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General Election 2017
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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 12 Jun 17 1.48pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
So is brexit and the tories with it hopefully..... Brexit is in both the Tory and Labour manifesto and Labour can't nationalise industries whilst inside the EU. Brexit and pre UKIP voters voted tory and Labour. It isn't dead but will probably be watered down and pointless bothering in the end. Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Jun 2017 1.50pm)
COYP |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 1.51pm |
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Originally posted by crystal balls
The majority who voted in the referendum voted to leave the EU; it cannot be said that the majority voted for a hard exit because there was no mention of a type of exit on the ballot paper, hard or otherwise. You may want a hard exit, doesn't follow that all other exit-ers agree. It cannot be said they didn't either. What is more certain is that many voted Brexit to reduce immigration and that almost certainly can't happen without leaving the single market.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 1.53pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Only a lemming would go for Hard Brexit. I think you will find you are in the minority. I think you will find that on immigration, I'm not. The lemming jumping off a cliff thing is not true BTW.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 12 Jun 17 2.08pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Brexit is in both the Tory and Labour manifesto and Labour can't nationalise industries whilst inside the EU. Brexit and pre UKIP voters voted tory and Labour. It isn't dead but will probably be watered down and pointless bothering in the end. Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Jun 2017 1.50pm) Corbyn spent all his political life campaigning to leave the EU, as he took the Bennite line that it was just a capitalist club (a view I would agree with). It was only when he became leader of the Labour party that he had the apparent 'road to Damasucs' conversion to Remain.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Jun 17 2.21pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
They would of course still be in Parliament until the next election and able to vote with their party on other policy. It depends if they put the good of the country above their political future. In the current climate, it would only require a dozen to switch. Surely if the constituents wanted a UKIP MP, they'd have voted for UKIP. MPs who jump parties betray the electorate who voted for them, and doing so should trigger a by-election.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Jun 17 2.25pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
If you mean Britain, most people still want the proper Brexit they voted for. It's time for pro Hard Brexit MP's to stand up and be counted either from within the Tory Party or without. On what basis is that claim made though. UKIP were destroyed at the election, and even in the referendum the decision was whether to leave the EU or not. There was no consensus of how that should be achieved or entail (that's largely what this election was about). You seem to be thinking that the referendum was about something other than leaving the EU. It wasn't, UKIPs views took a total hammering, because the only issue people supported them on was the EU.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Jun 17 2.28pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It cannot be said they didn't either. What is more certain is that many voted Brexit to reduce immigration and that almost certainly can't happen without leaving the single market. In which case the assumption should be based on the evidence available, which is that 51.9% of the population support some kind of exit from the EU.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 2.28pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Surely if the constituents wanted a UKIP MP, they'd have voted for UKIP. MPs who jump parties betray the electorate who voted for them, and doing so should trigger a by-election. I agree, but it currently doesn't. MP's are in danger of betraying those who voted for a meaningful Brexit.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Jun 17 2.31pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I agree, but it currently doesn't. MP's are in danger of betraying those who voted for a meaningful Brexit. Only if the Conservatives form a government. They're the only people who really can form a majority. But if they back down on freedom of movement, then they'll be slaughtered at the next election.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 2.37pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
On what basis is that claim made though. UKIP were destroyed at the election, and even in the referendum the decision was whether to leave the EU or not. There was no consensus of how that should be achieved or entail (that's largely what this election was about). You seem to be thinking that the referendum was about something other than leaving the EU. It wasn't, UKIPs views took a total hammering, because the only issue people supported them on was the EU. UKIP failed at this election for a number of reasons. A primary one was that people foolishly believe that the Brexit question had been settled and that only the details of our departure remained undecided. For that reason they appeared to be irrelevant in this election. If Brexiters come to realise that Remainer MP's are trying to circumvent democracy, then things will change with the right UKIP leadership. Stand by for the return of Nigel Farage. He left the battlefield prematurely it seems.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 2.42pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Only if the Conservatives form a government. They're the only people who really can form a majority. But if they back down on freedom of movement, then they'll be slaughtered at the next election. That is highly probable and what they would deserve.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Jun 17 2.50pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
UKIP failed at this election for a number of reasons. A primary one was that people foolishly believe that the Brexit question had been settled and that only the details of our departure remained undecided. For that reason they appeared to be irrelevant in this election. Maybe that's what they should have focused on rather than trying to jump on the slam Islam bandwagon, with stupid things like the Burka ban. They seem to have been in the process of turning themselves into an anti-immigration party.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 12 Jun 17 3.07pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It cannot be said they didn't either. What is more certain is that many voted Brexit to reduce immigration and that almost certainly can't happen without leaving the single market. I think it would be reasonable to draw the conclusion that a number of those who voted for leave did so,not with a specific type of exit in mind, but as a protest against Cameron/Osborne and their misguided austerity program, or any other particular beef they may have had with the then government. The number of voters who favour a hard exit are extremely unlikely to be in the majority.
I used to be immortal |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 12 Jun 17 3.13pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Maybe that's what they should have focused on rather than trying to jump on the slam Islam bandwagon, with stupid things like the Burka ban. They seem to have been in the process of turning themselves into an anti-immigration party.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 12 Jun 17 3.34pm |
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Who would have thought, only a few days ago, that the Queen's speech would be delayed to suit a band of Irish nut-cases?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 3.39pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Maybe that's what they should have focused on rather than trying to jump on the slam Islam bandwagon, with stupid things like the Burka ban. They seem to have been in the process of turning themselves into an anti-immigration party. I'm not sure they ever wanted to end immigration, just reduce it and banning the Burka, although difficult in practice is correct by western standards of morally. No one should be forced either directly or with indoctrination to cover from head to foot.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Jun 17 3.41pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I'm not sure they ever wanted to end immigration, just reduce it and banning the Burka, although difficult in practice is correct by western standards of morally. No one should be forced either directly or with indoctrination to cover from head to foot.
Nor should they have the choice taken away from them. It's a f***ing headscarf ffs.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jun 17 3.42pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Nor should they have the choice taken away from them. It's a f***ing headscarf ffs. I know you are kidding. Aren't you?
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 12 Jun 17 4.11pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
They would of course still be in Parliament until the next election and able to vote with their party on other policy. It depends if they put the good of the country above their political future. In the current climate, it would only require a dozen to switch. Yes small numbers will make a big difference in current parliament. Issue perhaps is that the current parliament may be very short! In which case most I would imagine will be quite keen to protect their interests. I could imagine that this would be more likely the longer the parliament goes on, but I can't see it happening in the next 12-18 months.
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