Problem for Starmer is that given the scale of the national crisis, it leaves little room for traditional style opposition so he is playing it pretty much right in terms of generally not appearing too critical.

But he is not credible but for me that reflects a wider problem for Labour as a whole. Since 2015 they have lost Scotland and now have lost a huge swathe of seats in their traditional heartlands.

Brexit has potentially destroyed them as a functioning party with Starmer and his disastrous charge for a second referendum at the very heart of that. Even since 2016 the vast majority of the activists on the left have been slagging off the very people they need to vote for them. They simply do not have the collective intellectual bandwidth to comprehend how out of touch they are.

Ever since the 2015 election Labour have been on their knees with only the Corbyn led 2017 surge by way of halting that. Brexit, European Elections, local elections and then the 2019 GE have been disaster after disaster.

What can Labour offer anybody now? Its membership and activist base are fundamentally lunatics with all this trans BS and desire for open borders (lets not forget that Labours official policy in 2019 was not only to protect freedom of movement but widen it).

They are utterly f***ed. And with boundary changes due to come into effect before 2024, then it moves into the realms of asking what is the point of them anymore?

And outside of Starmer who is there? Andy Burnham is the only possible leader I can see having even a chance of turning the tide and he is not even in the PLP. Labour will not achieve a working majority in this decade and if they don't watch it, they might even cease to exist.

Identity Dogma has destroyed them and yet still they cheer it on.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

The Left are trapped in a purity spiral and they love it. I genuinely believe that many of them are happier not being in Government but believing themselves to hold the moral high-ground. Losing elections is always the fault of the electorate rather than them.

You just have to see their reaction to a statement such as 'British jobs for British workers'. They simply cannot bring themselves to even say it, let alone promote such a notion.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

It was pretty much a staple of old Labour for decades. And yes, Brown did attempt to resurrect it but I believe, and am happy to be corrected on this, it soon faded although I believe even Cameron jumped on the bandwagon, slating him for using it which tells you a lot about modern Conservatism.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

With Starmer backed by shadow chancellor,that dreary, dreadful,dopey Annelise Dodds,should keep Boris in charge for many,many years.

Edited by Jacey (20 Apr 2021 10.14am)

Add in the Shadow Foreign Secretary, Nandy Pandy and the anti semites still hanging around like Burgon and Long-Bailey and they are fooked. Most constituencies still with a Labour MP would vote in a dog turd if you put a red rosette on it.........come to think of it

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Dan Jarvis? I'd vote for him and I never vote Labour.

BTW, the pub landlord was of the Raven. Lovely boozer. Sadly, suspect he is a Corbynista.

Last election proved otherwise

I agree the voting polarisation of the country into urban and rural is clear.

That does not explain the Red Wall collapse which was issue driven not historical voting pattern.

The argument would be Labour can no longer expect " the workers " to blindly vote for a party which does not reflect their values and aspirations.

"Traditional " Labour were not interested in a Corbyn led government that ignored their desire for Brexit and basically disrespected them as stupid racists, and seem equally unimpressed by Starmer so far.

All of this is subjective as these opinions are all subjective.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Agree, and I hope they continue on the same self destructive path.

Starmer going to Bath of all places was a good example of his out of touchness ( is that a word )

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

That's true. Bath swerves from Tory to Lib Dem every election. Labour who? Fight the battles you can win mate.