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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 18 Dec 19 5.16pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle We are a well established Premier League club and billionaires the world over are queuing up to buy into clubs like us so why hasn't anyone bought us if not for the stumbling block of a minority shareholder who wants to run the club on a day to day basis plus asking price is too high. Going by reports they want very high amounts so why would some one buy Palace when for less they could buy Newcastle (Newcastle has larger fan base, better training & youth setup plus much better stadium as well only thing positive for Palace is it's London) (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]

grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 18 Dec 19 5.16pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

We are a well established Premier League club and billionaires the world over are queuing up to buy into clubs like us so why hasn't anyone bought us if not for the stumbling block of a minority shareholder who wants to run the club on a day to day basis

plus asking price is too high.

Going by reports they want very high amounts so why would some one buy Palace when for less they could buy Newcastle (Newcastle has larger fan base, better training & youth setup plus much better stadium as well only thing positive for Palace is it's London)

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Painter Croydon 18 Dec 19 5.27pm
Originally posted by grumpymort plus asking price is too high. Going by reports they want very high amounts so why would some one buy Palace when for less they could buy Newcastle (Newcastle has larger fan base, better training & youth setup plus much better stadium as well only thing positive for Palace is it's London) Ashley is holding out for £350m, I haven't seen any reports our asking price is anywhere near that. £220m is the highest reported price.

Painter

Croydon 18 Dec 19 5.27pm

Originally posted by grumpymort

plus asking price is too high.

Ashley is holding out for £350m, I haven't seen any reports our asking price is anywhere near that. £220m is the highest reported price.

Wilbraham413 18 Dec 19 6.12pm
The relegation/promotion model for the league is a huge disincentive for investors, and it makes it hard for normal clubs to grow. Throw out the big six clubs, and each year you relegate 3 out of the 14 regular teams. All things being equal, that's over a 20% chance that your premier league investment is going to be making championship level revenue next year. And if you manage to avoid relegation, there's no big payoff outside of the clubs that make Europe. You collect your revenue, then repeat the same thing the following year. If you think about it in terms of trying to profit, the best thing to do is to invest in a championship side, or even lower, pump enough cash to get them to the PL, then cash out immediately. The only way it makes sense to invest in PL club is if you do like Man City or Chelsea, and buy a guaranteed finish in the top half of the league each year. But with FFP, I don't think you can even do that anymore. Personally, I think relegating 3 teams is too many from the top league, especially when 6 are already untouchable. A few months of bad luck, and it's easy to end up 17th. It would give more stability to the league if just 2 or even 1 team was relegated each year. 2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro 2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley 2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth 2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle

Wilbraham413

18 Dec 19 6.12pm

The relegation/promotion model for the league is a huge disincentive for investors, and it makes it hard for normal clubs to grow. Throw out the big six clubs, and each year you relegate 3 out of the 14 regular teams. All things being equal, that's over a 20% chance that your premier league investment is going to be making championship level revenue next year.

And if you manage to avoid relegation, there's no big payoff outside of the clubs that make Europe. You collect your revenue, then repeat the same thing the following year.

If you think about it in terms of trying to profit, the best thing to do is to invest in a championship side, or even lower, pump enough cash to get them to the PL, then cash out immediately.

The only way it makes sense to invest in PL club is if you do like Man City or Chelsea, and buy a guaranteed finish in the top half of the league each year. But with FFP, I don't think you can even do that anymore.

Personally, I think relegating 3 teams is too many from the top league, especially when 6 are already untouchable. A few months of bad luck, and it's easy to end up 17th. It would give more stability to the league if just 2 or even 1 team was relegated each year.

2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro
2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley
2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth
2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle

Midlands Eagle 18 Dec 19 7.29pm
Originally posted by Painter Ashley is holding out for £350m, I haven't seen any reports our asking price is anywhere near that. £220m is the highest reported price. £350m for 100% of the club whereas how much of our much smaller club is being sold for £220m

Midlands Eagle

18 Dec 19 7.29pm

Originally posted by Painter

Ashley is holding out for £350m, I haven't seen any reports our asking price is anywhere near that. £220m is the highest reported price.

£350m for 100% of the club whereas how much of our much smaller club is being sold for £220m

Lombardinho London 19 Dec 19 12.31am
Originally posted by Wilbraham413 The relegation/promotion model for the league is a huge disincentive for investors, and it makes it hard for normal clubs to grow. Throw out the big six clubs, and each year you relegate 3 out of the 14 regular teams. All things being equal, that's over a 20% chance that your premier league investment is going to be making championship level revenue next year. And if you manage to avoid relegation, there's no big payoff outside of the clubs that make Europe. You collect your revenue, then repeat the same thing the following year. If you think about it in terms of trying to profit, the best thing to do is to invest in a championship side, or even lower, pump enough cash to get them to the PL, then cash out immediately. The only way it makes sense to invest in PL club is if you do like Man City or Chelsea, and buy a guaranteed finish in the top half of the league each year. But with FFP, I don't think you can even do that anymore. Personally, I think relegating 3 teams is too many from the top league, especially when 6 are already untouchable. A few months of bad luck, and it's easy to end up 17th. It would give more stability to the league if just 2 or even 1 team was relegated each year. Yes, but if you do....you stay up!

Lombardinho

London 19 Dec 19 12.31am

Originally posted by Wilbraham413

And if you manage to avoid relegation, there's no big payoff outside of the clubs that make Europe. You collect your revenue, then repeat the same thing the following year.

If you think about it in terms of trying to profit, the best thing to do is to invest in a championship side, or even lower, pump enough cash to get them to the PL, then cash out immediately.

Yes, but if you do....you stay up!

Daddyorc Atlantic Highlands, NJ 19 Dec 19 2.06am
Originally posted by Lombardinho Yes, but if you do....you stay up! Touche monsieur pussycat 🐱. 18th is relegation. But he's right (in theory), establish yourself as a premier league team, take out money, cash in, then have them relegated. Best business model.

Daddyorc

Atlantic Highlands, NJ 19 Dec 19 2.06am

Originally posted by Lombardinho

Yes, but if you do....you stay up!

Touche monsieur pussycat 🐱. 18th is relegation.

But he's right (in theory), establish yourself as a premier league team, take out money, cash in, then have them relegated. Best business model.

Wilbraham413 19 Dec 19 3.10am
Originally posted by Lombardinho Yes, but if you do....you stay up! Right, sorry, I meant 18th. Point being, there really isn't a huge difference between an 11th place team and an 18th place team. It just takes a few unlucky results, and one or two key injuries, and even a decent PL team can easily end up in 18th. That makes for exciting matches all season, but it's terrible if you want to encourage investors. There's no team outside the top 6 that I would put my personal finances on the line to gamble that they'll be in the PL in 2-3 years. Billionaires recognize the same thing. It's all risk, and little reward. 2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro 2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley 2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth 2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle

Wilbraham413

19 Dec 19 3.10am

Originally posted by Lombardinho
Yes, but if you do....you stay up!

Right, sorry, I meant 18th.

Point being, there really isn't a huge difference between an 11th place team and an 18th place team. It just takes a few unlucky results, and one or two key injuries, and even a decent PL team can easily end up in 18th.

That makes for exciting matches all season, but it's terrible if you want to encourage investors. There's no team outside the top 6 that I would put my personal finances on the line to gamble that they'll be in the PL in 2-3 years. Billionaires recognize the same thing. It's all risk, and little reward.

ARGILE OLD GEEZER PORTIMAO 19 Dec 19 8.31am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle I'm not sure what your comment has to do with the post that you quoted. As I have said on more than one occasion anyone thinking of investing hundreds of millions into a football club will want 100% ownership so it's Mr P's reluctance to sell his own equity that is likely to stop any sale And as I have said before, you don't need 100% to control a club/business, if you have 51%you have complete control and cannot be outvoted

ARGILE OLD GEEZER

PORTIMAO 19 Dec 19 8.31am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I'm not sure what your comment has to do with the post that you quoted.

As I have said on more than one occasion anyone thinking of investing hundreds of millions into a football club will want 100% ownership so it's Mr P's reluctance to sell his own equity that is likely to stop any sale

And as I have said before, you don't need 100% to control a club/business, if you have 51%you have complete control and cannot be outvoted

MonsterMunch Cambridge 19 Dec 19 9.24am
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig I'm sure Parish would invest in the team if he were flying solo, but investing in the team isn't our medium term challenge. Sure we can do that, but over time we'll find ourselves competing more and more with clubs that generate better free cash flow. So team investment sort of papers over structural cracks. To truly consolidate, the stadium needs upgrading massively. And I am unsure some bigwig investor will come in and enlarge Selhurst and do all the grunt work involved. That's dull, detail heavy work for the kind of investor who's rich enough to do it. They can delegate but is anyone going to do markedly better than Parish? I doubt it. So, the way I see it, would-be investors may well still want Parish involved. This is how I see it. I think Palace are in a unique situation with regards our stadium. The whole thing really needs knocking down and rebuilding. Its such a huge investment needed just for our ground, let alone the actual purchase price of the club and ongoing issues with planning etc. Getting the stand done would be a step forward but really its just a bolt on to the rest of the heap that is Selhurst park. For me its the stadium situation that is making Palace unattractive to investors/new owners

MonsterMunch

Cambridge 19 Dec 19 9.24am

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

I'm sure Parish would invest in the team if he were flying solo, but investing in the team isn't our medium term challenge.

Sure we can do that, but over time we'll find ourselves competing more and more with clubs that generate better free cash flow. So team investment sort of papers over structural cracks.

To truly consolidate, the stadium needs upgrading massively. And I am unsure some bigwig investor will come in and enlarge Selhurst and do all the grunt work involved.

That's dull, detail heavy work for the kind of investor who's rich enough to do it. They can delegate but is anyone going to do markedly better than Parish? I doubt it.

So, the way I see it, would-be investors may well still want Parish involved.

This is how I see it. I think Palace are in a unique situation with regards our stadium. The whole thing really needs knocking down and rebuilding. Its such a huge investment needed just for our ground, let alone the actual purchase price of the club and ongoing issues with planning etc. Getting the stand done would be a step forward but really its just a bolt on to the rest of the heap that is Selhurst park. For me its the stadium situation that is making Palace unattractive to investors/new owners

Midlands Eagle 19 Dec 19 9.53am
Originally posted by ARGILE OLD GEEZER And as I have said before, you don't need 100% to control a club/business, if you have 51%you have complete control and cannot be outvoted Obviously corporate finance isn't your speciality Company is making no profit New investor buys 82% of the shares and pumps £100m into the company With new investment company now makes £80m profit and distributes it as a dividend Existing 18% shareholder earns £14.4m in dividends for doing nothing

Midlands Eagle

19 Dec 19 9.53am

Originally posted by ARGILE OLD GEEZER

And as I have said before, you don't need 100% to control a club/business, if you have 51%you have complete control and cannot be outvoted

Obviously corporate finance isn't your speciality

Company is making no profit

New investor buys 82% of the shares and pumps £100m into the company

With new investment company now makes £80m profit and distributes it as a dividend

Existing 18% shareholder earns £14.4m in dividends for doing nothing

rollercoaster Cornwall 19 Dec 19 3.29pm
So can someone explain who exactly controls the club. I constantly hear moaning that the Americans want out and therefore we cannot spend any money on transfers. In another post I read that they hold 36% of the shares? Now that is nowhere near a contolling interest. So what is really going on? Personally I cannot see why anyone would invest in our club. I cannot see where/when they would get a return on their money apart from asset stripping. Some owners have clubs for the prestige value but whilst we love our club I do not think there is any real prestige in owning us. We are not, never have and likely never will be a glamourous club. I for one am grateful that we have real Palace fans on the board and hope they can continue to limit the damage that potential 'investors' might do.

rollercoaster

Cornwall 19 Dec 19 3.29pm

So can someone explain who exactly controls the club. I constantly hear moaning that the Americans want out and therefore we cannot spend any money on transfers. In another post I read that they hold 36% of the shares? Now that is nowhere near a contolling interest.

So what is really going on?

Personally I cannot see why anyone would invest in our club. I cannot see where/when they would get a return on their money apart from asset stripping. Some owners have clubs for the prestige value but whilst we love our club I do not think there is any real prestige in owning us. We are not, never have and likely never will be a glamourous club.

I for one am grateful that we have real Palace fans on the board and hope they can continue to limit the damage that potential 'investors' might do.

bexleydave Barnehurst 19 Dec 19 4.23pm
Originally posted by rollercoaster So can someone explain who exactly controls the club. I constantly hear moaning that the Americans want out and therefore we cannot spend any money on transfers. In another post I read that they hold 36% of the shares? Now that is nowhere near a contolling interest. So what is really going on? Personally I cannot see why anyone would invest in our club. I cannot see where/when they would get a return on their money apart from asset stripping. Some owners have clubs for the prestige value but whilst we love our club I do not think there is any real prestige in owning us. We are not, never have and likely never will be a glamourous club. I for one am grateful that we have real Palace fans on the board and hope they can continue to limit the damage that potential 'investors' might do. Parish is the only director that could be described as a "fan". The other three of the original four are either minority shareholders or gone altogether. The US investors are directors and Parish is CEO, plus there's a company secretary. From previous information that's been made public, there would seem to be a plethora of minor shareholders, many on the other side of the Atlantic. The three major shareholders apparently own 54% of CPFC2010 with the remainder presumably owned by minority shareholders, not involved in executive decision making: [Link] Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

bexleydave

Barnehurst 19 Dec 19 4.23pm

Originally posted by rollercoaster

So what is really going on?

I for one am grateful that we have real Palace fans on the board and hope they can continue to limit the damage that potential 'investors' might do.

Parish is the only director that could be described as a "fan". The other three of the original four are either minority shareholders or gone altogether. The US investors are directors and Parish is CEO, plus there's a company secretary. From previous information that's been made public, there would seem to be a plethora of minor shareholders, many on the other side of the Atlantic. The three major shareholders apparently own 54% of CPFC2010 with the remainder presumably owned by minority shareholders, not involved in executive decision making:

[Link]

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

braunstoneagle the middle of bumf*** nowhere... 19 Dec 19 6.45pm
i think the club is in a good place with parish as chairman. he is doing a good job and continually taking the club forward even if it is babysteps. br careful what you wish for, for me any takeover should be dependant on parish still taking control of the day to day running. ‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway

braunstoneagle

the middle of bumf*** nowhere... 19 Dec 19 6.45pm

i think the club is in a good place with parish as chairman.

he is doing a good job and continually taking the club forward even if it is babysteps.

br careful what you wish for, for me any takeover should be dependant on parish still taking control of the day to day running.

‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway

ARGILE OLD GEEZER PORTIMAO 20 Dec 19 5.41am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Obviously corporate finance isn't your speciality Company is making no profit New investor buys 82% of the shares and pumps £100m into the company With new investment company now makes £80m profit and distributes it as a dividend Existing 18% shareholder earns £14.4m in dividends for doing nothing Have you explained your theory to the Americans.

ARGILE OLD GEEZER

PORTIMAO 20 Dec 19 5.41am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Obviously corporate finance isn't your speciality

Company is making no profit

New investor buys 82% of the shares and pumps £100m into the company

With new investment company now makes £80m profit and distributes it as a dividend

Existing 18% shareholder earns £14.4m in dividends for doing nothing

Have you explained your theory to the Americans.

aashman12 20 Dec 19 7.51am
Originally posted by MonsterMunch This is how I see it. I think Palace are in a unique situation with regards our stadium. The whole thing really needs knocking down and rebuilding. Its such a huge investment needed just for our ground, let alone the actual purchase price of the club and ongoing issues with planning etc. Getting the stand done would be a step forward but really its just a bolt on to the rest of the heap that is Selhurst park. For me its the stadium situation that is making Palace unattractive to investors/new owners Fully agree, the footprint we're working on is way too small to build anything decent,

aashman12

20 Dec 19 7.51am

Originally posted by MonsterMunch

Fully agree, the footprint we're working on is way too small to build anything decent,

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 20 Dec 19 9.34am
I do hear some information from reputable sources but I have not heard of any potential deal on the horizon. That is not to say there isn't one - no obligation at all to divulge this to me.I'm a nobody, I don't walk down the corridors of power at the club. Edited by Willo (20 Dec 2019 9.47am)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 20 Dec 19 9.34am

I do hear some information from reputable sources but I have not heard of any potential deal on the horizon.
That is not to say there isn't one - no obligation at all to divulge this to me.I'm a nobody, I don't walk down the corridors of power at the club.

Edited by Willo (20 Dec 2019 9.47am)

bexleydave Barnehurst 20 Dec 19 9.55am
Originally posted by Willo I do hear some information from reputable sources but I have not heard of any potential deal on the horizon. That is not to say there isn't one - no obligation at all to divulge this to me.I'm a nobody, I don't walk down the corridors of power at the club. Stop the false humility Willo Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

bexleydave

Barnehurst 20 Dec 19 9.55am

Originally posted by Willo

Stop the false humility Willo

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 20 Dec 19 9.58am
Originally posted by bexleydave Stop the false humility Willo With respect not "False" at all. At the end of the day I am just one of life's modest trundlers and displayed numerous bouts of self-deprecation both inside and outside of HOL. Edited by Willo (20 Dec 2019 10.01am)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 20 Dec 19 9.58am

Originally posted by bexleydave

Stop the false humility Willo

With respect not "False" at all.
At the end of the day I am just one of life's modest trundlers and displayed numerous bouts of self-deprecation both inside and outside of HOL.

Edited by Willo (20 Dec 2019 10.01am)

Palace in the Blood 20 Dec 19 12.42pm
None of us can be 100% sure of what is going on inside the club and we can only speculate. We do not know why the Americans want out. They knew the finances and risks involved before they invested so I feel we can ignore that. So they want out for more personal reasons which may also mean they do not like way club is run. SP is a strength and also a weakness, it is nice to have a fan as a director/CEO. However it seems likely that he wishes to remain CEO and that will at best reduce interested parties and potentially price. Changing his mind after pressure like over singing section is also a factor. It will have had an influence on planning descisions. SP does not have finance to run club on own. Descisions on players wage bill compared to income do not make us an attractive proposition for some investors. The best outcome would be a buyer possibly keeping SP as a director. A new CEO who will not be so hands on with football matters. Hopefully to recruit a new Director of football to manage player recruitment and all football related matters including manager succession

Palace in the Blood

20 Dec 19 12.42pm

None of us can be 100% sure of what is going on inside the club and we can only speculate.
We do not know why the Americans want out. They knew the finances and risks involved before they invested so I feel we can ignore that. So they want out for more personal reasons which may also mean they do not like way club is run.
SP is a strength and also a weakness, it is nice to have a fan as a director/CEO. However it seems likely that he wishes to remain CEO and that will at best reduce interested parties and potentially price.
Changing his mind after pressure like over singing section is also a factor. It will have had an influence on planning descisions.
SP does not have finance to run club on own.
Descisions on players wage bill compared to income do not make us an attractive proposition for some investors.
The best outcome would be a buyer possibly keeping SP as a director. A new CEO who will not be so hands on with football matters. Hopefully to recruit a new Director of football to manage player recruitment and all football related matters including manager succession

Chubskip 20 Dec 19 3.49pm
Investors will want a return on their capital can't see this on our 25000 or so capacity.

Chubskip

20 Dec 19 3.49pm

Investors will want a return on their capital can't see this on our 25000 or so capacity.

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