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Bias against Trump
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.TUX.  16 Aug 17 1.03pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You were doing what other Trump apologists do. Complain about "a lack of evenness" in the way the MSM report him. There is no such thing at all. He deserves all he gets and more because he makes claims that are entirely false whilst complaining that those who explain why they are false and publishing "fake news". Trump would not not know the truth if it bit him on the backside. His claims about a rising market are false because the rise is a bubble and not down to an economic recovery he fantasises he has created. The MSM are just telling it as it is. Agreed.
Buy Litecoin. |
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 Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 2.21pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You were doing what other Trump apologists do. Complain about "a lack of evenness" in the way the MSM report him. There is no such thing at all. He deserves all he gets and more because he makes claims that are entirely false whilst complaining that those who explain why they are false are publishing "fake news". Trump would not not know the truth if it bit him on the backside. His claims about a rising market are false because the rise is a bubble and not down to an economic recovery he fantasises he has created. The MSM are just telling it as it is. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (16 Aug 2017 1.04pm) 'Trump apologist' I criticise Trump where I disagree and praise him where I do agree...Not that it matters a hill of beans....The reality is I disagree far more than agree. But I'm not a demoniser like you seem to be here. As for a bubble...maybe, but the reality is that the markets have risen because he is there. Your denial was just irrational....but I don't really expect anything different from you.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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About what am I apologizing? So sorry that I'm not filled with the immature, emotional hate that you appear filled with. | Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 2.28pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Whilst no-one should ever initiate violence against anyone, being extreme about protesting white supremacy and Nazism has more moral authority than being a white supremacist or a Nazi. Trump has twice failed to make that distinction, and I am not sure that either he, or you, understand why it matters that he needs to. If there were no Nazis then there would be no Antifa. Violence from the latter is a direct consequence of the existence of the former. The emergence from the shadows of the former is a direct consequence of Trump's election as POTUS. I agree with your first sentence. I don't agree with the criticism of Trump....over and above saying that he tries to straddle the line and go more soft focus on where his votes come from....Obama did it with black lives matter....But Trump has actually attacked the KKK and quite rightly....also anyone involved in violence...also rightly. As for your point about Antifa......Mmmm...they violently closed down Milo at Berkeley and while you might not like Milo he's not a fascist or white supremacist....But I'm well aware that antifa are very willing to dramatically lower and alter the standards for what fits what. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Aug 2017 2.28pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Ray in Houston  Houston 16 Aug 17 2.31pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
No problems with people protesting white supremacy. However antifa also go to protests with weapons and attack people. The events at Berkeley where violence was used against a Milo event and people put in hospital set this protest violence trend going and it's just escalating now. Both sets of people are extremists and Trump was right about this. No. A thousand times no! Violent protests should not be tolerated. But to claim that Antifa are "extremists", when they are simply opposing those who believe everyone is inferior to the white race and that Jews should be exterminated is flat out, dead wrong. How the f*** is that an extreme position? You just called the Allies in WW2 extremists. Edited by Ray in Houston (16 Aug 2017 2.32pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 2.58pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
No. A thousand times no! Violent protests should not be tolerated. But to claim that Antifa are "extremists", when they are simply opposing those who believe everyone is inferior to the white race and that Jews should be exterminated is flat out, dead wrong. How the f*** is that an extreme position? You just called the Allies in WW2 extremists. Edited by Ray in Houston (16 Aug 2017 2.32pm) No I didn't, that's a silly comment. The allies were people fighting a state declared war. Antifa are not carrying out any sanctioned actions. Indeed they have just been declared a terrorist group in one state and others will likely follow suit soon. I have no problems with those that oppose some opinion protesting about it.....that's a healthy exercise of democracy But antifa go far beyond that...have you been to their website? Antifa violently closed down Milo at Berkeley. If far right groups are getting out of hand then that's a matter for the law. All Antifa do is worsen the situation. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Aug 2017 2.59pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 16 Aug 17 3.00pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
No. A thousand times no! Violent protests should not be tolerated. But to claim that Antifa are "extremists", when they are simply opposing those who believe everyone is inferior to the white race and that Jews should be exterminated is flat out, dead wrong. How the f*** is that an extreme position? You just called the Allies in WW2 extremists. Edited by Ray in Houston (16 Aug 2017 2.32pm) Spot on.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 3.02pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
No I didn't, that's a silly comment. The allies were people fighting a state declared war. Antifa are not carrying out any sanctioned actions. Indeed they have just been declared a terrorist group in one state and others will likely follow suit soon. I have no problems with those that oppose some opinion protesting about it.....that's a healthy exercise of democracy But antifa go far beyond that...have you been to their website? Antifa violently closed down Milo at Berkeley. If far right groups are getting out of hand then that's a matter for the law. All Antifa do is worsen the situation.
So, in your book, Antifa are worse than the Nazis? Worse than the guy who rammed a crowd of human beings with his car? Worse than the people chanting Nazi slogans? Chanting "Heil Trump!"? Edited by Ray in Houston (16 Aug 2017 3.04pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 3.08pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
? Where did I say that? The people who use violence are the worse by far....People grouping together to represent horrible views....well they are horrible. Essentially those who take the lives of others because....opinions....These people are the problem...and the bias between the two is troubling. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Aug 2017 3.12pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 3.11pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Edited by Ray in Houston (16 Aug 2017 3.04pm) You compare the allies to 'white supremacists'? Yes, the allies had a permit...a permit the vast majority of them didn't want. White Supremacists are a tiny group that very obviously have no official sanction.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 3.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
? Where did I say that? The people who use violence are the worse by far....People grouping together to represent horrible views....well they are horrible. Essentially those who take the lives of others because....opinions....These people are the problem...and the interdiction between the two is troubling.
One side in this showed up heavily armed, chanting hate speech; the other side showed up to oppose that insult to civilisation. One of these things is not like the other.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 3.16pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You compare the allies to 'white supremacists'? Yes, the allies had a permit...a permit the vast majority of them didn't want. White Supremacists are a tiny group that very obviously have no official sanction.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 3.27pm |
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I'll post this here as a far more succinct statement than my incorrigible long-windedness will allow.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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Attachment: | jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Aug 17 3.27pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
One side in this showed up heavily armed, chanting hate speech; the other side showed up to oppose that insult to civilisation. One of these things is not like the other. Yeah whilst I'm not a big fan of Antifa, they're not really in the same ball park as White Supremacist and Neo-Nazi groups in the US who do have a long history of criminality, gang associations and acts of terrorism in the US - You have to go back a long way to the Weather Underground and BLA of the late 60s and 70s to see an equivalent - and even then the Weather Underground's violence was very specifically aimed at avoiding harm where ever possible. The white power movements in the US have very insidious links to Prison Gangs and Criminal Gangs and political / racial violence (although they many maintain a legal deniability to terror groups).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 3.30pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
One side in this showed up heavily armed, chanting hate speech; the other side showed up to oppose that insult to civilisation. One of these things is not like the other. I'll repeat the point. Whoever uses violence is to blame. Antifa have used violence in non violent settings...Berkeley for example. Tim Pool was recently attacked. [Link] There is plenty of video of antifa using violence where none is necessary....you get that antifa idiot punching Richard Spencer in the face and running off. Richard Spencer is a jerk but it's an example of using violence where none is required or sanctioned. Where the KKK or other far right groups are using violence then I have the same view of it. If people are breaking the law then the police are the people to deal with it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 3.32pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Yeah whilst I'm not a big fan of Antifa, they're not really in the same ball park as White Supremacist and Neo-Nazi groups in the US who do have a long history of criminality, gang associations and acts of terrorism in the US - You have to go back a long way to the Weather Underground and BLA of the late 60s and 70s to see an equivalent - and even then the Weather Underground's violence was very specifically aimed at avoiding harm where ever possible. The white power movements in the US have very insidious links to Prison Gangs and Criminal Gangs and political / racial violence (although they many maintain a legal deniability to terror groups). I think that is fair comment. But here we have a guy standing up for antifa and presenting them as doing something good. If they were just protesting these far right moronic groups I'd agree with him. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Aug 2017 3.33pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Aug 17 3.34pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
? Where did I say that? The people who use violence are the worse by far....People grouping together to represent horrible views....well they are horrible. Essentially those who take the lives of others because....opinions....These people are the problem...and the bias between the two is troubling. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Aug 2017 3.12pm) Problem is, if one group uses 'the language' of violence as its primary means of expression - The reality is that if you do stand against them, or want to make your voice heard in opposition - you will likely need to resort to violence, at least in self defence - Especially given the tolerance and support these groups find in power to protect them from being labelled and dealt with for what they are - Domestic Terrorists. Its important not to be cowed into silence because of the threat of violence; and that may mean having to respond in kind to defend yourself, and your rights. If someone is trying to intimidate you from the right to protest, or free speech, you may only have to physically resist that pressure in turn, in order to defend your rights (within reason).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 3.36pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Yeah whilst I'm not a big fan of Antifa, they're not really in the same ball park as White Supremacist and Neo-Nazi groups in the US who do have a long history of criminality, gang associations and acts of terrorism in the US - You have to go back a long way to the Weather Underground and BLA of the late 60s and 70s to see an equivalent - and even then the Weather Underground's violence was very specifically aimed at avoiding harm where ever possible. The white power movements in the US have very insidious links to Prison Gangs and Criminal Gangs and political / racial violence (although they many maintain a legal deniability to terror groups). One of the many stories drowned out in the chaos created by Trump and his siding with white supremacists is that the FBI foiled a plot to honour Tim McVeigh's deadly bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City...by bombing a federal building in Oklahoma City. The FBI got onto this f***wit early and let him play out his operation but with - unknown to him - a dud. He even dialed the number on his mobile to detonate the bomb. [Link] This movement is a deadly terrorist group that has proven to be the most deadly threat to Americans in America.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 17 3.37pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Problem is, if one group uses 'the language' of violence as its primary means of expression - The reality is that if you do stand against them, or want to make your voice heard in opposition - you will likely need to resort to violence, at least in self defence - Especially given the tolerance and support these groups find in power to protect them from being labelled and dealt with for what they are - Domestic Terrorists. Its important not to be cowed into silence because of the threat of violence; and that may mean having to respond in kind to defend yourself, and your rights. If someone is trying to intimidate you from the right to protest, or free speech, you may only have to physically resist that pressure in turn, in order to defend your rights (within reason). Oh dear. Discussion ended on my part.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 3.39pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'll repeat the point. Whoever uses violence is to blame. Antifa have used violence in non violent settings...Berkeley for example. Tim Pool was recently attacked. [Link] There is plenty of video of antifa using violence where none is necessary....you get that antifa idiot punching Richard Spencer in the face and running off. Richard Spencer is a jerk but it's an example of using violence where none is required or sanctioned. Where the KKK or other far right groups are using violence then I have the same view of it. If people are breaking the law then the police are the people to deal with it.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 16 Aug 17 3.42pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
If someone is trying to intimidate you from the right to protest, or free speech, you may only have to physically resist that pressure in turn, in order to defend your rights (within reason). In the case of Jews, those scamps were protesting their right to exist on the planet. In the case of people of colour, those cheeky tikes were protesting their right to live free. Still, boys will be boys, eh? Just let 'em be and nothing bad will come of it.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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