The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 NickinOX  Sailing country. 04 Jul 16 7.44pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
My points stand. Being disenfranchised is an accurate reflection and is not grammatically or logically incorrect. Your link is from 28 June. The data has been superseded, see above. I didn't say it was grammatically incorrect. I simply pointed out that what you said did not match what you were claiming. As for the survey, it is only one of a number and just because it is a couple of days more recent does not guarantee it is more accurate. It also seems (at the moment), to be the only one claiming that. Of course, that may change. This survey reflects far more of the commentary in the press, but I would not take it as being any more definitive in isolation than the LSE one you cite:
If you come to a fork in the road, take it. |
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Rudi Hedman  Caterham 04 Jul 16 8.12pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You're missing the point completely - if someone acts like a spoilt brat, feel free to tell them or take the piss - the difference is assuming everybody else within that demographic thinks and acts the same, as you and others have done many times on this thread - and it was those same voices posting about how unfair it is to label all leavers racists - it's exactly the same principle. Have we? If you can prove we have then fair enough, but I think I may have called the whingers, whiners, sulkers and complainers because that is what they're doing. I don't think I have criticised and labelled the whole demographic in that way. Well not intentionally anyway. Maybe things like the 'sulking youngsters' may have been used but that's specifically sulking youngsters, not all the young. Maybe I should label them the 'young and educated sulking and whingeing youngsters.' Maybe that'll be more specific.
COYP |
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| Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 8.20pm |
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Originally posted by NickinOX
I didn't say it was grammatically incorrect. I simply pointed out that what you said did not match what you were claiming. As for the survey, it is only one of a number and just because it is a couple of days more recent does not guarantee it is more accurate. It also seems (at the moment), to be the only one claiming that. Of course, that may change. This survey reflects far more of the commentary in the press, but I would not take it as being any more definitive in isolation than the LSE one you cite:
I must be missing something I don't see any empirical data on turnout patterns by age. All I see is that overall where there were higher numbers of older people the turnout was higher. On its own that means nothing. It is linked to geography not to the demographic. So it isn't on a par with the LSE survey as you imply. To be clear, you don't have to be engaged to become disengaged. You don't have to have been enchanted to be disenchanted. You don't have to have been illusioned to be disillusioned. You don't have to have been interested to be disinterested. I think my point is obvious on disenfranchisement.
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| NickinOX Sailing country. 04 Jul 16 8.50pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I must be missing something I don't see any empirical data on turnout patterns by age. All I see is that overall where there were higher numbers of older people the turnout was higher. On its own that means nothing. It is linked to geography not to the demographic. So it isn't on a par with the LSE survey as you imply. To be clear, you don't have to be engaged to become disengaged. You don't have to have been enchanted to be disenchanted. You don't have to have been illusioned to be disillusioned. You don't have to have been interested to be disinterested. I think my point is obvious on disenfranchisement.
I think you are missing something. Clearly, I need to quote your own words back to you again: "16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised." i.e. They had the franchise, then it was removed and they are bitter about it. I don't disagree that someone can be disenfranchised without having ever had the vote, but that is not what you wrote. You are right, there is no empirical data. I never claimed there was. In fact, despite your attempt at a straw man argument, I pointed out the surveys provided no more than pieces of information that were to be treated with scepticism in isolation. The two links I provided merely show some information about Brexit voters, and some journalists' interpretation of the information. Nothing more.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Jul 16 8.58pm |
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You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous.
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| Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 04 Jul 16 9.04pm |
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Disenfranchised my Ass. The Only thing kids at that age should be disenfranchised about is what to wear at the weekend & whether they are going to get their leg over.
Pro USA & Israel |
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| Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.05pm |
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Originally posted by NickinOX
I think you are missing something. Clearly, I need to quote your own words back to you again: "16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised." i.e. They had the franchise, then it was removed and they are bitter about it. I don't disagree that someone can be disenfranchised without having ever had the vote, but that is not what you wrote. You are right, there is no empirical data. I never claimed there was. In fact, despite your attempt at a straw man argument, I pointed out the surveys provided no more than pieces of information that were to be treated with scepticism in isolation. The two links I provided merely show some information about Brexit voters, and some journalists' interpretation of the information. Nothing more. Sadly you don't understand the definition of the word. You don't have to have been enfranchised to become disenfranchised, merely to feel it. I tried to explain but am now disillusioned and disinterested. Regarding voting patterns, you can't treat each source equally. Only one is based on proper analysis. You imply each source should be treated as valid and equal, not true.
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| elgrande bedford 04 Jul 16 9.07pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous. Only as a junior soldier,can not do active service.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| elgrande bedford 04 Jul 16 9.08pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous. And do you really think sixteen year olds have enough about them to vote .
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.09pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
Disenfranchised my Ass. The Only thing kids at that age should be disenfranchised about is what to wear at the weekend & whether they are going to get their leg over. Do you know, I used to wonder why we got so few new posters and so few from our younger supporters. Of course, the reason must be they are lazy, feckless and have no interest in Palace, local affairs or current affairs. Or, just maybe, they don't feel especially welcomed or valued.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Jul 16 9.09pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Sadly you don't understand the definition of the word. You don't have to have been enfranchised to become disenfranchised, merely to feel it. I tried to explain but am now disillusioned and disinterested. Regarding voting patterns, you can't treat each source equally. Only one is based on proper analysis. You imply each source should be treated as valid and equal, not true. This song sums up the last 12 hours... You are both right regarding disenfranchisement. All about context and semantics innit!
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| Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.10pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
And do you really think sixteen year olds have enough about them to vote . Absobloominglutely. Put my daughter in a room with my mother and see who wins the debates. And my mother is a denizen of a certain national political party, attending conferences n everything.
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