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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 Mar 22 9.55am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, because those that love change move to Cornwall don't they.

'Change for thee, not for me'.

My wife is from Truro, her family are still there.

Unfortunately when I first visited (2010's) I made the mistake of wearing headphones (long journey), and was chased with pitchforks and torches for trying to communicate with extra-terrestrial beings.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 Mar 22 9.58am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

My wife is from Truro, her family are still there.

Unfortunately when I first visited (2010's) I made the mistake of wearing headphones (long journey), and was chased with pitchforks and torches for trying to communicate with extra-terrestrial beings.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 10.34am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think you are trying to get me to say that this is happening.

I wouldn't be surprised if you state to claim that I think the Russians aren't even bombing the Ukraine, when they have even stated they are.

So I'm not stating as factual what you apparently want to have me say. You on the other hand seem to be suggesting that the Ukraine can't blow up their own buildings.

What I do know is that the Ukrainians want to draw the west into fighting the Russians in a wider war. Now, just how could that be achieved?

Apparently the Ukrainians don't have artillery....apparently they have don't have drones with missiles.....funny that, because there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Mar 2022 9.59am)

I don't believe that is true at government level. Among a beleaguered population, maybe, but not in those who lead them.

I think it was made abundantly clear a long time before the conflict ever became hot that Nato would not, whatever the provocation, get directly involved in any way.

So why is Zelensky making repeated requests for a no-fly-zone he knows cannot be delivered? The answer may be in a theory I heard a day or two ago. It's part of the settlement strategy that enables him to establish a belief in the minds of his people that Ukraine cannot rely on Nato, so needs another way of ensuring their security. It's Zelensky preparing the ground. The commentator was praising him as an astute thinker. Obtaining the ground based air defence systems fits with this.

For sure the Ukrainians have artillery and drones and any army is capable of almost anything, but why would they be doing anything widespread now? With the obvious onslaught that is going on there is just no need.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 17 Mar 22 10.49am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I don't believe that is true at government level. Among a beleaguered population, maybe, but not in those who lead them.

I think it was made abundantly clear a long time before the conflict ever became hot that Nato would not, whatever the provocation, get directly involved in any way.

So why is Zelensky making repeated requests for a no-fly-zone he knows cannot be delivered? The answer may be in a theory I heard a day or two ago. It's part of the settlement strategy that enables him to establish a belief in the minds of his people that Ukraine cannot rely on Nato, so needs another way of ensuring their security. It's Zelensky preparing the ground. The commentator was praising him as an astute thinker. Obtaining the ground based air defence systems fits with this.

For sure the Ukrainians have artillery and drones and any army is capable of almost anything, but why would they be doing anything widespread now? With the obvious onslaught that is going on there is just no need.

While I'm a skeptic on certainty regarding matters that have little proof I also don't want to claim that this means that any speculation I might put forward similarly holds any claim to certainty.

I've heard some horrible things in my time and what I've heard and sometimes seen about this war....not on the mainstream....isn't in anyway an improvement.

While I support the right of the Ukrainians to fight for their country I don't believe that either side are above the savage and immoral acts of war.

There is no fairness nor any quarter given on the battlefield and all and any tactics are used.

The mainstream are a filter and always have been....in some ways necessary and in some ways a distortion.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 11.32am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Even when you are factually proven to be inaccurate you can't admit you're wrong.

As for your perception of modern attitudes you make statements that completely ignore those who disagree with you using words like 'fringe' and extreme, when those opinions are still commonly held. The Guardian article....if you actually read it shoves that in your face.

You just aren't interested in the truth.....which I suppose shouldn't be surprising for someone who spent decades in marketing and advertising.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Mar 2022 9.44am)

When I am, I do. As I haven't been, why on earth would I?

That one speech made at a particular moment in time by an esteemed orator received widespread acclaim doesn't prove anything about the people's general beliefs at the time.

It merely proves he caught the moment. Nothing else.

There was widespread ignorance back then about diversity and inclusion. Indeed, such concepts were virtually unknown. Powell's speech was made just a year after homosexuality stopped being illegal.

No-one denies that widespread ignorance remains, but it is not quite so wide and much shallower. We have moved. Some think it's backwards, others, like me, forwards.

Whilst you can forgive ignorance in people who weren't given an opportunity to understand more, you cannot in people who have, but cling to outdated and divisive ideas.

You simply cannot look at people's attitudes without also looking at the context in which they arise. My parents supported Powell. They were good people. If they were around now, I am 100% sure they would no longer support such ideas.

The key lesson every marketeer needs to learn is you need to deliver what your customer needs, and not what they want. You need to know them better than they know themselves. Politics is little different.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 11.43am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, because those that love change move to Cornwall don't they.

'Change for thee, not for me'.

Just because Cornwall is beautiful and peaceful doesn't mean it's incapable of change!

150 years ago its economy depended on mining, fishing and farming. Today it's tourism, retirement and, increasingly, those wanting to work from home in a nice environment. We have superfast broadband here and a number of major back office establishments. That's the future. Why the constant sniping because I have seen it before some others always puzzles me. The gates aren't locked on the Tamar bridge. If I managed to escape from the Fens, then anyone can.

 


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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 17 Mar 22 7.43pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

When I am, I do. As I haven't been, why on earth would I?

That one speech made at a particular moment in time by an esteemed orator received widespread acclaim doesn't prove anything about the people's general beliefs at the time.

It merely proves he caught the moment. Nothing else.

There was widespread ignorance back then about diversity and inclusion. Indeed, such concepts were virtually unknown. Powell's speech was made just a year after homosexuality stopped being illegal.

No-one denies that widespread ignorance remains, but it is not quite so wide and much shallower. We have moved. Some think it's backwards, others, like me, forwards.

Whilst you can forgive ignorance in people who weren't given an opportunity to understand more, you cannot in people who have, but cling to outdated and divisive ideas.

You simply cannot look at people's attitudes without also looking at the context in which they arise. My parents supported Powell. They were good people. If they were around now, I am 100% sure they would no longer support such ideas.

The key lesson every marketeer needs to learn is you need to deliver what your customer needs, and not what they want. You need to know them better than they know themselves. Politics is little different.

That is tosh. It’s needs AND wants. Actually look around shopping and you’ll realise this. Many of the improvements and changes for convenience aren’t needed whatsoever. And if it was just needs we’d all be driving Lada’s and wearing blue overalls. People are manipulated by marketing and advertising. Best to turn off ads off on your phone, unless you aim to spend unnecessarily all the time.

 


COYP

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 17 Mar 22 7.47pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Just because Cornwall is beautiful and peaceful doesn't mean it's incapable of change!

150 years ago its economy depended on mining, fishing and farming. Today it's tourism, retirement and, increasingly, those wanting to work from home in a nice environment. We have superfast broadband here and a number of major back office establishments. That's the future. Why the constant sniping because I have seen it before some others always puzzles me. The gates aren't locked on the Tamar bridge. If I managed to escape from the Fens, then anyone can.

Comfortable delusion. Not for the first time & not the first time you’ve said this. Perhaps the whole of inner London’s council estates can move to Cornwall? Thought not. That’s the point, same as nice parts of all the Home Counties.

 


COYP

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 8.27pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

That is tosh. It’s needs AND wants. Actually look around shopping and you’ll realise this. Many of the improvements and changes for convenience aren’t needed whatsoever. And if it was just needs we’d all be driving Lada’s and wearing blue overalls. People are manipulated by marketing and advertising. Best to turn off ads off on your phone, unless you aim to spend unnecessarily all the time.

A need doesn't have to be functional. It can just as easily be emotional. The key is to understand what is really needed by the customer and not what they think they need, or want.

Which doesn't have a lot to do with the war in Ukraine, does it?

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 8.37pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Comfortable delusion. Not for the first time & not the first time you’ve said this. Perhaps the whole of inner London’s council estates can move to Cornwall? Thought not. That’s the point, same as nice parts of all the Home Counties.

Not everybody would want to, would they? The point is that those that do, can. I retired here, having lived in many places in the UK during my working life. I made a choice that's open to everyone. It just demands some effort. If you want it enough, you can get it. I did.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 22 10.38am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Yesterday, it was suggested here that Zelensky is trying to force Nato into the war, an idea I refuted.

The west is though already at war with Russia. It has declared an economic war, having decided, finally, that it can tolerate Putin's behaviour no longer.

With the hot war now 3 weeks old, I sense interest already waning. It's not always the headline in the news each day. Peace talks seem to be grinding slowly towards common positions. The refugee crisis remains huge and the bombing of civilians continues, but have become repetitive stories. There hasn't even been a comment here on the war itself for a day!

With us already facing huge economic problems caused by the pandemic (and dare I say it, Brexit), with very high and rising energy costs, will the public have the stomach and fortitude needed to sustain the economic war, once the hot war is over? Or will pragmaticism take over again, and allow Putin off the hook?

There may be the political will in government to keep the pressure on, but democratic government's depend on votes and economic pain is not a vote winner.

My hope is that we don't just go back to where we were, but work with our friends to ensure both energy and food security within an achievable time frame. Maybe we need a new umbrella organisation to manage this in the same way Nato manages security? It would be a difficult sell to the public, but I think a very necessary one.

At the same time, we should try not to isolate Russia, but make it clear to them that it is Putin's style of authoritarianism and confrontation that holds them back. If they democratised, allowed a free press and demonstrated a commitment to agreed standards then the door could be opened.

Too soon I guess, whilst people are still being bombed, but then again I bet this is already being thought about.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 22 12.59pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Well done Arnie.

That's the way to reach people:-

[Link]

 


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