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"The Trouble With Socialism ..... Other people's m

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Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 6.03pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

"A little bit".

Well, there you have it, watch a little bit and then call it out as "Usual Wisbeachean double-talk".

Ok, did you get as far as the evidential figures? Point out exactly what you mean by "Double-talk" Now, point out exactly where, on the link, that I'll find it. Examples, please.

Waiting for you to answer my queries, my man.

Specifically, what do you mean by 'double talk'?
Exactly where, on the link, that I'll find it. Examples, please.

 

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Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 6.56pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the USA has the right idea. Hence it is wealthy. Productive people prosper, and those who are unproductive are less of a burden to you.


in Europe we have extended families of uncles, cousins, grand-parents...across 3 , 4, or even 5 generations who all have never had an official job, who all do not work. Who all scrounge off the State. And who frequently claim benefits while working in the black-economy. Some Northern towns, in England, contain little else. People who also hold very little allegiance to the State that feeds them.

Show me a good country with a generous Welfare State ? cos it doesnt exist.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (11 Sep 2023 4.06pm)

This is interesting.

Name the northern towns you're referring to. And when you say "little else" what do you mean, exactly?

 

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PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 11 Sep 23 7.50pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1


Name the northern towns you're referring to. And when you say "little else" what do you mean, exactly?

while you are evidently looking for a rise, i will not be baited.

Simply google the towns with the highest rates of unemployment. And now do try to tell me its all just bad luck. And nothing to do with the lifestyles & behaviours of ALL their occupants.

Getting back to the OP, Socialism's catalogue of failures.....across dozens of countries are always excused by lefties as...."ah yes, but that was not true socialism". As lame an excuse as there ever was.

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 8.07pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

while you are evidently looking for a rise, i will not be baited.

Simply google the towns with the highest rates of unemployment. And now do try to tell me its all just bad luck. And nothing to do with the lifestyles & behaviours of ALL their occupants.

Getting back to the OP, Socialism's catalogue of failures.....across dozens of countries are always excused by lefties as...."ah yes, but that was not true socialism". As lame an excuse as there ever was.


No, absolutely not looking for 'a rise' at all but am keen to get down to specifics, without which our opinions are nothing but air, don't you think?

I highlight what I'm talking about. Am I right in understanding that you're saying that, in northern towns that have the highest rate of unemployed, all those without a job and claiming benefits are feckless layabouts, sponging off the state while working cash-in-hand in the black economy? Have I got that right? Or am I mistaken?

Secondly, getting back to my original post, have you watched the link and do you agree that it busts the myth of that popular Tory supporter adage?


Edited by Glazier#1 (11 Sep 2023 8.12pm)

 

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Matov Flag 11 Sep 23 8.32pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

The issue is not necessarily the wisdom of tax (I am moving from a uber-libertarian position of all tax being theft to one that actually thinks a higher level of corporation tax might actually make sense because it leads to business investing more in research, equipment and so on by way of trying to keep profits down) but just the sheer and unrelenting incompetence of the people we have running things.

You could throw double the money at so so much and get neglible improvement in return (the NHS is a great example).

Putting money into big public infrastructure can have a benefit but only if that money is ring-fenced for British companies otherwise profits simply trickle abroad. But services and utilities.

We need a serious rethink of how we run the UK on any and every level of public service because something is clearly very wrong and just throwing money, or alternately cutting spending, is simply not going to work.

And framing things within the conventional Left/Right dichotomy helps nothing whatsoever.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 11 Sep 23 8.40pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

Waiting for you to answer my queries, my man.

Specifically, what do you mean by 'double talk'?
Exactly where, on the link, that I'll find it. Examples, please.

I answered this at 4.02 and I'm not your man.

Wisbechean double-talk is when he criticises whoever he disproves of for saying or doing certain things, while arguing for and praising those he supports when they say or do the same sorts of things. The guy in the video was just spouting the usual 'wicked Tories' crap.

 

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Teddy Eagle Flag 11 Sep 23 9.26pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1


So, again, are you advocating no welfare state?

That's quite a leap of logic. Are you advocating no immigration?

 

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Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 9.58pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

That's quite a leap of logic. Are you advocating no immigration?

How so?

 

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Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 10.08pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

I think I have the right to watch as much or as little as I like, after all, we don't live in a communist dictatorship - yet.

Government spending in general is usually wasteful and state activities, much of them unnecessary, are generally inefficient and badly run. This is true of whichever party is in power.

The best we can hope for is that they spend money on things we really need, like defence, law and order, public services and social welfare, but don't expect efficiency sensible financing in those areas either.

Sorry I missed this, Mr Norman. What a curious response, though. 'Have the right'?

Of course I'm not trying to force you to watch anything except to write that if you are discussing my original link, it might help (and you may wish) to appreciate the presenter's viewpoint.

I mean, I started the post with a proposition. The link, all of it, is what the proposition is based on. Otherwise, how are we able to discuss it, for goodness sake?

 

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Teddy Eagle Flag 11 Sep 23 10.12pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

How so?

To go from one point to the conclusion that the entire welfare state should be scrapped?

 

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Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 10.17pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

I answered this at 4.02 **and I'm not your man.**

Wisbechean double-talk is when he criticises whoever he disproves of for saying or doing certain things, while arguing for and praising those he supports when they say or do the same sorts of things. The guy in the video was just spouting the usual 'wicked Tories' crap.

** That looks like you're angry with me. ** I didn't mean to offend, Mr Norman.

I posted the video in order to discuss whether that age old saying about the left spending other's money was valid.

At least we are shown his opinion, supported by evidence, that the old saying appears not only to be false but, in fact, the opposite applies.

If you call that 'crap', it's up to you, of course but I should add that merely throwing insults at something/someone doesn't make them wrong.

 

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Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 10.20pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

To go from one point to the conclusion that the entire welfare state should be scrapped?

Well, I was hoping to draw out a response where we might be a little more nuanced about the subject. The question was rhetorical, really.

Since the days of the workhouse there's been a tension between aid for the needy and accusations of feckless laziness.

Anyway, I wasn't really wanting the thread to veer off the original point about that old, famous saying.

Trouble is, no-one's actually written what they think about how the video refutes the 'truism'.

The video seems to show that all these years that old truism about the Labour party being the party of tax, tax, tax is not a fair conclusion. Not only do the Tories tax more, they spend less at the same time. Blimey!

Edited by Glazier#1 (11 Sep 2023 10.27pm)

 

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