This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Visit the current forum | Forum Rules
|
Originally posted by W12
You are clearly confused between oppression and suppression. To oppress means to keep (someone) down by unjust force or authority. To repress is (1) to hold back, or (2) to put down by force. Suppress, which is broader and more common than the other two, means (1) to put an end to, (2) to inhibit, and (3) to keep from being revealed. In the case being discussed the details were suppressed by multiple institutions and organisations due to either fear of consequences or political ideology. Being a coward (in the former example) or subscribing to a set of believes (in the latter), are both choices (voluntary) but clearly involved suppression. Leftist arguments never stand up to scrutiny. Edited by W12 (11 Jun 2019 12.48pm)
Nothing whatsover that you write has any connection to the point I made. Nothing! So it seems that you are the one who is confused. To repeat for the umpteenth time I have no idea if the media "suppressed information" or were "oppressed" or any other epithet you wish to use. Nor have I expressed any opinion on it's desirability, or not, if they were in these exchanges because it's NOT the issue. The issue is only whether, should that have happened, press freedom would have been impinged and NOTHING else. Why it takes so many posts for such a simple point to be understood beats me, but that's not my fault. I could hardly have been clearer.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's really sad! After I carefully explain why what you say isn't true you still seem incapable of understanding it. I even highlighted the important words. It cannot surely be that difficult to understand. I’m obviously intellectually challenged, that’s a given but am still waiting for a reason for this story not being reported. All you’re saying is “They didn’t want to”.
|
|
| W12 11 Jun 19 1.22pm | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Nothing whatsover that you write has any connection to the point I made. Nothing! So it seems that you are the one who is confused. To repeat for the umpteenth time I have no idea if the media "suppressed information" or were "oppressed" or any other epithet you wish to use. Nor have I expressed any opinion on it's desirability, or not, if they were in these exchanges because it's NOT the issue. The issue is only whether, should that have happened, press freedom would have been impinged and NOTHING else. Why it takes so many posts for such a simple point to be understood beats me, but that's not my fault. I could hardly have been clearer. OK then yes, the press have complete freedom to suppress information.
|
|
|
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
I’m obviously intellectually challenged, that’s a given but am still waiting for a reason for this story not being reported. All you’re saying is “They didn’t want to”. Then you will have to wait because I have no intention of getting drawn into that subject. By the way, I am not saying “They didn’t want to”. I am not saying anything at all.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
|
Originally posted by W12
OK then yes, the press have complete freedom to suppress information. Unless you want state control over the press then yes. That's what freedom means. To publish, or not publish being their decision alone.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Then you will have to wait because I have no intention of getting drawn into that subject. By the way, I am not saying “They didn’t want to”. I am not saying anything at all. Well, that was worth waiting for.
|
|
| W12 11 Jun 19 2.36pm | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's what freedom means. To publish, or not publish being their decision alone. That used to work when the press themselves were more representative of the people they are supposed to represent (and when the country was more homogeneous). Now the BBC, Sky, Channel 4, ITV news (all the major broadcasters) follow the same political ideals (otherwise you couldn't get a job in the first place) and follow the same script (even in fictional shows). i.e. Orange man bad (and racist, sexist, etc) [all the above in short form soundbite format] Now they are moving on to sexualizing children and promoting racism against white people (even on the BBC, so we are paying for it). What's next I wonder? In short the mainstream media operates for the left wing middle classes and minorities in the population. People who are still young enough are finding better alternatives online (typically long form and far more intelligent and diverse debate) and the mainstream media is in it's death throws.
|
|
| W12 11 Jun 19 3.46pm | |
|---|---|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by W12
That used to work when the press themselves were more representative of the people they are supposed to represent (and when the country was more homogeneous). Now the BBC, Sky, Channel 4, ITV news (all the major broadcasters) follow the same political ideals (otherwise you couldn't get a job in the first place) and follow the same script (even in fictional shows). i.e. Orange man bad (and racist, sexist, etc) [all the above in short form soundbite format] Now they are moving on to sexualizing children and promoting racism against white people (even on the BBC, so we are paying for it). What's next I wonder? In short the mainstream media operates for the left wing middle classes and minorities in the population. People who are still young enough are finding better alternatives online (typically long form and far more intelligent and diverse debate) and the mainstream media is in it's death throws. All you have done there is demonstrate your own political outlook and bias. If you read a really left wing site then you would find just as many criticisms which make the polar opposite points. Any commercial broadcaster is going to be mindful of their audience and generally not promote opinions that alienate them, so neither far right nor far left are going to feature too much. Except in the case of Murdoch owned outlets where a non to subtle lean to the right is obvious. That's especially true in newspapers. You could hardly describe the Sun as left leaning. Nor the Mail, the Express or the Telegraph. The BBC are different but still come in from as much fire from the left as the right. I think myself they have the balance about right. Your list of alleged "sins" gave me a laugh. Every one is just a distortion of reality as seen from a right wing viewpoint. Every one can be easily countered. For instance:- " Minorities cannot be criticised (that's racist) Of course minorities can be criticised. It all depends how, and what for. Any individual can be criticised. Any group of individuals can be criticised, if they promote policies together deserving of criticism. What must not be done is to criticise individuals just because they happen to be part of a minority group. Whether it is racist depends on the criticism. It's the attempt to associate all the innocent people with the guilty which is not acceptable. I agree that people are finding their "news" and information in different ways these days. This brings with it new challenges which have not yet been fully exposed and certainly not sufficiently scrutinised and regulated.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
All you have done there is demonstrate your own political outlook and bias. If you read a really left wing site then you would find just as many criticisms which make the polar opposite points. Any commercial broadcaster is going to be mindful of their audience and generally not promote opinions that alienate them, so neither far right nor far left are going to feature too much. Except in the case of Murdoch owned outlets where a non to subtle lean to the right is obvious. That's especially true in newspapers. You could hardly describe the Sun as left leaning. Nor the Mail, the Express or the Telegraph. The BBC are different but still come in from as much fire from the left as the right. I think myself they have the balance about right. Your list of alleged "sins" gave me a laugh. Every one is just a distortion of reality as seen from a right wing viewpoint. Every one can be easily countered. For instance:- " Minorities cannot be criticised (that's racist) Of course minorities can be criticised. It all depends how, and what for. Any individual can be criticised. Any group of individuals can be criticised, if they promote policies together deserving of criticism. What must not be done is to criticise individuals just because they happen to be part of a minority group. Whether it is racist depends on the criticism. It's the attempt to associate all the innocent people with the guilty which is not acceptable. I agree that people are finding their "news" and information in different ways these days. This brings with it new challenges which have not yet been fully exposed and certainly not sufficiently scrutinised and regulated. Is that why they have recently been warned about their political bias. And before you say "that's the Express"... from the Guardian
|
|
| .TUX. |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
All you have done there is demonstrate your own political outlook and bias. If you read a really left wing site then you would find just as many criticisms which make the polar opposite points. Any commercial broadcaster is going to be mindful of their audience and generally not promote opinions that alienate them, so neither far right nor far left are going to feature too much. Except in the case of Murdoch owned outlets where a non to subtle lean to the right is obvious. That's especially true in newspapers. You could hardly describe the Sun as left leaning. Nor the Mail, the Express or the Telegraph. The BBC are different but still come in from as much fire from the left as the right. I think myself they have the balance about right. Your list of alleged "sins" gave me a laugh. Every one is just a distortion of reality as seen from a right wing viewpoint. Every one can be easily countered. For instance:- " Minorities cannot be criticised (that's racist) Of course minorities can be criticised. It all depends how, and what for. Any individual can be criticised. Any group of individuals can be criticised, if they promote policies together deserving of criticism. What must not be done is to criticise individuals just because they happen to be part of a minority group. Whether it is racist depends on the criticism. It's the attempt to associate all the innocent people with the guilty which is not acceptable. I agree that people are finding their "news" and information in different ways these days. This brings with it new challenges which have not yet been fully exposed and certainly not sufficiently scrutinised and regulated. You can't be real.
Buy Litecoin. |
|
|
Originally posted by W12
That used to work when the press themselves were more representative of the people they are supposed to represent (and when the country was more homogeneous). Now the BBC, Sky, Channel 4, ITV news (all the major broadcasters) follow the same political ideals (otherwise you couldn't get a job in the first place) and follow the same script (even in fictional shows). i.e. Orange man bad (and racist, sexist, etc) [all the above in short form soundbite format] Now they are moving on to sexualizing children and promoting racism against white people (even on the BBC, so we are paying for it). What's next I wonder? In short the mainstream media operates for the left wing middle classes and minorities in the population. People who are still young enough are finding better alternatives online (typically long form and far more intelligent and diverse debate) and the mainstream media is in it's death throws. Good post. Spot on analysis.
|
|
|
Originally posted by Spiderman
Is that why they have recently been warned about their political bias. And before you say "that's the Express"... from the Guardian I read those reports! Did you? What both say is neither surprising nor any kind of indication that actual bias exists. What they confirm is that the perception of bias has increased which is obviously true but not the same at all. From the Express piece "The British broadcaster is still believed to be performing well “in many respects”." From the Guardian "The impartiality of the corporation’s news output has come under attack from all sides in recent years, especially following the Brexit referendum. It has been at the focus of discussions over whether the national broadcaster should be giving airtime to individuals who represent extreme views in the name of balance. Hall said that perceptions of the BBC’s impartiality had ‘“weakened in recent years”, adding: “We need to see what we can do to strengthen them.” That Ofcom should investigate complaints of bias is quite right and is only doing it's duty. That doesn't mean that bias actually exists, especially if the source of the complaints is itself biased in one direction or the other. Your own attitude is confirmation of a biased viewpoint. The BBC have a tricky path to find and then follow. I think they do pretty well.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
|
Originally posted by .TUX.
You can't be real. Of course I am. I see things as they really are and not from either a far left or far right viewpoint. That those on the extremes feel they don't get a fair hearing has been a complaint for a very long time. The difference is that the hard right are more energised and vocal at the moment. It doesn't mean they don't get the coverage they deserve. See my previous response to "Spiderman".
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Of course I am. I see things as they really are and not from either a far left or far right viewpoint. That those on the extremes feel they don't get a fair hearing has been a complaint for a very long time. The difference is that the hard right are more energised and vocal at the moment. It doesn't mean they don't get the coverage they deserve. See my previous response to "Spiderman". Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Keep taking the meds. If you don't see bias from all the major networks then you are the Stevie Wonder of the HOL.
|
|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Of course I am. I see things as they really are and not from either a far left or far right viewpoint. That those on the extremes feel they don't get a fair hearing has been a complaint for a very long time. The difference is that the hard right are more energised and vocal at the moment. It doesn't mean they don't get the coverage they deserve. See my previous response to "Spiderman". Just out of interest who, among current politicians, fits your definition of “hard right”? Who are the equivalents to Corbyn and McDonnell in your opinion?
|
|
|
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Just out of interest who, among current politicians, fits your definition of “hard right”? Who are the equivalents to Corbyn and McDonnell in your opinion? Most Tory MPs are not as hard to the right as some are on here, but there are enough. The Monday Club members fit the bill. Iain Duncan Smith, Peter Bone, Edward Leigh and Bill Cash come to mind as well known names but there are lots of others whose politics I don't much like. That these folk are popular with rank and file Tories is true. Those rank and file Tories are not though typical of the average voter and that's why choosing a PM from the right would be a disastrous long term mistake. No party can succeed with policies on either margin. They must hold the middle and lean slightly one way. You might think it's boring but it's a fact.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Keep taking the meds. If you don't see bias from all the major networks then you are the Stevie Wonder of the HOL. That you disagree just shows your own bias doesn't it? I think I prefer the professional judgement of experienced journalists to decide how and what gets presented than anyone posting here. Both of us included. They have carefully considered guidelines to follow. We don't.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That you disagree just shows your own bias doesn't it? I think I prefer the professional judgement of experienced journalists to decide how and what gets presented than anyone posting here. Both of us included. They have carefully considered guidelines to follow. We don't. It's quaint that you trust 'experienced journalists'.
|
|
| W12 12 Jun 19 9.18am | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
All you have done there is demonstrate your own political outlook and bias. If you read a really left wing site then you would find just as many criticisms which make the polar opposite points. Any commercial broadcaster is going to be mindful of their audience and generally not promote opinions that alienate them, so neither far right nor far left are going to feature too much. Except in the case of Murdoch owned outlets where a non to subtle lean to the right is obvious. That's especially true in newspapers. You could hardly describe the Sun as left leaning. Nor the Mail, the Express or the Telegraph. The BBC are different but still come in from as much fire from the left as the right. I think myself they have the balance about right. Your list of alleged "sins" gave me a laugh. Every one is just a distortion of reality as seen from a right wing viewpoint. Every one can be easily countered. For instance:- " Minorities cannot be criticised (that's racist) Of course minorities can be criticised. It all depends how, and what for. Any individual can be criticised. Any group of individuals can be criticised, if they promote policies together deserving of criticism. What must not be done is to criticise individuals just because they happen to be part of a minority group. Whether it is racist depends on the criticism. It's the attempt to associate all the innocent people with the guilty which is not acceptable. I agree that people are finding their "news" and information in different ways these days. This brings with it new challenges which have not yet been fully exposed and certainly not sufficiently scrutinised and regulated. All you have done there is demonstrate your own political outlook and bias
|
|
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2025 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.