on individuals, not property. That was the point. A person in a mansion would be unlikely to be living there alone. Maybe neither would a family with 3 adults just over 18 living in Thornton Heath. Why should they pay 5 times when the wealthy couple in a big place with nobody over 18 with them pay twice? It was regressive. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 12 Oct 17 3.02pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Poll tax was on individuals, not property. That was the point.

A person in a mansion would be unlikely to be living there alone.

Maybe neither would a family with 3 adults just over 18 living in Thornton Heath. Why should they pay 5 times when the wealthy couple in a big place with nobody over 18 with them pay twice?

It was regressive.

COYP

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