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Stirlingsays 28 Jan 21 6.23pm
Originally posted by Spiderman I think you mean rejoiners Sounds like a carpenter's repair shop. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 Jan 21 6.23pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

I think you mean rejoiners

Sounds like a carpenter's repair shop.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Tom-the-eagle Croydon 28 Jan 21 7.27pm
Originally posted by croydon proud Its a race to the bottom for the working man i"m afraid- still- most voted for it, so no complaints boys! It became a race to the bottom for the working man when the country adopted an open door immigration policy meaning foreign workers working for less, thus pushing wages down for the working man. Bricklayers who used to earn £200 per day were suddenly competing with Eastern European Brickes who worked for £80 a day. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 28 Jan 21 7.27pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

Its a race to the bottom for the working man i"m afraid- still- most voted for it, so no complaints boys!

It became a race to the bottom for the working man when the country adopted an open door immigration policy meaning foreign workers working for less, thus pushing wages down for the working man.

Bricklayers who used to earn £200 per day were suddenly competing with Eastern European Brickes who worked for £80 a day.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

cryrst The garden of England 28 Jan 21 7.31pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle It became a race to the bottom for the working man when the country adopted an open door immigration policy meaning foreign workers working for less, thus pushing wages down for the working man. Bricklayers who used to earn £200 per day were suddenly competing with Eastern European Brickes who worked for £80 a day. Stop with truths please tom. It does no good for tory haters. Particularly ones with rental properties which ironically has been allowed by tax loopholes. I'm sure CP declares all of his rent though! Edited by cryrst (28 Jan 2021 7.32pm)

cryrst

The garden of England 28 Jan 21 7.31pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

It became a race to the bottom for the working man when the country adopted an open door immigration policy meaning foreign workers working for less, thus pushing wages down for the working man.

Bricklayers who used to earn £200 per day were suddenly competing with Eastern European Brickes who worked for £80 a day.

Stop with truths please tom. It does no good for tory haters. Particularly ones with rental properties which ironically has been allowed by tax loopholes. I'm sure CP declares all of his rent though!

Edited by cryrst (28 Jan 2021 7.32pm)

Eaglecoops CR3 29 Jan 21 3.43pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle It became a race to the bottom for the working man when the country adopted an open door immigration policy meaning foreign workers working for less, thus pushing wages down for the working man. Bricklayers who used to earn £200 per day were suddenly competing with Eastern European Brickes who worked for £80 a day. 100% correct and has always been my bone of contention with allowing cheap labour into the country. But guess who sponsored it, big business. They were the ones who ended up with a cheap labour force and sold at ever higher prices. End result, massive profits. It’s not difficult to see why they totally objected to us leaving the EU.

Eaglecoops

CR3 29 Jan 21 3.43pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

It became a race to the bottom for the working man when the country adopted an open door immigration policy meaning foreign workers working for less, thus pushing wages down for the working man.

Bricklayers who used to earn £200 per day were suddenly competing with Eastern European Brickes who worked for £80 a day.

100% correct and has always been my bone of contention with allowing cheap labour into the country. But guess who sponsored it, big business. They were the ones who ended up with a cheap labour force and sold at ever higher prices. End result, massive profits. It’s not difficult to see why they totally objected to us leaving the EU.

Matov 29 Jan 21 4.10pm
The vaccine debacle is now entering almost kafkaesque territory. There is so much going on but the EU managed to somehow release a heavily redacted copy of their contract with AZ only for it to prove not so redacted. With all kinds of information which kick into touch so many of their justifications for acting like they are. The EU are showing themselves up in a way that an ardent Leaver like me could only dream of. And doing the most wonderful job of promoting the UK as the ideal place for outside investment. Covering themselves in s***. And doing so at the moment on an hourly basis. [Link] Edited by Matov (29 Jan 2021 4.11pm) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

29 Jan 21 4.10pm

The vaccine debacle is now entering almost kafkaesque territory. There is so much going on but the EU managed to somehow release a heavily redacted copy of their contract with AZ only for it to prove not so redacted. With all kinds of information which kick into touch so many of their justifications for acting like they are.

The EU are showing themselves up in a way that an ardent Leaver like me could only dream of. And doing the most wonderful job of promoting the UK as the ideal place for outside investment.

Covering themselves in s***. And doing so at the moment on an hourly basis.

[Link]

Edited by Matov (29 Jan 2021 4.11pm)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

DanH SW2 29 Jan 21 5.20pm
Originally posted by Matov The vaccine debacle is now entering almost kafkaesque territory. There is so much going on but the EU managed to somehow release a heavily redacted copy of their contract with AZ only for it to prove not so redacted. With all kinds of information which kick into touch so many of their justifications for acting like they are. The EU are showing themselves up in a way that an ardent Leaver like me could only dream of. And doing the most wonderful job of promoting the UK as the ideal place for outside investment. Covering themselves in s***. And doing so at the moment on an hourly basis. [Link] Edited by Matov (29 Jan 2021 4.11pm) They're really not covering themselves in any glory are they! A PR dream for Johnson and the Tories.

DanH

SW2 29 Jan 21 5.20pm

Originally posted by Matov

The EU are showing themselves up in a way that an ardent Leaver like me could only dream of. And doing the most wonderful job of promoting the UK as the ideal place for outside investment.

Covering themselves in s***. And doing so at the moment on an hourly basis.

[Link]

Edited by Matov (29 Jan 2021 4.11pm)

They're really not covering themselves in any glory are they! A PR dream for Johnson and the Tories.

The Dolphin 29 Jan 21 5.28pm
Any vaccine produced in the EU must be kept in the EU for the EU and any vaccine produced in the UK must also be sent to the EU! They actually only approved the AZ vaccine today as well. They have cocked up on the most massive scale possible and are now dictating to Companies what they will do to cover up their cock up. Even the EU citizens must be embarrassed. So pleased we left. Any remainers on here able to defend this Communist approach to the matter?

The Dolphin

29 Jan 21 5.28pm

Any vaccine produced in the EU must be kept in the EU for the EU and any vaccine produced in the UK must also be sent to the EU!
They actually only approved the AZ vaccine today as well.
They have cocked up on the most massive scale possible and are now dictating to Companies what they will do to cover up their cock up.
Even the EU citizens must be embarrassed.
So pleased we left.
Any remainers on here able to defend this Communist approach to the matter?

Matov 29 Jan 21 5.28pm
Originally posted by DanH They're really not covering themselves in any glory are they! A PR dream for Johnson and the Tories. This is incompetence on a truly staggering scale. Throw in Macrons comments about the effectiveness on the over 65's and you have to wonder what the hell is going on? In the last hour or so the EU have announced the imposition of a hard border between Southern and Northern Ireland as part of this 'ban' on exporting vaccines. It is like they are now trying to deliberately provoke HMG who are actually playing this in a pretty understated manner. Something now not starting to add up. This goes beyond simple blame shifting which the EU have huge amounts of form for. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

29 Jan 21 5.28pm

Originally posted by DanH

They're really not covering themselves in any glory are they! A PR dream for Johnson and the Tories.

This is incompetence on a truly staggering scale. Throw in Macrons comments about the effectiveness on the over 65's and you have to wonder what the hell is going on?

In the last hour or so the EU have announced the imposition of a hard border between Southern and Northern Ireland as part of this 'ban' on exporting vaccines.

It is like they are now trying to deliberately provoke HMG who are actually playing this in a pretty understated manner.

Something now not starting to add up. This goes beyond simple blame shifting which the EU have huge amounts of form for.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

chris123 hove actually 29 Jan 21 5.36pm
Originally posted by Matov The vaccine debacle is now entering almost kafkaesque territory. There is so much going on but the EU managed to somehow release a heavily redacted copy of their contract with AZ only for it to prove not so redacted. With all kinds of information which kick into touch so many of their justifications for acting like they are. The EU are showing themselves up in a way that an ardent Leaver like me could only dream of. And doing the most wonderful job of promoting the UK as the ideal place for outside investment. Covering themselves in s***. And doing so at the moment on an hourly basis. [Link] Edited by Matov (29 Jan 2021 4.11pm) We should think of intellectual property controls then eh?

chris123

hove actually 29 Jan 21 5.36pm

Originally posted by Matov

The EU are showing themselves up in a way that an ardent Leaver like me could only dream of. And doing the most wonderful job of promoting the UK as the ideal place for outside investment.

Covering themselves in s***. And doing so at the moment on an hourly basis.

[Link]

Edited by Matov (29 Jan 2021 4.11pm)

We should think of intellectual property controls then eh?

chris123 hove actually 29 Jan 21 5.38pm
edit went wrong Edited by chris123 (29 Jan 2021 5.39pm)

chris123

hove actually 29 Jan 21 5.38pm

edit went wrong

Edited by chris123 (29 Jan 2021 5.39pm)

Matov 29 Jan 21 5.44pm
Originally posted by chris123 We should think of intellectual property controls then eh? I really do not know because this is now into politically unchartered waters. My understanding is that the law is actually on AZ's side with regards to this contract. The EU is taking extra-ordinary measures to try and bring this export ban about. I sense they are trying to provoke HMG into turning it into a tit-for-tat battle because they think that will enable them to somehow come out of this intact. But it is desperate, desperate stuff we are seeing. Beyond any kind of rational response on all kinds of levels. Which makes me wonder just what the hell this is about? It's not like the EU top bods can be sacked, is it? Or be voted out? That's the point of their s***ty organisation, deliberately set up in this manner. This is all weird now and ironically HMG are probably doing more harm to the EU by not reacting. But this is now moving forward at a pace. Not sure how much longer the UK can stay out of the fray. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

29 Jan 21 5.44pm

Originally posted by chris123

We should think of intellectual property controls then eh?

I really do not know because this is now into politically unchartered waters.

My understanding is that the law is actually on AZ's side with regards to this contract. The EU is taking extra-ordinary measures to try and bring this export ban about. I sense they are trying to provoke HMG into turning it into a tit-for-tat battle because they think that will enable them to somehow come out of this intact.

But it is desperate, desperate stuff we are seeing. Beyond any kind of rational response on all kinds of levels. Which makes me wonder just what the hell this is about?

It's not like the EU top bods can be sacked, is it? Or be voted out? That's the point of their s***ty organisation, deliberately set up in this manner.

This is all weird now and ironically HMG are probably doing more harm to the EU by not reacting. But this is now moving forward at a pace. Not sure how much longer the UK can stay out of the fray.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Badger11 Beckenham 29 Jan 21 5.57pm
Originally posted by Matov I really do not know because this is now into politically unchartered waters. My understanding is that the law is actually on AZ's side with regards to this contract. The EU is taking extra-ordinary measures to try and bring this export ban about. I sense they are trying to provoke HMG into turning it into a tit-for-tat battle because they think that will enable them to somehow come out of this intact. But it is desperate, desperate stuff we are seeing. Beyond any kind of rational response on all kinds of levels. Which makes me wonder just what the hell this is about? It's not like the EU top bods can be sacked, is it? Or be voted out? That's the point of their s*ty organisation, deliberately set up in this manner. This is all weird now and ironically HMG are probably doing more harm to the EU by not reacting. But this is now moving forward at a pace. Not sure how much longer the UK can stay out of the fray.** Agreed. We can retaliate but this is people's lives I hope we can stay out of it. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 29 Jan 21 5.57pm

Originally posted by Matov

I really do not know because this is now into politically unchartered waters.

But it is desperate, desperate stuff we are seeing. Beyond any kind of rational response on all kinds of levels. Which makes me wonder just what the hell this is about?

It's not like the EU top bods can be sacked, is it? Or be voted out? That's the point of their s***ty organisation, deliberately set up in this manner.

This is all weird now and ironically HMG are probably doing more harm to the EU by not reacting. But this is now moving forward at a pace. Not sure how much longer the UK can stay out of the fray.

Agreed. We can retaliate but this is people's lives I hope we can stay out of it.

One more point

davenotamonkey 29 Jan 21 6.07pm
Originally posted by DanH It’s economic suicide for one. We’re also not at war with the EU. Why all this ridiculous jingoistic rhetoric? We can be an independent nation but we still have to rely on our nearest geographical neighbours for a myriad of reasons. Raids on vaccine factories. Export controls now in place. Article 16 of the NI protocol enacted barely weeks after agreement (just to make sure no vaccine can slip through into NI). [Link] Under Northern Ireland's Brexit deal all products should be exported from the EU to NI without checks or controls. Are these people still our "friends and allies"? No. No they are not.

davenotamonkey

29 Jan 21 6.07pm

Originally posted by DanH

It’s economic suicide for one. We’re also not at war with the EU.

Why all this ridiculous jingoistic rhetoric? We can be an independent nation but we still have to rely on our nearest geographical neighbours for a myriad of reasons.

Raids on vaccine factories. Export controls now in place.

Article 16 of the NI protocol enacted barely weeks after agreement (just to make sure no vaccine can slip through into NI).

[Link]

Under Northern Ireland's Brexit deal all products should be exported from the EU to NI without checks or controls.

Are these people still our "friends and allies"? No. No they are not.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 21 6.15pm
Originally posted by cryrst Stop with truths please tom. It does no good for tory haters. Particularly ones with rental properties which ironically has been allowed by tax loopholes. I'm sure CP declares all of his rent though! Edited by cryrst (28 Jan 2021 7.32pm) Always !

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 21 6.15pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Stop with truths please tom. It does no good for tory haters. Particularly ones with rental properties which ironically has been allowed by tax loopholes. I'm sure CP declares all of his rent though!

Edited by cryrst (28 Jan 2021 7.32pm)

Always !

Matov 29 Jan 21 6.20pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Are these people still our "friends and allies"? No. No they are not. This s* is now getting scary. And I don't use that word lightly. The way in which Brussels is acting is beyond any kind of rational explanation now. They actually want a vaccine war. Which they lose in terms of the actual supply of the vaccine in question because the UK just cuts off exports of a vital ingredient while we still produce significant amounts of our own here. Yes it will slow down our vaccination progress but its a blip, not a disaster (apart from the extra lives lost of course). But they NEED London now to become the bad guys in all of this. The only explanation for what they are doing. It is actually a war of a sort now. s*, this is really moving quickly. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

29 Jan 21 6.20pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Are these people still our "friends and allies"? No. No they are not.

This s*** is now getting scary. And I don't use that word lightly. The way in which Brussels is acting is beyond any kind of rational explanation now.

They actually want a vaccine war. Which they lose in terms of the actual supply of the vaccine in question because the UK just cuts off exports of a vital ingredient while we still produce significant amounts of our own here. Yes it will slow down our vaccination progress but its a blip, not a disaster (apart from the extra lives lost of course).

But they NEED London now to become the bad guys in all of this. The only explanation for what they are doing. It is actually a war of a sort now. s***, this is really moving quickly.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

steeleye20 Croydon 29 Jan 21 6.28pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Raids on vaccine factories. Export controls now in place. Article 16 of the NI protocol enacted barely weeks after agreement (just to make sure no vaccine can slip through into NI). [Link] Under Northern Ireland's Brexit deal all products should be exported from the EU to NI without checks or controls. Are these people still our "friends and allies"? No. No they are not. The UK is a third party country now, and the EU does not even have a diplomatic presence here. The rules for treatment of third party countries were devised by the UK itself. So it is goodbye from them, and goodbye from us. I am reading of the UK disquiet as I thought would happen, with such a one-sided treaty. But there is no reason to re-visit it from the EU side.

steeleye20

Croydon 29 Jan 21 6.28pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Raids on vaccine factories. Export controls now in place.

Article 16 of the NI protocol enacted barely weeks after agreement (just to make sure no vaccine can slip through into NI).

[Link]

Under Northern Ireland's Brexit deal all products should be exported from the EU to NI without checks or controls.

Are these people still our "friends and allies"? No. No they are not.

The UK is a third party country now, and the EU does not even have a diplomatic presence here.

The rules for treatment of third party countries were devised by the UK itself.

So it is goodbye from them, and goodbye from us.

I am reading of the UK disquiet as I thought would happen, with such a one-sided treaty.

But there is no reason to re-visit it from the EU side.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 21 6.28pm
Originally posted by cryrst Well that's you out then,no punters because of boris, no money because of boris but 3 houses because of boris. Not all bad really Actually, this is correct on 2 points, no punters because of CONservative boris-tick.(he did a deal with uber when London mayor to break 300 year old taxi law with CON servative pm david and CONservative chancellor george). No taxi money because of CON servative boris-tick. The afore mentioned law break has finished the taxi game- nothing to do with corona virus-thats just the icing on the cake! These facts are with my legal team in a lawsuit against uber.(no win-no fee). Point 3. i had my properties before the CONS got to power, so no credit afforded to boris! Just saying mate, just saying.

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 21 6.28pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Well that's you out then,no punters because of boris, no money because of boris but 3 houses because of boris. Not all bad really

Actually, this is correct on 2 points, no punters because of CONservative boris-tick.(he did a deal with uber when London mayor to break 300 year old taxi law with CON servative pm david and CONservative chancellor george). No taxi money because of CON servative boris-tick. The afore mentioned law break has finished the taxi game- nothing to do with corona virus-thats just the icing on the cake! These facts are with my legal team in a lawsuit against uber.(no win-no fee). Point 3. i had my properties before the CONS got to power, so no credit afforded to boris! Just saying mate, just saying.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 21 6.30pm
Originally posted by Matov This s* is now getting scary. And I don't use that word lightly. The way in which Brussels is acting is beyond any kind of rational explanation now. They actually want a vaccine war. Which they lose in terms of the actual supply of the vaccine in question because the UK just cuts off exports of a vital ingredient while we still produce significant amounts of our own here. Yes it will slow down our vaccination progress but its a blip, not a disaster (apart from the extra lives lost of course). But they NEED London now to become the bad guys in all of this. The only explanation for what they are doing. It is actually a war of a sort now. s*, this is really moving quickly. They are apparently acting within the law, just saying.

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 21 6.30pm

Originally posted by Matov

This s*** is now getting scary. And I don't use that word lightly. The way in which Brussels is acting is beyond any kind of rational explanation now.

But they NEED London now to become the bad guys in all of this. The only explanation for what they are doing. It is actually a war of a sort now. s***, this is really moving quickly.

They are apparently acting within the law, just saying.

Matov 29 Jan 21 6.31pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The UK is a third party country now, and the EU does not even have a diplomatic presence here. The rules for treatment of third party countries were devised by the UK itself. So it is goodbye from them, and goodbye from us. I am reading of the UK disquiet as I thought would happen, with such a one-sided treaty. But there is no reason to re-visit it from the EU side. Tell me how effectively making the Irish border a 'hard' one helps anybody? How many vaccines or related products cross over there? A serious question. How many Southern Irish exports cross that border? Seriously, who does this actually help? Can you offer a single positive for Southern Ireland from this turn of events? It is a shocking development. Utterly insane. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

29 Jan 21 6.31pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The UK is a third party country now, and the EU does not even have a diplomatic presence here.

The rules for treatment of third party countries were devised by the UK itself.

So it is goodbye from them, and goodbye from us.

I am reading of the UK disquiet as I thought would happen, with such a one-sided treaty.

But there is no reason to re-visit it from the EU side.

Tell me how effectively making the Irish border a 'hard' one helps anybody? How many vaccines or related products cross over there? A serious question.

How many Southern Irish exports cross that border? Seriously, who does this actually help? Can you offer a single positive for Southern Ireland from this turn of events?

It is a shocking development. Utterly insane.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

chris123 hove actually 29 Jan 21 6.39pm
Originally posted by Matov I really do not know because this is now into politically unchartered waters. My understanding is that the law is actually on AZ's side with regards to this contract. The EU is taking extra-ordinary measures to try and bring this export ban about. I sense they are trying to provoke HMG into turning it into a tit-for-tat battle because they think that will enable them to somehow come out of this intact. But it is desperate, desperate stuff we are seeing. Beyond any kind of rational response on all kinds of levels. Which makes me wonder just what the hell this is about? It's not like the EU top bods can be sacked, is it? Or be voted out? That's the point of their s***ty organisation, deliberately set up in this manner. This is all weird now and ironically HMG are probably doing more harm to the EU by not reacting. But this is now moving forward at a pace. Not sure how much longer the UK can stay out of the fray. The Oxford side of the Oxford Joint Venture as been working on high risk viruses for ages. AZ are bringing volume rather than science.

chris123

hove actually 29 Jan 21 6.39pm

Originally posted by Matov

I really do not know because this is now into politically unchartered waters.

But it is desperate, desperate stuff we are seeing. Beyond any kind of rational response on all kinds of levels. Which makes me wonder just what the hell this is about?

It's not like the EU top bods can be sacked, is it? Or be voted out? That's the point of their s***ty organisation, deliberately set up in this manner.

This is all weird now and ironically HMG are probably doing more harm to the EU by not reacting. But this is now moving forward at a pace. Not sure how much longer the UK can stay out of the fray.

The Oxford side of the Oxford Joint Venture as been working on high risk viruses for ages. AZ are bringing volume rather than science.

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