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June 12 2024 1.05pm

Climate Change Activists

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 26 Jul 23 4.58pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Constant one liners

Depends how fast you move, and how soon you embrace change.

I would think a lot of those target dates will get watered down once people work out the actual route to achieve the aims. Pace of change will also have to vary country to country.

Always works like this – set ambitious target, then work out how to get there (and adjust accordingly).

Doesn't mean you just sit on your hands and whistle as an alternative, though.

It's not so much the dates as the cost.
If you're that keen you can pay my share.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 26 Jul 23 6.57pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

It's not so much the dates as the cost.
If you're that keen you can pay my share.

My point exactly. If the eco warriors and all their ilk are so keen then maybe help the people financially to effect the change to greener. This includes governments who keep battering and taking to get the end goal.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 26 Jul 23 7.29pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

However, nuclear should play a decent role within the future energy mix. The call for ditching it entirely is nonsensical in my opinion, but it isn't affordable, practical or secure for it to be the sole energy source.

Nuclear could be the primary source. Sure, issues to over-come but even so, worth investing in the research.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 26 Jul 23 8.27pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Nuclear could be the primary source. Sure, issues to over-come but even so, worth investing in the research.

Pretty big issues. Not sure it could ever be primary – too expensive, too complex and would take way too long.

Most other sources including gas turbine and wind, solar, battery are cheaper, faster to build and cost way less per mwh over their lifetime. The cost per mwh for renewables is still dropping, whereas nuclear is increasing.

Moving to a mixed energy landscape with nuclear as part of that mix means a faster and cheaper transition way from fossil fuels.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 26 Jul 23 8.43pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

It's not so much the dates as the cost.
If you're that keen you can pay my share.

Two lines, what a rare treat.

It's relative though, isn't it.

You're paying for new energy sources to be built all the time. Have done for the last 50 years or more.

The government will not want to be in a situation where they're moving too fast and it's costing their electorate. Hence the world 'transition' and dates that will need to be reappraised to suit. Similar to the cost of owning and running an EV – it can't be more expensive than what we pay now for combustion cars, otherwise the whole thing falls apart.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 26 Jul 23 8.59pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Two lines, what a rare treat.

It's relative though, isn't it.

You're paying for new energy sources to be built all the time. Have done for the last 50 years or more.

The government will not want to be in a situation where they're moving too fast and it's costing their electorate. Hence the world 'transition' and dates that will need to be reappraised to suit. Similar to the cost of owning and running an EV – it can't be more expensive than what we pay now for combustion cars, otherwise the whole thing falls apart.


Heat pumps are already more expensive and according to some reports not particularly effective at 4 degrees or less which in Scotland isn't very effective at all.


[Link]

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 26 Jul 23 9.22pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle


Heat pumps are already more expensive and according to some reports not particularly effective at 4 degrees or less which in Scotland isn't very effective at all.


[Link]

I've already covered my issue with banning gas boilers (and why that won't happen in the timeframes they've given) above. It will cost too much, consumers will reject it and isn't practical in the short term. The Scots Govt. will find that out soon enough – it's up there with the just as brilliant idea of 'simply convert everything to Hydrogen'. Inevitable massive recent windback... Moronic.

There are far bigger environmental fish to fry than that anyway. Would be a good move from an energy security perspective though. The sooner we can practically wean off Gas the better.

In terms of heat pumps, specifically, some operate down to -22 with pretty good efficiency from what I can see. They'll be installed in new builds where they have far better insulation and need to be used less (so more cost efficient).

Edited by SW19 CPFC (26 Jul 2023 9.26pm)

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 26 Jul 23 9.31pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I've already covered my issue with banning gas boilers (and why that won't happen in the timeframes they've given) above. It will cost too much, consumers will reject it and isn't practical in the short term. The Scots Govt. will find that out soon enough – it's up there with the just as brilliant idea of 'simply convert everything to Hydrogen'. Inevitable massive recent windback... Moronic.

There are far bigger environmental fish to fry than that anyway. Would be a good move from an energy security perspective though. The sooner we can practically wean off Gas the better.

In terms of heat pumps, specifically, some operate down to -22 with pretty good efficiency from what I can see. They'll be installed in new builds where they have far better insulation and need to be used less (so more cost efficient).

Edited by SW19 CPFC (26 Jul 2023 9.26pm)

It’s difficult for consumers to reject heat pumps (or anything else), if the Government makes it against the law to do so. You place far too much trust in the authorities giving us a say in the process.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 27 Jul 23 12.05am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

It’s difficult for consumers to reject heat pumps (or anything else), if the Government makes it against the law to do so. You place far too much trust in the authorities giving us a say in the process.

Trust has nothing to do with it. Simple market economics. Too expensive = rejection/unaffordable = business model fail

Hence the hydrogen wind back.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 27 Jul 23 4.42am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Is there anybody else out there who thinks all this global warming green energy brigade is all overkill, Who believes oil and gas still have a big place on the planet and will continue to fuel fast loud cars and bikes and aeroplanes.
And who turns their lights on at night and has a very warm house in the winter ventilated by opening windows? Hot showers and baths and traditional cookers fridges etc.
Loves log and coal fires and garden bonfires and the smell of them. Flies on commercial planes regularly.
Think the vast majority of the green peace, stop oil etc groups are hypocrites, because they must turn their lights on and heat their homes when it goes cold and night time comes.
Doesn't wipe/wash their hands every 5 minutes with disposable cloths, and pees behind trees in a park when the need arises.
Is their anybody else out there who admits they live their life like this?
Only, come winter whenever I go walking at dusk, I see lights on everywhere and the vast majority of people still living the comfort life.
When I walk down from Grange Park where I park up before winter games and the night sky is lit up by the Selhurst floodlights long before the match (and after) no doubt for health and safety reasons, and Sky cameras and machines are everywhere beaming the games out into peoples warm houses that on my walk to and from the ground are all very well lit
And none of them appear guilty about it or planning a change from it.
Just asking

Edited by dreamwaverider (27 Jul 2023 4.50am)

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 27 Jul 23 6.17am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I've already covered my issue with banning gas boilers (and why that won't happen in the timeframes they've given) above. It will cost too much, consumers will reject it and isn't practical in the short term. The Scots Govt. will find that out soon enough – it's up there with the just as brilliant idea of 'simply convert everything to Hydrogen'. Inevitable massive recent windback... Moronic.

There are far bigger environmental fish to fry than that anyway. Would be a good move from an energy security perspective though. The sooner we can practically wean off Gas the better.

In terms of heat pumps, specifically, some operate down to -22 with pretty good efficiency from what I can see. They'll be installed in new builds where they have far better insulation and need to be used less (so more cost efficient).

Edited by SW19 CPFC (26 Jul 2023 9.26pm)

You are correct in operating at low temperatures. The problem is that the water that heats your radiators and your hot water in most systems (depending on the refrigerant used) only gets to around 50*c. This means that your current radiators are not big enough. They need to be approximately 50%-60% bigger in surface area to allow the same amount of heat into the space. The pipework will probably need modernising for both zoning and dynamic flow due to the bigger radiators. Your hot water cylinder will need an electric element fitted to get the water past 60* c ( the L8 recommendation).
All this alongside your house or flat etc being over a certain U value. That is just some of the changes needed to get a heat pump to be viable. ( what’s the carbon footprint to manufacture and install that lot). Then you have the tricky calculation of how many KW would your heat pump need to operate; many people have a fuse board able to deliver 60-80 amps. Divide that by 4 (ohmms law) roughly and that’s really the KW that your incoming power cable can safely deliver through the fuse board. ( dependent on the type of load) This might need a bigger cable installed as well. ( diggers, tarmac etc) Your heat pump may be 18Kw so bung an electric shower of say 8 kw on and you do the math.
So yes heat pumps would be electric only and if produced cleanly would be better for the dolphins but it’s not the silver bullet when allied to the above. A rough guesstimate to upgrade the uk electric grid is 4-6 trillion pounds over many years. That’s 3 x our GDP. That’s not goner happen any time soon.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 27 Jul 23 12.55pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

You are correct in operating at low temperatures. The problem is that the water that heats your radiators and your hot water in most systems (depending on the refrigerant used) only gets to around 50*c. This means that your current radiators are not big enough. They need to be approximately 50%-60% bigger in surface area to allow the same amount of heat into the space. The pipework will probably need modernising for both zoning and dynamic flow due to the bigger radiators. Your hot water cylinder will need an electric element fitted to get the water past 60* c ( the L8 recommendation).
All this alongside your house or flat etc being over a certain U value. That is just some of the changes needed to get a heat pump to be viable. ( what’s the carbon footprint to manufacture and install that lot). Then you have the tricky calculation of how many KW would your heat pump need to operate; many people have a fuse board able to deliver 60-80 amps. Divide that by 4 (ohmms law) roughly and that’s really the KW that your incoming power cable can safely deliver through the fuse board. ( dependent on the type of load) This might need a bigger cable installed as well. ( diggers, tarmac etc) Your heat pump may be 18Kw so bung an electric shower of say 8 kw on and you do the math.
So yes heat pumps would be electric only and if produced cleanly would be better for the dolphins but it’s not the silver bullet when allied to the above. A rough guesstimate to upgrade the uk electric grid is 4-6 trillion pounds over many years. That’s 3 x our GDP. That’s not goner happen any time soon.

That was literally my point.

New builds > heat pumps

Older houses/flats > very slow process of upgrading over decades either to heat pumps or electric boilers, ideally timed with the grid transition to cheaper and more secure electricity (long term)

In this country at least, it's the only practical, affordable (and logical) solution.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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