I accept that you are giving an honest straight opinion and I respect that.

Yep, I'm partizan but I don't think I'm blinkered....but then again who does.

If you have the EU army, what's the point of the national army SW? Certainly national armies on the French or British scale. A national army only makes sense if you can use it independently.

I'm not saying that the EU would ban national armies....but come on...they aren't going to look favorably at them beyond a set size are they. They are probably going to set limits on what individual states can have.......over time I'm just not seeing the point of individual nations bothering when they can reduce spending by collectivizing.....They would just pay into the collective pot.....They could then have larger security and Police systems.

I think your point that the drift towards centralisation is inevitable is correct. It' s the evolution of all organisations to look to increase their power if they get the possibility.....The EU is essentially a corporation now, one that is invested in cementing itself for the long term.....An army is an essential part of that.

Just my partizan two pennies.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Fair. I just don't see it happening any time soon (full EU army). Impossible to say it won't happen, but I'm pretty confident it's not occurring in my lifetime. Co-sharing resources where needed in a kind of UN arrangement? Perhaps. But that's not the same as a one army system and the end of national militaries. You could argue it's a step, but again, for reasons outlined many many times, I just don't see it happening in the near to medium, even long term.

That said I do think globalisation of all things is inevitable (although way, way in the future) so at that point it becomes a world army anyway, and perhaps by that point instead of national armies, you'll have anti-globalisation rebels left as the only remnants of nations, borders and culture. And don't even begin to think about the chaos if we start settlements on Mars/the Moon via good old Elon. If you've seen Ad Astra that seems a far more realistic take to me. Same wars different planet

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Edited by SW19 CPFC (30 Jan 2020 6.08pm)

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Presumably you include Wisbeach Eagle in this?
Interesting is this because I live in Horsham? Well I was born and bred in Thornton Heath, went to school in Thornton Heath and Croydon. Didn't move out until 1992. During this time Addiscombe was considered upper class to me and my friends
Why was the Sun a valid starting point?
You called me a chump so you have presumably determined this without any knowledge of me

100% agree. We would never agree to giving up our armed forces and merging them into any kind of EU army. That some in the EU might like that does not mean it would happen. More co-operation. Sharing supply chains. Join exercises. All for sure. But under one EU command? No chance.

Only if we faced some kind of unforeseen total catastrophe which threatened to wipe us out would it become even remotely possible.

In fact I think Brexit makes it rather more likely than if we were remaining in the EU. Why might that be?

Well I don't think that as a full member with our treaty obligations firmly in place we could be forced to do anything like that. However if, as I anticipate, the UK now breaks apart and England, either with Wales or eventually separately, struggles to assert itself in today's fast changing world and fails to satisfy people's expectations to the point where there is a clamour for re-entry to the EU, then the EU will doubtless dictate much more demanding, terms than we now have. Extensions of majority voting would be one for sure and who knows what else. A gradual move towards an integrated army could be part of the package.

As Simon Jordan said "Be careful what you wish for". Chasing dreams can make you bankrupt. Or at least much poorer

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

exactly, I was so grateful for Trident when Saddam Hussein was pointing his WMD at us - money well spent.

And so the day had finally dawned and as the clock ticks down to 11pm tonight folk across this country anxiously wonder about the big question, Remain or Leave.

Will their star player Remain or is he a Leaver.

Oops sorry I meant to post this in transfer news.

One more point

I remember reading many years ago that the best way to understand the EU was by looking at what they call the butter/olive oil divide in terms of what people put on their bread. With France perhaps representing the biggest example of a nation representing both sides of that choice.

With the UK out of the picture the balance of power changes to the olive oil nations. That is the issue. Germany could always rely on us to promote the pro-business stance but now....

Interesting times. Personally I think France is the issue. Always believed that it is hiding a huge banking crisis in the making along with the possibility of Le Pen winning the Presidency. Then all bets are off.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

And that sums up the conflict I was referring to. Germany pays for the EU and generally gets it's way but if you are correct and the so called lesser nations now start to get their way how long will the German taxpayer put up with that?

The next 7 nations to join the EU are all poor so will be looking for handouts and if the EU continues with majority voting the richer nations will find themselves paying more and more.

The EU has been great for Germany and France but for how long longer?

One more point

Again, even economically the idea that England would 'struggle to assert' itself isn't only talking down the country it's overtly nowhere near realistic.

If the UK split up and England no longer supported Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland it would only benefit overall. The knowledge of this fact was why Scotland voted to stay in originally....they know which side their bread is buttered and even now despite your fear mongering support for a referendum isn't there.

As for the economic data, we have linked to all the indicators from bodies like manufacturing and the IMF have been positive.....but as usual you continue your myopic narrative.

You can't accept the result and worse, you are tied to a 'talking down' narrative that appears to be entirely related to your emotional response rather than a rational one.

There will be no 'struggling', the only 'struggling' is yours in being able to move on from Brexit and understand that independence from the EU is how this nation is moving forward.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

German exports have benefited for years from a weak euro.