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 Stirlingsays  05 Nov 19 3.45pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
My brief flirtation with the lib-dems ended with her appointment, and she has been as foolish and headstrong as I feared. Gifted the tories an election when Johnson was fenced in. Ed Davey has solid experience in government would have been a much better choice. The libdems will have considerable support from labour voters sick of brexit, if its like that near polling day what will they do? Labour policy is clear enough to me on brexit but I don't think the voters want more deals and referendums. Corbyn will have to end brexit or lose in my opinion. Is he capable of doing that, if he is to be PM he has to be, you can't govern on socialist principles alone. The problem for Corbyn has been that labour has a number of leave seats, but they do not translate into enough votes, the 48% remain voters could put him into Downing Street, but why at the moment, would they.
Corbyn and the Labour party are fecked. A lot of true remainers are going to vote Lib Dems.....because, well they are full on remain (despite the democratic ethics of that). Only the real Labour vote are going to vote for them and a lot of them are lower or middle class metropolitan types. Corbyn isn't that bothered about winning an election. I mean, of course he wants to but not to the extent that he's going to release his ideological grip. The Marxists were kept on the edges of the Labour party for many decades and the most important aspect for them is in root and branch securing the party. This is what the Labour grass roots voted for twice. And Marxists are no friends of the EU. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Nov 2019 3.47pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Deleted11 05 Nov 19 4.05pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
When it comes to affordable housing the failure of government, going back forty years, is brought into stark relief. In part it reveals on of the main weakness of Democracy....it's encouragement of the short term and disincentive for long term. Kick it down the road, leave it to the next one. It's behind a lot of the societal problems we have. Blair was the worst because he oversaw a massive population increase and did nothing. Make positive noises, but in reality kick the can down the road. Couldn't agree more. Real and dare I say it, progressive, democracy needs a whole lot more than a few talking points from narcissists who were either brought up thinking it's their God given right to be leader of a Country or the altruists, who believe they can cure all society's ills. If it's not capitalism vs marxism, it's private vs public or it's Brexit. Don't get me wrong, these debates should be happening, but with real measurements or how we get results. The problem is that, as a nation, 95% of us will only be knowledgeable about issues, after the fact. So we basically choose to vote the wrong way (Not referring to Brexit here), rather than being told what will be happening.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Nov 19 4.15pm |
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Originally posted by Jway89
Couldn't agree more. Real and dare I say it, progressive, democracy needs a whole lot more than a few talking points from narcissists who were either brought up thinking it's their God given right to be leader of a Country or the altruists, who believe they can cure all society's ills. If it's not capitalism vs marxism, it's private vs public or it's Brexit. Don't get me wrong, these debates should be happening, but with real measurements or how we get results. The problem is that, as a nation, 95% of us will only be knowledgeable about issues, after the fact. So we basically choose to vote the wrong way (Not referring to Brexit here), rather than being told what will be happening. Yep, our politicians allowed the ladder to be pulled up for practically two generations for reasons you touch on accurately. I find it hard to imagine that even one of them will have any difficulty at all in housing or indeed getting by. This legacy stands completely against what our politicians are meant to have done and the directions they should have been moving in. Negligent. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Nov 2019 4.17pm)
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| Deleted11 05 Nov 19 4.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yep, our politicians allowed the ladder to be pulled up for practically two generations for reasons you touch on accurately. I find it hard to imagine that even one of them will have any difficulty at all in housing or indeed getting by. This legacy stands completely against what our politicians are meant to have done and the directions they should have been moving in. Negligent. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Nov 2019 4.17pm) Problem is, I don't really see how we get to our 'utopia' of a functioning democracy. I look at the USA and I must admit, our lot at least have the decency to be corrupt behind our backs. Very British of them. It's a loony bin there. So, do we need to go down the authoritarian route? Not going to happen The one thing I am adamant about is that politicians decisions can affect millions of people, either economically or physically, by going to wars, etc. So, they're either politicians or they're not, no side businesses. Their rate of pay should reflect the % increase/decrease in the minimum wage each year and I don't see why capital punishment for failed manifesto promises shouldn't be on the table. We live in a society now, where companies can pollute natural resources, game the financial system and there is no hard punishment for this, just fines. Most importantly we need a channel or some kind of outlet where real experts discuss topics like Brexit, climate change, economics in a normal non politically slanted way, that we all access. That's probably the most important aspect for me.
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eagleman13  On The Road To Hell & Alicante 05 Nov 19 4.45pm |
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I see Phillip Hammond is jumping ship
I'm a blind man, i'm a blind man, now my room is cold, |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 05 Nov 19 4.52pm |
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Originally posted by eagleman13
I see Phillip Hammond is jumping ship He is standing down as an MP, stating that the Conservative Party is no longer a "Broad church".
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| Stirlingsays 05 Nov 19 5.04pm |
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Originally posted by Jway89
Problem is, I don't really see how we get to our 'utopia' of a functioning democracy. As I'm sure you agree I don't believe in 'utopia' or even that a 'fair' society, in the way that idealogs view it, is even possible. Originally posted by Jway89
I look at the USA and I must admit, our lot at least have the decency to be corrupt behind our backs. Very British of them. It's a loony bin there. Yep, but what is happening over there is slowly emerging over here. The cultures are still....for now....joined at the hip. Originally posted by Jway89
So, do we need to go down the authoritarian route? Not going to happen I'd argue that the state has been moving in an authoritarian direction since Blair came to office. But in the sense that you mean I think that is certainly on the table at some stage.....but personally I think that's some years away if it happens at all. But an authoritarian state is already here compared to the one I grew up in. Originally posted by Jway89
The one thing I am adamant about is that politicians decisions can affect millions of people, either economically or physically, by going to wars, etc. Sure I agree, the wisdom of a war is of course perspective and often hindsight but there is little doubt that its affects are permanent for those at the front line of it. Originally posted by Jway89
So, they're either politicians or they're not, no side businesses. Their rate of pay should reflect the % increase/decrease in the minimum wage each year and I don't see why capital punishment for failed manifesto promises shouldn't be on the table. We live in a society now, where companies can pollute natural resources, game the financial system and there is no hard punishment for this, just fines. Life is grey, I'm not so sure. Originally posted by Jway89
Most importantly we need a channel or some kind of outlet where real experts discuss topics like Brexit, climate change, economics in a normal non politically slanted way, that we all access. That's probably the most important aspect for me. Again, I like the sentiments and it's certainly the direction I would like. I don't believe pure objectivity is possible as everyone has bias and motives. However, I certainly agree that channels can be more objective and more self disciplined. However, I think the time where that was possible is behind us as the Internet has shown that polarisation is where the money is at.
Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Nov 2019 5.06pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 05 Nov 19 5.08pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
He is standing down as an MP, stating that the Conservative Party is no longer a "Broad church". As in, not enough 'remainers'?
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 05 Nov 19 5.13pm |
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Originally posted by eagleman13
As in, not enough 'remainers'? I have no idea regards the reasoning behind his assertion. He has been MP for 'Runnymede and Weybridge' since this constituency was created in 1997 and I can assert with a degree of certainty that it will remain Conservative in the coming election. Edited by Willo (05 Nov 2019 5.18pm)
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 05 Nov 19 5.30pm |
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Originally posted by eagleman13
I see Phillip Hammond is jumping ship An arch-turd of the highest possible order. Royally arse-raped the self employed.
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| Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 05 Nov 19 5.31pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
I have no idea regards the reasoning behind his assertion. He has been MP for 'Runnymede and Weybridge' since this constituency was created in 1997 and I can assert with a degree of certainty that it will remain Conservative in the coming election. Edited by Willo (05 Nov 2019 5.18pm) He was in real danger of being deselected.
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| Midlands Eagle 05 Nov 19 5.36pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
An arch-turd of the highest possible order. Royally arse-raped the self employed. I'm self employed and I did quite well under Hammond's stewardship of the government purse strings
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