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Taking the knee (LOCKED)

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 07 Dec 20 1.06pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not aware of anyone who feels that those who disagree with "taking a knee" are necessarily racist as it depends on why they object.

What's questioned is the attempted association with a political movement and the condemnation of that when no such association exists, along with the disrespect shown to the players themselves by booing a sincere gesture. If fans think the gesture has outrun its course there are better ways to communicate that as booing just leaves the impression of racist motivation.

Can you please advise what the better ways are as to how fans can communicate this?
I think you need to educate a lot of journalists/ sportspeople who believe it is associated with a political motivated organisation

 

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Teddy Eagle Flag 07 Dec 20 1.28pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am glad you agree.

Yes, I agree that some skinheads are racists in the same way that so are some accountants, dentists, salesmen and footballers.

 

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ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 07 Dec 20 1.32pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The reason they "took the knee" was solely to demonstrate solidarity with the movement started in the USA which had become a universally recognised symbol. As the Premiership gets shown all over the world the players weren't aiming their gesture at a small bunch of supporters on a South London web forum but a huge worldwide audience, including many in the USA, Africa and Asia.

We might well recognise something else better and have more sympathy with it, but would it have the same impact?

Yes, I don't disagree. My point is that taking the knee is, quite clearly, not having the desired effect anymore. I suppose it was all impactful and meaningful in the first place - but is now rejected, in my opinion, by the majority - perhaps of society, but certainly of football fans.
Of course, I'm not saying some don't support it - they clearly do. I'm also not making any value judgement on anyone who does it or anyone who supports it.Although, personally, I don't agree with it.
My point is replace it with something that doesn't divide. I just gave an option to have something higher key than 'kick it out' but certainly less political than BLM. That way racism will get tackled and highlighted. Unfortunately, the current kneeling at football is now proving divisive. When it started, friends sent me pictures kneeling in their club colours. I 'liked' their pictures but never did it myself. Now, no one is sending those pictures. People feel the point is made. We are reaching the point where the question is 'how much longer?'.
Of course, Sky can give me a twee answer of 'when systematic racism ends' or some such other trite comment. The actual answer is end it now or face the consequences that come with unpopularity. Further divides and a likely exacerbation of racism, due to disillusionment with players and the authorities. Look at the Millwall player Romeo - he's now pissed off with his own fans. I know they're Millwall knuckle dragging fools, but still, it isn't necessary.
Nobody will mind lifetime bans for real racism, instead of pantomime signalling by taking a knee. Nobody will boo actually dealing with racism in a straightforward, common sense manner. Let's get real with this for a change.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 07 Dec 20 1.35pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not aware of anyone who feels that those who disagree with "taking a knee" are necessarily racist as it depends on why they object.

What's questioned is the attempted association with a political movement and the condemnation of that when no such association exists, along with the disrespect shown to the players themselves by booing a sincere gesture. If fans think the gesture has outrun its course there are better ways to communicate that as booing just leaves the impression of racist motivation.

If you think the country, once it gets its voice back, is going to stand/sit by and watch and accept a gesture that was used to its advantage for subjugation in getting the police to kneel as they vandalise the capital and respected and proud British figures and memorials, then you’ve not only confirmed how far removed from the common man you are but why you’re on here doing your research to find out by how much.

People have not been and won’t be listened to on this so we end up going about it this way, just as the USA ended up with a person who not many would want as a personal friend in Donald Trump. The objection to this kneeling has been known for ages and the press knew this was coming and why Adrian Durham went to a 14th place C’s 23rd place match in the championship. They also fail to acknowledge it went on at a handful of other matches.

A zero tolerance message I’d be in agreement with, but we had ‘kick it out’ working apart from a few matches where some drunk morons go mental by the side of a goal.

 


COYP

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 07 Dec 20 1.35pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Yes, I don't disagree. My point is that taking the knee is, quite clearly, not having the desired effect anymore. I suppose it was all impactful and meaningful in the first place - but is now rejected, in my opinion, by the majority - perhaps of society, but certainly of football fans.
Of course, I'm not saying some don't support it - they clearly do. I'm also not making any value judgement on anyone who does it or anyone who supports it.Although, personally, I don't agree with it.
My point is replace it with something that doesn't divide. I just gave an option to have something higher key than 'kick it out' but certainly less political than BLM. That way racism will get tackled and highlighted. Unfortunately, the current kneeling at football is now proving divisive. When it started, friends sent me pictures kneeling in their club colours. I 'liked' their pictures but never did it myself. Now, no one is sending those pictures. People feel the point is made. We are reaching the point where the question is 'how much longer?'.
Of course, Sky can give me a twee answer of 'when systematic racism ends' or some such other trite comment. The actual answer is end it now or face the consequences that come with unpopularity. Further divides and a likely exacerbation of racism, due to disillusionment with players and the authorities. Look at the Millwall player Romeo - he's now pissed off with his own fans. I know they're Millwall knuckle dragging fools, but still, it isn't necessary.
Nobody will mind lifetime bans for real racism, instead of pantomime signalling by taking a knee. Nobody will boo actually dealing with racism in a straightforward, common sense manner. Let's get real with this for a change.

Agreed

 

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m/k mick Flag milton keynes 07 Dec 20 1.46pm Send a Private Message to m/k mick Add m/k mick as a friend

Whilst there may still be racism, taking the knee is now having a detrimental effect, we stopped clapping the NHS, the point had been made, now lets stop this ridiculous taking of the knee, it is polarising opinions, and doing damage

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 07 Dec 20 1.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Why not have a different stance for various causes?

Clasped hands for the NHS?
Outstretched arms to highlight and promote anti-teenagers constantly killing eachother?
A hand over the face to highlight and promote anti-gang culture?
A wagging finger to highlight and promote anti-drug problems?
Cupping their goolies to highlight and be anti-young men growing up with absent non-interested fathers?


And why not do it several times throughout the match, why just at kick off? Let's see footballers constantly making social and political gestures instead of playing football!

I agree with you and the others making this point.

These 'gestures' seem more for the individual and their quest to signal how virtuous they think they are than to serve a practice purpose.

Everywhere you poxy turn it's 'racism' this and 'rainbow' that.

There are numerous causes that different people feel different strengths for....I pointed to them in an earlier post. We could fill an entire half making gestures for them.

However, the reason this one takes centre stage is all about money....as in these are the causes the corporates and monied elites feel most strongly about.

There is no evidence that the reason the guy died had anything to do with racism anyway.....but it doesn't stop them because it's all about them and their causes.

Most people go to football matches to watch football not listen to what the monied think is important socially.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2020 1.56pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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JRW2 Flag Dulwich 07 Dec 20 2.09pm Send a Private Message to JRW2 Add JRW2 as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Yes, I don't disagree. My point is that taking the knee is, quite clearly, not having the desired effect anymore. I suppose it was all impactful and meaningful in the first place - but is now rejected, in my opinion, by the majority - perhaps of society, but certainly of football fans.
Of course, I'm not saying some don't support it - they clearly do. I'm also not making any value judgement on anyone who does it or anyone who supports it.Although, personally, I don't agree with it.
My point is replace it with something that doesn't divide. I just gave an option to have something higher key than 'kick it out' but certainly less political than BLM. That way racism will get tackled and highlighted. Unfortunately, the current kneeling at football is now proving divisive. When it started, friends sent me pictures kneeling in their club colours. I 'liked' their pictures but never did it myself. Now, no one is sending those pictures. People feel the point is made. We are reaching the point where the question is 'how much longer?'.
Of course, Sky can give me a twee answer of 'when systematic racism ends' or some such other trite comment. The actual answer is end it now or face the consequences that come with unpopularity. Further divides and a likely exacerbation of racism, due to disillusionment with players and the authorities. Look at the Millwall player Romeo - he's now pissed off with his own fans. I know they're Millwall knuckle dragging fools, but still, it isn't necessary.
Nobody will mind lifetime bans for real racism, instead of pantomime signalling by taking a knee. Nobody will boo actually dealing with racism in a straightforward, common sense manner. Let's get real with this for a change.

Excellent post.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Dec 20 2.39pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

The whole concept was doomed to failure in the first place.
The causes of racism can be, unfamiliarity, suspicion, fear, ignorance, tribalism, jealousy, social pressure, financial pressure, disproportionate anti social behaviour, disproportionate opportunities, historical resentments, plain irrational hatred and some others I can't be bothered to think of.

Any campaign or expression to counter these inevitable human conditions will fail because it is like Canute trying to turn back the tide in the widely misunderstood fable.

No one wants 'racism', but at the same time, we cannot deny its many causes or the fact that they are inextricably linked to the human condition and the circumstances we find ourselves in. It cannot be prayed away in some quasi religious fashion.

 

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m/k mick Flag milton keynes 07 Dec 20 3.24pm Send a Private Message to m/k mick Add m/k mick as a friend

Suggestion, why dont fans just do a slow handclap, less confrontational but shows we are now bored with this nonsense

 

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DanH Flag SW2 07 Dec 20 3.30pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

If you're all bored of it imagine how tiresome it must be being on the receiving end of racist abuse on a regular basis.

 

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 07 Dec 20 3.46pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

If you're all bored of it imagine how tiresome it must be being on the receiving end of racist abuse on a regular basis.


Are you being intentionally antagonistic?

 

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