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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 05 Feb 21 6.37pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

The team that finishes the season in 10th place is genuinely the team that earnt 10th place.

When arguments that you put forward are refuted you try and claim it as bending the truth. Yet you try and claim that the position at the end of the season isn't the absolute truth.

You're argument is contrived nonsense.

Late season games involving teams who have either achieved their objectives, or no longer can, are different to ones with something riding on them.

Hence:

'Team A are on the beach already by the look of it'.
'Team B are playing lovely stuff now that there's no pressure on them'.
'Team C are (or should) give some youth players a chance now their results don't matter as much'.
'Team D are taking the opportunity to look at a new system for next season'.

etc.

The worlds media don't cover the 'heart-stopping race for 9th' do they?

For better or for worse, safe, mid table teams are not under the same pressure come April as they were in January.

In that context, I don't think that if Team B win at home in the sun against a disinterested opponent to move above Team C, who have lost but given five youth team graduates their debut, it scientifically proves that Team B are definitely, irrefutably better than Team C. Or that either would claim as much in any seriousness.

They are just two mid table sides, much of a muchness.

And if that all sounds a bit abstract, well, that's exactly what Palace did on the last day of Pardews first season, hence my point that whether Palace finish 9th, 10th, 11th or even 15th isn't the sole,or even the best, measure of progress.

Mid table is mid table.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (05 Feb 2021 6.40pm)

 

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 05 Feb 21 7.17pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

we don't play till Monday

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 05 Feb 21 7.28pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Late season games involving teams who have either achieved their objectives, or no longer can, are different to ones with something riding on them.

Hence:

'Team A are on the beach already by the look of it'.
'Team B are playing lovely stuff now that there's no pressure on them'.
'Team C are (or should) give some youth players a chance now their results don't matter as much'.
'Team D are taking the opportunity to look at a new system for next season'.

etc.

The worlds media don't cover the 'heart-stopping race for 9th' do they?

For better or for worse, safe, mid table teams are not under the same pressure come April as they were in January.

In that context, I don't think that if Team B win at home in the sun against a disinterested opponent to move above Team C, who have lost but given five youth team graduates their debut, it scientifically proves that Team B are definitely, irrefutably better than Team C. Or that either would claim as much in any seriousness.

They are just two mid table sides, much of a muchness.

And if that all sounds a bit abstract, well, that's exactly what Palace did on the last day of Pardews first season, hence my point that whether Palace finish 9th, 10th, 11th or even 15th isn't the sole,or even the best, measure of progress.

Mid table is mid table.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (05 Feb 2021 6.40pm)

Eh?

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 05 Feb 21 7.34pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Eh?

I'm saying, dear, that I couldn't care less if we finish exactly 10th, or 9th, or 12th. It makes no difference really, and can often come down to a result or two in the end of season dead rubber games which mean little.

Whereas southnorwoodhill is of the opinion, if I have understood correctly, that finishing 10th should be a target within itself as it would suggest progress, whereas 13th, for example, would be unsatisfactory to him.

Or her. I think it's a him though.


Edited by TheBigToePunt (05 Feb 2021 7.34pm)

Edited by TheBigToePunt (05 Feb 2021 7.44pm)

 

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jeeagles Flag 05 Feb 21 7.45pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Eh?

He's trying very very hard to find a way of explaining that the end of year league position shouldn't be used as the ultimate measure of success in the league. It's the whole purpose of a league.

Of course when evaluating a league season you could also add in cup performance.... but that would just make Hodgson look worse.

Hodgson appologists are getting worse. Trying to distract from the fact that a major factor in the two recent wins was down to using a player that had been ignored for 3 seasons and allowing the front 4 to be more fluid. They'd never admit the Roy got anything wrong.

Maybe he's trying to justify the abysmal end to last season?

He comes up with a contrived argument, then when you point out the contradiction and flaws, he calls it fake news.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 05 Feb 21 7.55pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I'm saying, dear, that I couldn't care less if we finish exactly 10th, or 9th, or 12th. It makes no difference really.

Whereas southnorwoodhill is of the opinion, if I have understood correctly, that finishing 10th should be a target within itself as it would suggest progress, whereas 13th, for example, would be unsatisfactory to him.

Or her. I think it's a him though.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (05 Feb 2021 7.34pm)

I am a him, yes.
I'd say aiming for a 10th place finish is a worthy cause, it'll be an improvement over what has been served up over the last few seasons, or perhaps we could find a nice little niche for ourselves in and around 12th to 14th, Hodgson's speciality. I guess it depends what the board wants and how they intend to work any such ambition.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (05 Feb 2021 8.03pm)

 

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View Tickled pink's Profile Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 05 Feb 21 7.55pm Send a Private Message to Tickled pink Add Tickled pink as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

I see. Progress means successive lower finishes each season. Well Mr Hodgson has certainly kicked on to achieve a certain consistency in that regard. I'm glad you helped to explain it.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (05 Feb 2021 9.08am)

Because you're against him you need to find fault in order to feel vindicated It's the same for me and everyone else who feels he is doing a fine job with the tools at his disposal, it's a human thing and I understand where you're coming from.

 

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View Rachid Rachid Rachid's Profile Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 05 Feb 21 7.55pm Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

If your safe with eight games to go then your final position means fvck all really other than being a bit disappointing if it goes the wrong way.

Nice to have a decent points total this season and all mostly playing 442 apart from about 60 minutes.

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 05 Feb 21 8.04pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

I am a him, yes.
I'd say aiming for a 10th place finish is a worthy cause, it'll be an improvement over what has been served up over the last few seasons, or perhaps
we could find a nice little niche for ourselves in and around 12th to 14th, Hodgson's speciality. I guess it depends what the board wants and how they intend to work any such ambition.

Understood, and fair enough, but let me ask you this (genuine) question:

If we are 12th come the final game or two, and only a point or two behind the two or three teams above us, would you rather Hodgson picks our strongest side and priorities finishing 10th, or that he gives starts to the best youth team players we have, and accepts that it might cost us the points?

 

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jeeagles Flag 05 Feb 21 8.08pm

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

I am a him, yes.
I'd say aiming for a 10th place finish is a worthy cause, it'll be an improvement over what has been served up over the last few seasons, or perhaps we could find a nice little niche for ourselves in and around 12th to 14th, Hodgson's speciality. I guess it depends what the board wants and how they intend to work any such ambition.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (05 Feb 2021 8.03pm)

Completely agree. It would be a fantastic achievement. With 8 games to go last year we were looking at a top half finish, we weren't very far off a UEFA cup spot before we lost to Burnley and completely capitulated. There's no excuses for how we finished last season.

Some people think out performing Sheffield United, West Brom, and Fulham will be an achievement this season. Avoiding relegation sounds almost reasonable until you consider the other contenders.

I don't think I'd swap our squad for another from 11th place downwards. We should be aiming higher.

 

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View Tickled pink's Profile Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 05 Feb 21 8.11pm Send a Private Message to Tickled pink Add Tickled pink as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

I am a him, yes.
I'd say aiming for a 10th place finish is a worthy cause, it'll be an improvement over what has been served up over the last few seasons, or perhaps
we could find a nice little niche for ourselves in and around 12th to 14th, Hodgson's speciality. I guess it depends what the board wants and how they intend to work any such ambition.

You're being a little pedantic with this.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 05 Feb 21 8.15pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Understood, and fair enough, but let me ask you this (genuine) question:

If we are 12th come the final game or two, and only a point or two behind the two or three teams above us, would you rather Hodgson picks our strongest side and priorities finishing 10th, or that he gives starts to the best youth team players we have, and accepts that it might cost us the points?

I'd go for the points, every place earns £££, and also feelgood factor. Don't forget, higher placement means actually winning games, now there's a scary thought...
Also there's no reason why youth team players can't make the bench and be given a 15 minute run out if the game is going well.

 

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