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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 steeleye20  Croydon 24 Oct 19 12.04pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Just like Corbyn voting against it before he had even seen it Well, little choice when you are bounced like that. Abstention is ok, the government still doesn't get your vote. He will have not seen the legal text, but the governments information, that will have shown that workers rights had been omitted.
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 24 Oct 19 12.08pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Ibuprofen back on the shelves at tesco, so brexit won't be happening..... In my case the Doctors decided any further medication was useless, and directed me to a well-known football forum. As did my doctor hence the reason we are both are on this forum together
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 24 Oct 19 12.27pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
I said that remain had lied. Just so happens leave lied way more, and way more egregiously. You say they lied more, so that's a majority of lies. Not 50/50? Or do majorities only count when they suit your argument?
Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry. |
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| mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 24 Oct 19 12.32pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
We will have to agree to disagree on this matter but I respect your opinion and at least we can take alternative viewpoints without any vitriol or ordure. So that's what Bercow keeps hollering! Makes sense now.
Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry. |
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 24 Oct 19 1.03pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
LOL. I would like to think that I fall into at least 3 out of those 4 categories. And sectioning people? I suspect that would be the tactic should you get your ways about voting not being allowed to matter for very much in the future. Perhaps the only true revelation to come from this Brexit fiasco is how fragile our collective notion of universal suffrage is. Of how it has only taken a single vote to go against how the supposed 'brightest and best' wanted it to and all of a sudden the basic principles of our democratic process in terms of one person, one vote suddenly becomes seen as a stumbling block. Makes you realise how events in both Greece and Italy with Governments of technocrats being effectively imposed supposedly independent nations as their rulers actually is in line with much of supposed progressive thinking. We are heading into scary, scary times. And perhaps people such as myself are like Dinosaures with a socially liberal asteroid hurtling towards me and my kind at a speed that is frightening but I still have a choice as to whether I meet my end cowering in a cave or decide to take a stand out in the bright sunshine, defiantly sticking two fingers up and ready to head-butt my oncoming destruction full-on in the face. Maybe I will end up sectioned but one thing I do know is that if I am locked up in a nuthouse, I will be in good company and we will still be more joyful and have more fun than the miserable, joyless, Godless f***s sticking us in there. But who knows? Perhaps tomorrow does belong to us after all. Interesting result recently in Poland and with Salvini flying high in the Italian polls, the Right still has the momentum despite all the s*** being chucked at it. I don't care what side you're on, just that you're prepared to admit mistakes and evolve opinion accordingly. Leave or remain. Left or Right. That was the point being made. It's not focused on any one 'group'. Well maybe anyone with fanatical religious beliefs, or beliefs that equal levels of religious fanaticism (some on here). Voting rights, amongst other things, for irrational, partisan, dogmatic individuals are the price we pay for a best worst democratic system. I don't like it, but the alternative is much worse. Universal suffrage is all well and good, but I despise this 'everyones opinion is valid' bollocks. Everyones opinion matters, but that does not mean they're all valid. And yes, some peoples opinions are more valid than others, for obvious reasons.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 24 Oct 19 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by mezzer
You say they lied more, so that's a majority of lies. Not 50/50? Or do majorities only count when they suit your argument? The fact both sides exaggerated, fabricated and distracted, plus downright lied is a red herring. The issue here is the inability for people on either 'side' to admit that their vote was in part based on spurious nonsense that they lapped up and held onto like some kind of all powerful deity. Why? Because it makes them look and feel stupid. Well tough. You are. And I include myself in this particular point. The difference is I have listened and evolved my position accordingly. For some, it's the same as arguing with a religious nut. i.e. it's impossible as they are so far down the rabbit hole to admit otherwise makes their entire life a wasted sham. Of course if you voted in a vacuum, fair play. You were not in any way influenced by the torrent of media dross that swirled around this ridiculous circus of a campaign. But we all know that's bollocks. Everyone got played to some degree.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| martin2412 Living The Dream 24 Oct 19 1.38pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
But you don't vote in a Tory, Labour or Liberal do you? You vote in a person to represent you, not a voting machine centrally operated from party headquarters. Who would you say was the greatest Parliamentarian? I would suggest that Winston Churchill would top many lists. Churchill changed party not just once, but twice because of his principles. Would you have wanted him to have to stand down? I don't want another referendum at all. I don't want any more referendums ever again. I want Parliament to decide. If this one can't then we ask a new one to try. Why don't you stand and then see if you can do any better? What a load of cobblers. You do know that the people of Hackney or Barnsley would vote in a wardrobe if it had a red rosette pinned to it don't you ?
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 24 Oct 19 1.43pm |
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Originally posted by martin2412
What a load of cobblers. You do know that the people of Hackney or Barnsley would vote in a wardrobe if it had a red rosette pinned to it don't you ? Maybe Diane Abbott is voted in by the electorate in Hackney because she is Diane Abbott!
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| Matov 24 Oct 19 2.02pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Simply cancelling brexit will save years of conflict ahead. LOL. Are you insane? Or do you think people will just forget June 23rd? That millions of Leave voters will just slink off with their tails between their legs and just accept that it was one of those things? Lets assume that A50 is revoked tomorrow? What would you do to ensure that no political party has it as a manifesto pledge that they will take us out of the EU if elected? What would you do? Have future elections banned? Sign up the UK in perpetuity to the European Union? A question was asked. An answer given along with pledges that it would be honored. We have to leave. Once we do, then campaigning for us to rejoin is a perfectly legitimate political aspiration. Absolutely no issues around that. But what on earth does cancelling it achieve? The Genie is out of the bottle. It cannot be wished away or pushed back in.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Lyons550 Shirley 24 Oct 19 2.12pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Simply cancelling brexit will save years of conflict ahead. Every day brexit referendums, brexit elections, extensions deals/not deals, more PM casualties etc.etc. It is almost beyond belief that the UK could resume its place at the top table complete with veto, but it is quite true and up to the UK, not the EU. That is the right thing to do surely, the problem is only politics. Give people the straight choice now, why would they want to go on, having seen what a never-ending disaster it is. I think you need to take a cold hard look at yourself...esp if you think that. Its only the loud minority that's spoken and taken to the streets so far...which is my concern, as things could get very ugly very quickly when the (at present) largely silent majority take to the street to vent their displeasure.
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 24 Oct 19 2.19pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
LOL. Are you insane? Or do you think people will just forget June 23rd? That millions of Leave voters will just slink off with their tails between their legs and just accept that it was one of those things? Lets assume that A50 is revoked tomorrow? What would you do to ensure that no political party has it as a manifesto pledge that they will take us out of the EU if elected? What would you do? Have future elections banned? Sign up the UK in perpetuity to the European Union? A question was asked. An answer given along with pledges that it would be honored. We have to leave. Once we do, then campaigning for us to rejoin is a perfectly legitimate political aspiration. Absolutely no issues around that. But what on earth does cancelling it achieve? The Genie is out of the bottle. It cannot be wished away or pushed back in. Are you new here? Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (24 Oct 2019 2.20pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Oct 19 2.58pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
We will have to agree to disagree on this matter but I respect your opinion and at least we can take alternative viewpoints without any vitriol or ordure. That's fine. I too respect the alternative view although disagreeing with it as I believe the long term consequences would lead to unwelcome outcomes. I believe we need to strengthen the rights and status of individual MPs and weaken the party grip, and not the reverse. As a matter of interest, given your obvious first hand experience, how many of the "door knocking leaflet distributors" do you think would be loyal to the member in your constituency, if they switched parties, and how many loyal to who-ever was selected to replace them? A charismatic MP with strong principles commands respect, especially if they serve a long time. People down here still speak fondly of David Penhaligon and, I think, would have voted for him if he had stood for the Monster Raving Loony Party.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Oct 19 3.05pm |
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Originally posted by martin2412
What a load of cobblers. You do know that the people of Hackney or Barnsley would vote in a wardrobe if it had a red rosette pinned to it don't you ? As this thread has developed a little since I wrote that maybe you ought to read it all. Essentially why they vote as they do is their choice but the result is always an individual MP as their, and everyone else in the constituency's, representative. Not a party.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 24 Oct 19 3.16pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's fine. I too respect the alternative view although disagreeing with it as I believe the long term consequences would lead to unwelcome outcomes. I believe we need to strengthen the rights and status of individual MPs and weaken the party grip, and not the reverse. As a matter of interest, given your obvious first hand experience, how many of the "door knocking leaflet distributors" do you think would be loyal to the member in your constituency, if they switched parties, and how many loyal to who-ever was selected to replace them? A charismatic MP with strong principles commands respect, especially if they serve a long time. People down here still speak fondly of David Penhaligon and, I think, would have voted for him if he had stood for the Monster Raving Loony Party. From experience if a Conservative MP switched to for example the Lib Dems and fought an election as a Lib Dem, then the "Door knocking distributors" who had previously canvassed for the Conservative would canvass for the new Conservative candidate rather than the former Conservative who had switched parties.In the main the canvassers/leaflet distributors are members of the local party so they would support their local candidate. I recall in bygone days campaigning for Bernard Wetherill who was standing as the Speaker and so was a-political and in fact we wore green rosettes rather than blue ones.On numerous occasions I was asked which party he was standing for and I had to remind them that as speaker he was not standing on behalf of any party to which I sometimes received the retort akin to "Yes, but he's a Tory" etc etc. All very party driven at doorstep level!
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| steeleye20 Croydon 24 Oct 19 3.19pm |
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You see, the thing is 'we just need to get brexit done'. Wild applause, yeah yeah yeah... The thing is, cancelling does that. Nothing else does
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| Midlands Eagle 24 Oct 19 3.24pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You see, the thing is 'we just need to get brexit done'. Wild applause, yeah yeah yeah... The thing is, cancelling does that. Nothing else does Brexit stands for "Britain's exit" so how does cancelling it get it done
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| steeleye20 Croydon 24 Oct 19 3.26pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Brexit stands for "Britain's exit" so how does cancelling it get it done It terminates it, an ex-parrot
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| Eaglecoops CR3 24 Oct 19 3.54pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
The fact both sides exaggerated, fabricated and distracted, plus downright lied is a red herring. The issue here is the inability for people on either 'side' to admit that their vote was in part based on spurious nonsense that they lapped up and held onto like some kind of all powerful deity. Why? Because it makes them look and feel stupid. Well tough. You are. And I include myself in this particular point. The difference is I have listened and evolved my position accordingly. For some, it's the same as arguing with a religious nut. i.e. it's impossible as they are so far down the rabbit hole to admit otherwise makes their entire life a wasted sham. Of course if you voted in a vacuum, fair play. You were not in any way influenced by the torrent of media dross that swirled around this ridiculous circus of a campaign. But we all know that's bollocks. Everyone got played to some degree. Indeed, I too have evolved my position. At first I wanted to leave and now I really want to leave. Europe is finished, its only The UK Germany and France that hold it together.
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