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Stirlingsays 07 Aug 17 8.08am | |
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Originally posted by black eagle.
Just watched the Gareth Thomas documentary.very good programme.knowing some gay people as I do I feel all thee abuse has to stop. Martin Luther King once said judge me not by the colour of my skin but by the content of my character. Same thing should apply to gay people judge them not by their sexuality but by the content of their character While King's detailed views on homosexuality aren't known. It is known that he allowed employees to resign if it became known that they were gay. He also advocated for a religion with definite known views on homosexuality that were not welcoming and he never said anything against that. When writing for a magazine where people would ask for advice King dealt with the issue like this: Question: My problem is different from the ones most people have. I am a boy, but I feel about boys the way I ought to feel about girls. I dont want my parents to know about me. What can I do? Is there any place where I can go for help? Answer: Your problem is not at all an uncommon one. However, it does require careful attention. The type of feeling that you have toward boys is probably not an innate tendency, but something that has been culturally acquired. Your reasons for adopting this habit have now been consciously suppressed or unconsciously repressed. Therefore, it is necessary to deal with this problem by getting back to some of the experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. In order to do this I would suggest that you see a good psychiatrist who can assist you in bringing to the forefront of conscience all of those experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. You are already on the right road toward a solution, since you honestly recognize the problem and have a desire to solve it. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 8.19am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 07 Aug 17 9.17am | |
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Originally posted by Aray
Social media is a strange thing. People say things that I doubt they would say in person. I don't think Palace has a larger anti-gay fanbase than any other club. It's a shame we're (and Hol) being portrayed in this way to the wider world. Freedom of speech is very important but that does not equate to there being no impact- on other people's feelings or your reputation. I agree. And if we didn't have Brighton as our rivals, we would not have featured at all on the programme. It's in the nature of football fans to detect an ' achilles heel ' with opposition fans and then play upon it. Not all Spurs fans are Jewish - and yet there were / are anti-semitic chants directed at them....not all Liverpool fans are unemployed but '' we pay your benefits ''....Swansea and Cardiff are ' sheep shaggers ' etc etc I watched the tv programme and I did conclude that homophobic abuse is unacceptable as it offends gay people. And therein lies the problem. Because the homophobic abuse levelled at BHA and their fans isn't actually directed at the gay community as such - it's directed at another set of football fans because we know it winds them up. I've no idea how you solve the problem. I thought Thomas's proposals were somewhat over the top, but I do accept that until there is a deterrent then it will continue unabated. But there has to a Tone From The Top - and it would seem that the EPL and Football League are just hoping this all goes away....
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gmostone 07 Aug 17 9.33am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
While King's detailed views on homosexuality aren't known. It is known that he allowed employees to resign if it became known that they were gay. He also advocated for a religion with definite known views on homosexuality that were not welcoming and he never said anything against that. When writing for a magazine where people would ask for advice King dealt with the issue like this: Question: My problem is different from the ones most people have. I am a boy, but I feel about boys the way I ought to feel about girls. I dont want my parents to know about me. What can I do? Is there any place where I can go for help? Answer: Your problem is not at all an uncommon one. However, it does require careful attention. The type of feeling that you have toward boys is probably not an innate tendency, but something that has been culturally acquired. Your reasons for adopting this habit have now been consciously suppressed or unconsciously repressed. Therefore, it is necessary to deal with this problem by getting back to some of the experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. In order to do this I would suggest that you see a good psychiatrist who can assist you in bringing to the forefront of conscience all of those experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. You are already on the right road toward a solution, since you honestly recognize the problem and have a desire to solve it. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 8.19am)
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Aug 17 10.19am | |
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Originally posted by NEILLO
I agree. And if we didn't have Brighton as our rivals, we would not have featured at all on the programme. It's in the nature of football fans to detect an ' achilles heel ' with opposition fans and then play upon it. Not all Spurs fans are Jewish - and yet there were / are anti-semitic chants directed at them....not all Liverpool fans are unemployed but '' we pay your benefits ''....Swansea and Cardiff are ' sheep shaggers ' etc etc I watched the tv programme and I did conclude that homophobic abuse is unacceptable as it offends gay people. And therein lies the problem. Because the homophobic abuse levelled at BHA and their fans isn't actually directed at the gay community as such - it's directed at another set of football fans because we know it winds them up. I've no idea how you solve the problem. I thought Thomas's proposals were somewhat over the top, but I do accept that until there is a deterrent then it will continue unabated. But there has to a Tone From The Top - and it would seem that the EPL and Football League are just hoping this all goes away.... Yeah but I can see how anyone who isn't a Brighton fan or Palace fan might see that. Obviously Brighton fans will complain about it because its 'getting one up on Palace fans' etc. But from a neutral perspective, which is very much the premier league basis, it comes across as prejudiced, and homophobic, no matter how we try to dress it up.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Aug 17 10.29am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
If someone isn't breaking the law don't tell them how to behave or think. It doesn't matter if someone is in a minority or in a majority. Nobody is above criticism or below praise. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Aug 2017 12.11am) True, but if your acting like a prick, like with the Eddie Izzard issue, then you also should be prepared for people to stand up to you for doing so. Generally I think, if you must say something stupid, you should at least try to keep your mouth closed whilst doing it. And I think that applies to anyone offering opinions without invitation or context. I don't like to see certain things or hear certain things in society, but they're not illegal, so I'll generally just live and let live - and keep it for the right forum or context. I'd rather we just dropped the chants truth be told. Its clear that its an issue with people who are gay, and that might be as many as 10% of a crowd on match day. I think it'll be a much bigger issue this season if the Palace and Brighton game(s) get televised - and it could result in fines or disciplinary proceedings.
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Malcolm Ali's Son 07 Aug 17 10.49am | |
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Whatever the excuses we make about it being banter, etc. we all know that there is a sizeable minority of our fans who shout and sing homophobic stuff and that is just plain wrong. It reminds me of how sick I felt when monkey noises were made at Vince Hilaire. If you are one of that minority just feckin' grow-up...
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Stirlingsays 07 Aug 17 10.49am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
True, but if your acting like a prick, like with the Eddie Izzard issue, then you also should be prepared for people to stand up to you for doing so. I think that's fine....and as long as it's non violent that's debate and apart of what a healthy society needs to be. Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Generally I think, if you must say something stupid, you should at least try to keep your mouth closed whilst doing it. And I think that applies to anyone offering opinions without invitation or context. Yeah, but, outside of your feedback, what you think about the intelligence of another's viewpoint is really not here or there is it. That's the point of freedom of speech...within parameters....people have a certain freedom to make it. Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I don't like to see certain things or hear certain things in society, but they're not illegal, so I'll generally just live and let live - and keep it for the right forum or context. I kind of agree....I come up against opinions I don't agree with or like all the time. But I believe passionately in the marketplace of ideas....So outside of libel, violence or limited obscenity I defend their right to have those views....that marketplace of ideas isn't perfect but it's far better than the alternative. Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think it'll be a much bigger issue this season if the Palace and Brighton game(s) get televised - and it could result in fines or disciplinary proceedings. Just like all aspects of human nature I don't like what I hear from a crowd from time to time....I think some shouted comments are offensive, some chants are stupid and songs are immature nonsense.....that said, I find the suggestions that the crowd should be 'educated' or 'censored' because so called betters don't like the holistic nature of human nature within crowds....I find that much more scary.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 07 Aug 17 12.16pm | |
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blatantly fair documentary making good points. there are gay players out there -- of course there are -- and for whatever reason they aren't coming out. some of the comments on the thread were indeed pathetic and did underscore the self-reinforcing culture of homophobia in the game.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Aug 17 12.51pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I'd rather we just dropped the chants truth be told. Its clear that its an issue with people who are gay, and that might be as many as 10% of a crowd on match day. I doubt there's ever 10% of a football crowd being gay. Maybe San Francisco or New York but even there they'll probably be visiting art venues. Sounds better than the opening day game last season and others.
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Aug 17 12.58pm | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I doubt there's ever 10% of a football crowd being gay. Maybe San Francisco or New York but even there they'll probably be visiting art venues. Sounds better than the opening day game last season and others. ?
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Aug 17 12.59pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
? ? x 2.
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Stirlingsays 07 Aug 17 1.09pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
? It's called a joke Nick. I know that apparently jokes aren't allowed....in the world of 'some groups are more equal than others'.
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