This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
Visit the current forum | Forum Rules
  SW19 CPFC  Addiscombe West 22 Feb 20 10.09pm |
|
|---|---|
|
British passports for wot British workers Oh wait Extrapolate
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Feb 20 10.15pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Spiderman
But your buddies in the EU think it is marvellous as did many MPs here including arch remainer Ken Clarke
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 22 Feb 20 10.45pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Yes I would criticise his views but not him because they are held by almost everyone. I realise I am probably a pioneer. The fact that these are commonly used descriptions doesn't mean they are wise. The fact that anyone has a black, or white, skin says absolutely nothing at all about them as people. It is a meaningless description which groups people into irrelevant tribes. There are just more accurate ways to group people and we need to start to use them as the current way is making things worse and not better. Understand where you’re coming from here but this is a little naive / idealistic Black culture is a ‘thing’ and rightfully so - whether you like it or not I agree the end goal of a human is a human is noble but unrealistic. At least in the short term anyways Equality is a great aim but eliminating valid culture as part of it is perhaps a little extreme And this is coming from someone who feels culture/country etc will be all but eliminated by globalisation (albeit over several hundred years)
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Feb 20 12.10am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Understand where you’re coming from here but this is a little naive / idealistic Black culture is a ‘thing’ and rightfully so - whether you like it or not I agree the end goal of a human is a human is noble but unrealistic. At least in the short term anyways Equality is a great aim but eliminating valid culture as part of it is perhaps a little extreme And this is coming from someone who feels culture/country etc will be all but eliminated by globalisation (albeit over several hundred years) I know where you are coming from too and that it's idealistic. My point though is unless the point is identified and discussed it won't ever change. Every journey starts with a single step etc etc. For me "black culture" needs to be called out just as much as "white supremacy" does. Neither contribute anything positive to harmonising society. I do though agree that globalisation will largely eliminate the current concepts of race and nationality although I expect that to happen much quicker than in several hundred years. Indeed you can see it happening today. There will always be the Luddite tendencies that are in evidence here seeking to hold back inevitable change but irresistible forces are not meeting immovable objects. They are just facing temporary barriers.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Stirlingsays 23 Feb 20 1.52am |
|
|---|---|
|
Welcome back. [Tweet Link]
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Badger11 Beckenham 23 Feb 20 7.35am |
|
|---|---|
|
I have to wait 2 years before I get mine looking forward to it.
One more point |
|
| robdave2k 23 Feb 20 10.30am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Yes I would criticise his views but not him because they are held by almost everyone. I realise I am probably a pioneer. The fact that these are commonly used descriptions doesn't mean they are wise. The fact that anyone has a black, or white, skin says absolutely nothing at all about them as people. It is a meaningless description which groups people into irrelevant tribes. There are just more accurate ways to group people and we need to start to use them as the current way is making things worse and not better. You certainly haven’t got any humility or grace though have you. If you were chocolate you would eat yourself, then lecture everyone else on it. And pioneer you may see yourself as. So were some of the worst people in history at the time. You “see it as it is”. At that point you are no different to the fascists, they “see it as it is too”. I can’t believe you actually think you change anyone’s mind by insulting them about their intelligence.
|
|
| Spiderman Horsham 23 Feb 20 10.59am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Yes I would criticise his views but not him because they are held by almost everyone. I realise I am probably a pioneer. The fact that these are commonly used descriptions doesn't mean they are wise. The fact that anyone has a black, or white, skin says absolutely nothing at all about them as people. It is a meaningless description which groups people into irrelevant tribes. There are just more accurate ways to group people and we need to start to use them as the current way is making things worse and not better. FFS
|
|
| davenotamonkey 23 Feb 20 11.14am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Proposing and implementing laws, within the objectives of existing treaties, is not enacting new law. It is carrying out the delegated instructions of EU member states. Treaties are democratically approved by EU members. Delegated responsibility does not alter where the final authority rests. The idea that the commission is some kind of undemocratic monster which has controlled everything is 100% propaganda and scaremongering. It is the servant of the EU members and not their master. Indeed. Factorame taught us that. And if the Commission were merely doing the bidding of the EU "members", why is it subject to lobbying? Why can we not see the minutes from the meeting of these lobbyists? Why are they declared "commercial secrets"? No matter what weasel words you use to spin it, these people have SOLE authority for initiating legislation, and do NOT need to be instructed by the Council to do so - it can be of their own "initiative". "Oh, but the UK goverment also gets lobbied LOL! I win the argumentz!" Except, of course, we have the ability to remove our government and vote (yes! vote!) in a new one. You are correct. The Commission isn't an undemocratic monster. It is anti-democratic: go take a look at how a failed cronyist nepotistic derided German defence minister rose to power, without even turning up to the sham EU commissioner "debates". What the point in putting forwards to candidates to vote on when it's all tied up in what Juncker attachingly refers to as "dark secret rooms". Spare me the pathetic pretense of EU accountability, Wisbech.
|
|
Attachment: 
| chris123 hove actually 23 Feb 20 11.58am |
|
|---|---|
|
This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by mr. apollo
Still wondering if it fundamentally changes anything, except Scotland’s call for a new referendum on independence. In ten years we’ll all be voting to all to be let back in. In ten years more will have left.
|
|
Slimey Toad  Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 23 Feb 20 12.31pm |
|
|---|---|
|
This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Badger11
Nothing should change until the end of the year. After which the EU has said that UK citizens will be required to obtain a visa which will last for 2 years and is valid for any EU country. It will be electronic like an ESTA and probably cost about £10 it is a short term visa. However this may get negotiated away ? I am not sure what the UK equivalent will be. Do you mean that with this visa you will be able to enter an EU country and stay for up to 2 years without having to leave?
|
|
| Badger11 Beckenham 23 Feb 20 1.33pm |
|
|---|---|
|
This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Slimey Toad
Do you mean that with this visa you will be able to enter an EU country and stay for up to 2 years without having to leave? No I think I said short term visa. So you will be able to visit the EU multiple times over 2 years before renewing. I'm not sure they have decided the length of each stay but likely to be 30-90 days. This could all change depending on negotiations.
One more point |
|
| davenotamonkey 23 Feb 20 1.50pm |
|
|---|---|
|
This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by Badger11
No I think I said short term visa. So you will be able to visit the EU multiple times over 2 years before renewing. I'm not sure they have decided the length of each stay but likely to be 30-90 days. This could all change depending on negotiations. I will be amazed if we reciprocate and charge for EU-members to enter the UK. But as you've rightly clarified: this is for entry to the EU for holidays, short trips, not for settling and working. They are welcome to charge us - the mask has truly slipped with the supranational government over there. They do love imposing red tape and needless bureaucracy to interfere and justify their existence. Again, putting up barriers and making it harder to spend money in their fortress. We must do our best to remain open and welcoming to those that wish to visit.
|
|
| Badger11 Beckenham 23 Feb 20 2.16pm |
|
|---|---|
|
This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle Originally posted by davenotamonkey
I will be amazed if we reciprocate and charge for EU-members to enter the UK. But as you've rightly clarified: this is for entry to the EU for holidays, short trips, not for settling and working. They are welcome to charge us - the mask has truly slipped with the supranational government over there. They do love imposing red tape and needless bureaucracy to interfere and justify their existence. Again, putting up barriers and making it harder to spend money in their fortress. We must do our best to remain open and welcoming to those that wish to visit. Agreed unless something major changes EU citizens should be allowed to come here visa free for holidays. With the new immigration policy they cannot work or claim so unless the system is abused I see no need for for a visa. If they want to do this to us they should remember that millions of Brits holiday in the EU those are the same people the EU wants to win over. It seems a little petty but I don't care it's their problem. I am off to Singapore and Indonesia neither require a visa for a 30 day holiday but apparently the beloved EU does.
One more point |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Feb 20 8.58pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by davenotamonkey
Indeed. Factorame taught us that. And if the Commission were merely doing the bidding of the EU "members", why is it subject to lobbying? Why can we not see the minutes from the meeting of these lobbyists? Why are they declared "commercial secrets"? No matter what weasel words you use to spin it, these people have SOLE authority for initiating legislation, and do NOT need to be instructed by the Council to do so - it can be of their own "initiative". "Oh, but the UK goverment also gets lobbied LOL! I win the argumentz!" Except, of course, we have the ability to remove our government and vote (yes! vote!) in a new one. You are correct. The Commission isn't an undemocratic monster. It is anti-democratic: go take a look at how a failed cronyist nepotistic derided German defence minister rose to power, without even turning up to the sham EU commissioner "debates". What the point in putting forwards to candidates to vote on when it's all tied up in what Juncker attachingly refers to as "dark secret rooms". Spare me the pathetic pretense of EU accountability, Wisbech. The point is that you are firing at the wrong target. If what you say is true, and I make no comment on that as I haven't checked it, then the buck stops with the Council and the Parliament. It is them who delegate the authority. The Commission cannot act on it's own initiative unless it has been given the responsibility to do so. The EU is a unique organisation which must have been incredibly difficult to find a way to manage successfully. It obviously isn't perfect but very few things are. The real question is not to identify it's weaknesses and then try to improve them because that's obviously something that always needs to be done. The question is whether we are all better within the EU, warts and all, or outside it. My answer is just different to yours.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Feb 20 9.23pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by robdave2k
You certainly haven’t got any humility or grace though have you. If you were chocolate you would eat yourself, then lecture everyone else on it. And pioneer you may see yourself as. So were some of the worst people in history at the time. You “see it as it is”. At that point you are no different to the fascists, they “see it as it is too”. I can’t believe you actually think you change anyone’s mind by insulting them about their intelligence. As I never have any expectation of changing anyone's mind on here I am not going to be disappointed am I? Especially as I don't actually insult anyone's intelligence. I might make the occasional sarcastic remark! As you don't know me in any way apart from my comments here then deciding I don't have any "humility or grace" is a little bit rich? You will obviously not believe it but in the real world I think I have plenty of both. My approach on how people should classify themselves is obviously not mainstream and being unusual causes some people to question or even to ridicule it. As I have nothing but a wish to see peace and harmony among us all I think making comparisons with the "worst people in history", and certainly the fascists, is inappropriate. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (24 Feb 2020 3.01pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Feb 20 9.56am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Badger11
Wow this has to be some sort of a record. Politicians memoirs are normally heavily publicised in a newspaper come out and hang around at the bottom of the best sellers list for a few months before heading for the bargain bucket. However John Bercow never a man to stick with tradition has a new angle skip the bestsellers and go straight for the bucket. ""It came out only three weeks ago, but ex-Speaker John Bercow's memoir, Unspeakable, has slumped to No. 3,565 on Kindle's best-seller list despite aggressive publicity by the diminuitive one."" It would appear that John's Remainer friends have deserted him such a pity, still there's that cushy EU job to look forward to? Or have they forgotten about him as well. So aggressive I was unaware of it. Thanks for alerting me. I will look out for it in the library next time I am there.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
Teddy Eagle  24 Feb 20 12.21pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
So aggressive I was unaware of it. Thanks for alerting me. I will look out for it in the library next time I am there. Rather proves the point. If it weren’t for libraries buying it he’d have made no sales at all.
|
|
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2025 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.