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"The Trouble With Socialism ..... Other people's m

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 11 Sep 23 10.34pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

Well, I was hoping to draw out a response where we might be a little more nuanced about the subject. The question was rhetorical, really.

Since the days of the workhouse there's been a tension between aid for the needy and accusations of feckless laziness.

Fair enough. For me the main problem was the failure to build more council accommodation which has contributed to the housing shortage but selling them was the only way thousands of families were ever going to own their own property.

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 10.34pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

That's quite a leap of logic. Are you advocating no immigration?

What are you talking about?! What has that to do with this thread?
Or is that just to illustrate your point about jumping to conclusions? If so, stretching it a little, eh?

For goodness sake. We start discussing immigration, it'll never end, Ted. Haha

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 10.43pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Fair enough. For me the main problem was the failure to build more council accommodation which has contributed to the housing shortage but selling them was the only way thousands of families were ever going to own their own property.

True, Ted, but there is another, crucial 'but'.

But the Tories took all the money they got from council house sales and put not a penny of it into building new ones. Why? Because they knew that many of the less well-off workers lived in council houses.

It was part of the plan to emasculate the unions: if strikers were council renters, they could strike and get behind on the rent without being evicted. If they had mortgages, their house would be repossessed. So,- get rid of council houses, make this country a 'property owning democracy' and cut the workers' ability to strike. Neat. Until we look at the property market today. Ray! Another of Maggie's crowning achievements is shown to be just wrong.

Sorry, is this me talking the usual Wicked -Tory leftish crap?

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 11 Sep 23 11.16pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

What are you talking about?! What has that to do with this thread?
Or is that just to illustrate your point about jumping to conclusions? If so, stretching it a little, eh?

For goodness sake. We start discussing immigration, it'll never end, Ted. Haha

Yes, just illustrative.

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 11.17pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Phew! Lol

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 11 Sep 23 11.25pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

True, Ted, but there is another, crucial 'but'.

But the Tories took all the money they got from council house sales and put not a penny of it into building new ones. Why? Because they knew that many of the less well-off workers lived in council houses.

It was part of the plan to emasculate the unions: if strikers were council renters, they could strike and get behind on the rent without being evicted. If they had mortgages, their house would be repossessed. So,- get rid of council houses, make this country a 'property owning democracy' and cut the workers' ability to strike. Neat. Until we look at the property market today. Ray! Another of Maggie's crowning achievements is shown to be just wrong.

Sorry, is this me talking the usual Wicked -Tory leftish crap?

Seems a convoluted solution.

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 11.35pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Seems a convoluted solution.

Haha, I know what you mean.

Not a solution in itself but part of a design to change the way the country was run and to change people's attitudes. "No such thing as society" is another famous catchphrase that encapsulates the idea that the state shouldn't provide everything and we should be more self-reliant, doesn't it?

So selling off council houses adhered to that philosophy too, crucially. It also offered, at the same stroke, a chance to help castrate the unions. Nice and tidy.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 11 Sep 23 11.47pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

Well, I was hoping to draw out a response where we might be a little more nuanced about the subject. The question was rhetorical, really.

Since the days of the workhouse there's been a tension between aid for the needy and accusations of feckless laziness.

Anyway, I wasn't really wanting the thread to veer off the original point about that old, famous saying.

Trouble is, no-one's actually written what they think about how the video refutes the 'truism'.

The video seems to show that all these years that old truism about the Labour party being the party of tax, tax, tax is not a fair conclusion. Not only do the Tories tax more, they spend less at the same time. Blimey!

Edited by Glazier#1 (11 Sep 2023 10.27pm)

There is a difference between need and want. Got no problem with those that need help getting that help. Got a massive issue with those who want and know how to get what they want. Ironically itís the wants who help reduce what the needs get. Unfortunately any changes to try to get the wants out of the system will inadvertently capture a small amount of the needs. Then the media and other t***s get involved so the issue will never be solved as the change is reversed because innocents are caught up in the net. I donít claim any, not that I might need to one day so not sure how welfare rolls tbh. Also it was a safety net; now itís a way of life for maybe millions.

 

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View Glazier#1's Profile Glazier#1 Flag 11 Sep 23 11.57pm Send a Private Message to Glazier#1 Add Glazier#1 as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

There is a difference between need and want. Got no problem with those that need help getting that help. Got a massive issue with those who want and know how to get what they want. Ironically itís the wants who help reduce what the needs get. Unfortunately any changes to try to get the wants out of the system will inadvertently capture a small amount of the needs. Then the media and other t***s get involved so the issue will never be solved as the change is reversed because innocents are caught up in the net. I donít claim any, not that I might need to one day so not sure how welfare rolls tbh. Also it was a safety net; now itís a way of life for maybe millions.

Yes, I know what you mean and the balance is difficult to manage effectively.

The answer will come when we learn to balance need and incentive.

Anyway, did you watch the link? I thought I'd put it up to get some rock-hard responses to the point being made in the vid. So far, I have to say, I've had no joy. An enjoyable ride but not really what I had hoped for.

Thanks for the response: a good read.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 12 Sep 23 12.31am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

Haha, I know what you mean.

Not a solution in itself but part of a design to change the way the country was run and to change people's attitudes. "No such thing as society" is another famous catchphrase that encapsulates the idea that the state shouldn't provide everything and we should be more self-reliant, doesn't it?

So selling off council houses adhered to that philosophy too, crucially. It also offered, at the same stroke, a chance to help castrate the unions. Nice and tidy.

You could be right but our governments have generally been more likely to **** up a two car funeral than see such a Machiavellian plan through to successful completion.

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 12 Sep 23 6.56am Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

What?!

Well, I never.

Perhaps we should float them all on a barge off the Dorset coast?

good idea !

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Online Flag 12 Sep 23 7.27am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Glazier#1

** That looks like you're angry with me. ** I didn't mean to offend, Mr Norman.

I posted the video in order to discuss whether that age old saying about the left spending other's money was valid.

At least we are shown his opinion, supported by evidence, that the old saying appears not only to be false but, in fact, the opposite applies.

If you call that 'crap', it's up to you, of course but I should add that merely throwing insults at something/someone doesn't make them wrong.

I'm not angry with you or offended, Mr Glazier. It's like when Jehovah's Witnesses present their solutions, you just wonder how people can be so deluded.

Edited by georgenorman (12 Sep 2023 7.33am)

 

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