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The Election Thread

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Badger11 Beckenham 10 Nov 19 9.16am
Originally posted by chris123 Be interesting to see how Cornwall goes, always used to be Liberal or Tory - and was certainly leave. And speaking of WE a story in the Mail he might be interested in about George Soros funding and interfering in the Brexit campaign. Of course it couldn't possibly be true because it's the Mail, still you never know... [Link] One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 10 Nov 19 9.16am

Originally posted by chris123

Be interesting to see how Cornwall goes, always used to be Liberal or Tory - and was certainly leave.

And speaking of WE a story in the Mail he might be interested in about George Soros funding and interfering in the Brexit campaign.

Of course it couldn't possibly be true because it's the Mail, still you never know...

[Link]

One more point

Invalid user 2019 10 Nov 19 9.20am
Originally posted by sickboy If this really is "the brexit election" and it is the main factor in how people vote, it will be interesting to see how close the end result is to how constituencies voted in the referendum. Leave 406 Remain 242. Good point. It will certainly be interesting to pick apart the results after the election. There are enough dynamics at play to create a lot of unknowns at present.

Invalid user 2019

10 Nov 19 9.20am

Originally posted by sickboy

If this really is "the brexit election" and it is the main factor in how people vote, it will be interesting to see how close the end result is to how constituencies voted in the referendum.
Leave 406
Remain 242.

Good point. It will certainly be interesting to pick apart the results after the election. There are enough dynamics at play to create a lot of unknowns at present.

steeleye20 Croydon 10 Nov 19 9.38am
The scandal over Boris Johnson’s friendship with technology entrepreneur Jennifer Arcuri was reignited on Saturday after the Observer revealed that the independent police watchdog has delayed its announcement on whether the PM should face an investigation into possible criminal misconduct until after the election. The decision prompted fury from Westminster politicians and London assembly members who said it appeared that a ruling had been “suppressed” in order to protect Johnson from potentially damaging headlines at a crucial stage of the election campaign. I didn't attach much to this until I thought, hang on, what has the political situation got to do with the police?

steeleye20

Croydon 10 Nov 19 9.38am

The scandal over Boris Johnson’s friendship with technology entrepreneur Jennifer Arcuri was reignited on Saturday after the Observer revealed that the independent police watchdog has delayed its announcement on whether the PM should face an investigation into possible criminal misconduct until after the election.

The decision prompted fury from Westminster politicians and London assembly members who said it appeared that a ruling had been “suppressed” in order to protect Johnson from potentially damaging headlines at a crucial stage of the election campaign.

I didn't attach much to this until I thought, hang on, what has the political situation got to do with the police?

Badger11 Beckenham 10 Nov 19 9.44am
Originally posted by steeleye20 The scandal over Boris Johnson’s friendship with technology entrepreneur Jennifer Arcuri was reignited on Saturday after the Observer revealed that the independent police watchdog has delayed its announcement on whether the PM should face an investigation into possible criminal misconduct until after the election. The decision prompted fury from Westminster politicians and London assembly members who said it appeared that a ruling had been “suppressed” in order to protect Johnson from potentially damaging headlines at a crucial stage of the election campaign. I didn't attach much to this until I thought, hang on, what has the political situation got to do with the police? Steeleye you forgot to add this sentence from the cut and paste "But, in a statement, the Independent Office for Police Conduct denies it has delayed any announcement. " One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 10 Nov 19 9.44am

Originally posted by steeleye20

I didn't attach much to this until I thought, hang on, what has the political situation got to do with the police?

Steeleye you forgot to add this sentence from the cut and paste

"But, in a statement, the Independent Office for Police Conduct denies it has delayed any announcement. "

One more point

chris123 hove actually 10 Nov 19 10.00am
Originally posted by Jway89 Sorry,forgot to add; No, it doesn't matter. What matters is your ability to pay it. Depends on the creditor - you don't want to default on the IMF.

chris123

hove actually 10 Nov 19 10.00am

Originally posted by Jway89

Sorry,forgot to add; No, it doesn't matter. What matters is your ability to pay it.

Depends on the creditor - you don't want to default on the IMF.

steeleye20 Croydon 10 Nov 19 10.04am
Originally posted by Badger11 Steeleye you forgot to add this sentence from the cut and paste "But, in a statement, the Independent Office for Police Conduct denies it has delayed any announcement. " Makes no difference, it is political, is it not, who are they, what are they and why? 'Independent' office for police conduct? Establishment non-appointed bum-lickers more likely, that fits the police too in my opinion, worse than the Queen. Whether the PM has committed an offence for not is all that matters for a prosecution, just like anybody. It shouldn't be involved at all.

steeleye20

Croydon 10 Nov 19 10.04am

Originally posted by Badger11

Steeleye you forgot to add this sentence from the cut and paste

"But, in a statement, the Independent Office for Police Conduct denies it has delayed any announcement. "

Makes no difference, it is political, is it not, who are they, what are they and why?

'Independent' office for police conduct?

Establishment non-appointed bum-lickers more likely, that fits the police too in my opinion, worse than the Queen.

Whether the PM has committed an offence for not is all that matters for a prosecution, just like anybody.

It shouldn't be involved at all.

chris123 hove actually 10 Nov 19 10.05am
Originally posted by Jway89 Bonds from countries that can print their own money will always be bought, almost independent of the interest, because they are seen as a store of value that will be paid back definitely. One of the problems is governments buying up bonds issued by their own central banks, you've got concentration risk and little liquidity.

chris123

hove actually 10 Nov 19 10.05am

Originally posted by Jway89

Bonds from countries that can print their own money will always be bought, almost independent of the interest, because they are seen as a store of value that will be paid back definitely.

One of the problems is governments buying up bonds issued by their own central banks, you've got concentration risk and little liquidity.

chris123 hove actually 10 Nov 19 10.18am
Originally posted by Jway89 It really isn't. There's no money for Greece, unless they accept austerity, but amazingly Deutchebank gets billions printed, no questions asked. I don't know what you're going on about - Deutsche Bank is a bank with shareholders - not a country.

chris123

hove actually 10 Nov 19 10.18am

Originally posted by Jway89

It really isn't. There's no money for Greece, unless they accept austerity, but amazingly Deutchebank gets billions printed, no questions asked.

I don't know what you're going on about - Deutsche Bank is a bank with shareholders - not a country.

Badger11 Beckenham 10 Nov 19 10.29am
Originally posted by steeleye20 Makes no difference, it is political, is it not, who are they, what are they and why? 'Independent' office for police conduct? Establishment non-appointed bum-lickers more likely, that fits the police too in my opinion, worse than the Queen. Whether the PM has committed an offence for not is all that matters for a prosecution, just like anybody. It shouldn't be involved at all. I have no idea if Johnson is guilty or if this Independent office is biased and neither have you. I was simply pointing out that you had not included their denial which is germane to the story. It is now up to others to prove that this independent body isn't independent otherwise this is just making allegations which are not backed up by facts. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 10 Nov 19 10.29am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Makes no difference, it is political, is it not, who are they, what are they and why?

'Independent' office for police conduct?

Establishment non-appointed bum-lickers more likely, that fits the police too in my opinion, worse than the Queen.

Whether the PM has committed an offence for not is all that matters for a prosecution, just like anybody.

It shouldn't be involved at all.

I have no idea if Johnson is guilty or if this Independent office is biased and neither have you. I was simply pointing out that you had not included their denial which is germane to the story.

It is now up to others to prove that this independent body isn't independent otherwise this is just making allegations which are not backed up by facts.

One more point

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 10.46am
Originally posted by chris123 I don't know what you're going on about - Deutsche Bank is a bank with shareholders - not a country. If you buy up crap bonds from a country, Greece, to get a 15% return, because, the inherent risk is that it is Greece and then you don't really bail them out, what do you think should've happened to that bank? Should've collapsed, but it didn't. Same for Bank Paribas and so on. So while the bank gets rid of 10000 employees, Greece goes through the largest austerity ever seen. You cant grow if you cut.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 10.46am

Originally posted by chris123

I don't know what you're going on about - Deutsche Bank is a bank with shareholders - not a country.

If you buy up crap bonds from a country, Greece, to get a 15% return, because, the inherent risk is that it is Greece and then you don't really bail them out, what do you think should've happened to that bank? Should've collapsed, but it didn't. Same for Bank Paribas and so on.

So while the bank gets rid of 10000 employees, Greece goes through the largest austerity ever seen. You cant grow if you cut.

chris123 hove actually 10 Nov 19 10.51am
Originally posted by Jway89 If you buy up crap bonds from a country, Greece, to get a 15% return, because, the inherent risk is that it is Greece and then you don't really bail them out, what do you think should've happened to that bank? Should've collapsed, but it didn't. Same for Bank Paribas and so on. So while the bank gets rid of 10000 employees, Greece goes through the largest austerity ever seen. You cant grow if you cut. And the hair cut?

chris123

hove actually 10 Nov 19 10.51am

Originally posted by Jway89

So while the bank gets rid of 10000 employees, Greece goes through the largest austerity ever seen. You cant grow if you cut.

And the hair cut?

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 10.57am
Originally posted by chris123 Depends on the creditor - you don't want to default on the IMF. The IMF? Good luck with that then. No one or country in their right mind is going to 'send in the bailiffs' and even if they do and we decided to pay it, we would print it. 80% odd of trade is done by EU and the US. Let's look at China, what do you think would happen if they decided to cash in rather than buy more bonds? The World economy would collapse, so not just us, they would be obliterated, because who the hell would buy all their stuff? You conflate bank debt with sovereign debt. As a sovereign nation we can pay all debts outstanding, which is why Brexit was much of a nothing. Had we been in the Euro, then that wouldve changed it, but if you think 3 years is too long to get out of the EU, it just wouldnt of happened if we were in the Euro.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 10.57am

Originally posted by chris123

Depends on the creditor - you don't want to default on the IMF.

The IMF? Good luck with that then. No one or country in their right mind is going to 'send in the bailiffs' and even if they do and we decided to pay it, we would print it.

80% odd of trade is done by EU and the US. Let's look at China, what do you think would happen if they decided to cash in rather than buy more bonds? The World economy would collapse, so not just us, they would be obliterated, because who the hell would buy all their stuff?

You conflate bank debt with sovereign debt. As a sovereign nation we can pay all debts outstanding, which is why Brexit was much of a nothing. Had we been in the Euro, then that wouldve changed it, but if you think 3 years is too long to get out of the EU, it just wouldnt of happened if we were in the Euro.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 11.03am
Originally posted by chris123 And the hair cut? Lack of biological understanding here. There has to be a STIMULUS to grow. If you dont produce the various hormones and chemicals the hair will not grow. Same thing with plants, you have to water them and give them some light.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 11.03am

Originally posted by chris123

And the hair cut?

Lack of biological understanding here. There has to be a STIMULUS to grow. If you dont produce the various hormones and chemicals the hair will not grow. Same thing with plants, you have to water them and give them some light.

chris123 hove actually 10 Nov 19 11.08am
Originally posted by Jway89 The IMF? Good luck with that then. No one or country in their right mind is going to 'send in the bailiffs' and even if they do and we decided to pay it, we would print it. 80% odd of trade is done by EU and the US. Let's look at China, what do you think would happen if they decided to cash in rather than buy more bonds? The World economy would collapse, so not just us, they would be obliterated, because who the hell would buy all their stuff? You conflate bank debt with sovereign debt. As a sovereign nation we can pay all debts outstanding, which is why Brexit was much of a nothing. Had we been in the Euro, then that wouldve changed it, but if you think 3 years is too long to get out of the EU, it just wouldnt of happened if we were in the Euro. You mentioned bailiffs not me, I'm interested and have asked some questions. You bought in Deutsche Bank not me. And the IMF is one of Greece's creditors, which is why I mentioned it.

chris123

hove actually 10 Nov 19 11.08am

Originally posted by Jway89

The IMF? Good luck with that then. No one or country in their right mind is going to 'send in the bailiffs' and even if they do and we decided to pay it, we would print it.

You mentioned bailiffs not me, I'm interested and have asked some questions. You bought in Deutsche Bank not me. And the IMF is one of Greece's creditors, which is why I mentioned it.

chris123 hove actually 10 Nov 19 11.10am
Originally posted by Jway89 Lack of biological understanding here. There has to be a STIMULUS to grow. If you dont produce the various hormones and chemicals the hair will not grow. Same thing with plants, you have to water them and give them some light. The Greek hair cut in 2012.

chris123

hove actually 10 Nov 19 11.10am

Originally posted by Jway89

The Greek hair cut in 2012.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 11.24am
Originally posted by chris123 One of the problems is governments buying up bonds issued by their own central banks, you've got concentration risk and little liquidity. It's actually the Central banks that buy up bonds, which is known as QE. But why do they do this? To stimulate. The BoE keeps all this crap on its balance sheet, but, so what. Anyone who tells you that we need to keep the national debt in check, i would ask them the following; 1) how much is a good amount to reduce it to? 2) Who do we owe it to and what would happen if they call it in?

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 11.24am

Originally posted by chris123

One of the problems is governments buying up bonds issued by their own central banks, you've got concentration risk and little liquidity.

It's actually the Central banks that buy up bonds, which is known as QE. But why do they do this? To stimulate. The BoE keeps all this crap on its balance sheet, but, so what.

Anyone who tells you that we need to keep the national debt in check, i would ask them the following;

1) how much is a good amount to reduce it to?
2) Who do we owe it to and what would happen if they call it in?

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 11.30am
Originally posted by chris123 The Greek hair cut in 2012. Exactly. They reduced their gdp by 30% to prove a point, which didnt solve anything. Everything is still the same and its only a matter of time before we have another liquidity crisis, but not because of gvmt spending, but because of gvmts not understanding basic human behaviour and idiotically taking regulations away from institutions that can tank the economy. Once people stop looking at it as a left and right issue and question everything their own parties do without just accepting their crap then we will be a truly sovereign country. My view only.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 11.30am

Originally posted by chris123

The Greek hair cut in 2012.

Exactly. They reduced their gdp by 30% to prove a point, which didnt solve anything. Everything is still the same and its only a matter of time before we have another liquidity crisis, but not because of gvmt spending, but because of gvmts not understanding basic human behaviour and idiotically taking regulations away from institutions that can tank the economy.

Once people stop looking at it as a left and right issue and question everything their own parties do without just accepting their crap then we will be a truly sovereign country. My view only.

W12 10 Nov 19 11.45am
Originally posted by Jway89 It's actually the Central banks that buy up bonds, which is known as QE. But why do they do this? To stimulate. The BoE keeps all this crap on its balance sheet, but, so what. Anyone who tells you that we need to keep the national debt in check, i would ask them the following; 1) how much is a good amount to reduce it to? 2) Who do we owe it to and what would happen if they call it in? 1) zero or preferably a huge negative 2) what would happen if we were unable to borrow any more money?

W12 10 Nov 19 11.45am

Originally posted by Jway89

It's actually the Central banks that buy up bonds, which is known as QE. But why do they do this? To stimulate. The BoE keeps all this crap on its balance sheet, but, so what.

Anyone who tells you that we need to keep the national debt in check, i would ask them the following;

1) how much is a good amount to reduce it to?
2) Who do we owe it to and what would happen if they call it in?

1) zero or preferably a huge negative
2) what would happen if we were unable to borrow any more money?

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 12.04pm
Originally posted by W12 1) zero or preferably a huge negative 2) what would happen if we were unable to borrow any more money? So you want our economy to be more in line with Afghanistan and the Congo? Very low debt levels there. As Ive said a few times. We can print our own money. It is all interelated. The manufacturing countries will always buy our debt because we buy their stuff. The banks buy our bonds because it pays or at least used to pay interest. Im not saying we can now spend all over the place, but this living within our means is great for me and you but the gvnt has to stimulate.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 12.04pm

Originally posted by W12

1) zero or preferably a huge negative
2) what would happen if we were unable to borrow any more money?

So you want our economy to be more in line with Afghanistan and the Congo? Very low debt levels there.

As Ive said a few times. We can print our own money. It is all interelated. The manufacturing countries will always buy our debt because we buy their stuff. The banks buy our bonds because it pays or at least used to pay interest.

Im not saying we can now spend all over the place, but this living within our means is great for me and you but the gvnt has to stimulate.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 1.32pm
Originally posted by chris123 You mentioned bailiffs not me, I'm interested and have asked some questions. You bought in Deutsche Bank not me. And the IMF is one of Greece's creditors, which is why I mentioned it. Just saw. Fair enough. The bailiffs wasnt supposed to a quote just a debt related figure of speech. Greece was just small enough to be made an example of. If theyde had Drachma, and no santions, they wouldnt be in the mess theyre in.

Deleted11 10 Nov 19 1.32pm

Originally posted by chris123

You mentioned bailiffs not me, I'm interested and have asked some questions. You bought in Deutsche Bank not me. And the IMF is one of Greece's creditors, which is why I mentioned it.

Just saw. Fair enough. The bailiffs wasnt supposed to a quote just a debt related figure of speech.

Greece was just small enough to be made an example of. If theyde had Drachma, and no santions, they wouldnt be in the mess theyre in.

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