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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 npn  Crowborough 02 Mar 17 9.05am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
But it's not another 'party' is it? It's 27 parties. I'm all for the olive branch. If one of them doesn't take it any law can be repealed or a new one introduced specifically to address a single irritation. If we go in hard and all billy big bollocks it will backfire spectacularly. The other 27 together will make mincemeat of us. They are already playing hardball, and seem to wish to make the process as hard for the UK as possible to discourage others flying the nest. We will get no favours in this negotiation (they can't afford to, or there will be a flood of other nations leaving and the whole thing will disintegrate), and far from using people as bargaining chips, not guaranteeing EU rights without a reciprocal agreement is protecting UK citizens living in the EU. You are right, of course, that we could repeal the law later, but why enshrine it now? Seems totally pointless - either reach an agreement now (the EU won't, of course) or leave it to the negotiation period
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 02 Mar 17 9.24am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I wonder how many people who bemoan foreign workers thought Auf Weidersein Pet was a great programme. Building homes for a country still recovering from war. When did the last bomb fall on England or half a generation of men wiped out? Edited by Rudi Hedman (02 Mar 2017 9.51am)
COYP |
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| matt_himself Matataland 02 Mar 17 9.26am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
But it's not another 'party' is it? It's 27 parties. I'm all for the olive branch. If one of them doesn't take it any law can be repealed or a new one introduced specifically to address a single irritation. If we go in hard and all billy big bollocks it will backfire spectacularly. The other 27 together will make mincemeat of us. We have a strong hand: Negotiations involve carrot and stick. The Lords failed to get this yesterday. Besides the '27' you speak of are not a united body and they will not act together in some instances because of self interest. This set of negotiations is not as straightforward as you think it is.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| npn Crowborough 02 Mar 17 9.59am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
But it's not another 'party' is it? It's 27 parties. I'm all for the olive branch. If one of them doesn't take it any law can be repealed or a new one introduced specifically to address a single irritation. If we go in hard and all billy big bollocks it will backfire spectacularly. The other 27 together will make mincemeat of us. Sorry - responded to Nick, forgot you! I'm not sure what you hope to gain by the olive branch (I'd be all for it if it would work, but it won't). You can't give the other party (or parties) what they want before negotiations begin and then expect to get something out of those negotiations. You've given up your cards, and are just hoping they see fit to give you something in return later - very weak negotiating, that. It would be equivalent to the RMT in the current Southern rail dispute issuing new contracts stating the conductors will no longer open doors, and then later going into negotiations with Southern to see what they can get in return for their act of goodwill. The answer would be, unsurprisingly, absolutely nothing.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Mar 17 10.04am |
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Originally posted by npn
Sorry - responded to Nick, forgot you! I'm not sure what you hope to gain by the olive branch (I'd be all for it if it would work, but it won't). You can't give the other party (or parties) what they want before negotiations begin and then expect to get something out of those negotiations. You've given up your cards, and are just hoping they see fit to give you something in return later - very weak negotiating, that. It would be equivalent to the RMT in the current Southern rail dispute issuing new contracts stating the conductors will no longer open doors, and then later going into negotiations with Southern to see what they can get in return for their act of goodwill. The answer would be, unsurprisingly, absolutely nothing. Rule one, never underestimated the naivety of the liberal/left.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Mar 17 10.12am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Rule one, never underestimated the naivety of the liberal/left.
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 02 Mar 17 10.26am |
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Theresa May had proposed that EU workers currently living in the UK be allowed to remain in exchange for an agreement which gives British expats in the European Union the same rights. Angela Merkel said 'nein'!! [Link] So the Lords' grandstanding will really help the UK's negotiating hand... c***s! Edited by Penge Eagle (02 Mar 2017 10.27am)
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 Hrolf The Ganger 02 Mar 17 12.02pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
But it's not another 'party' is it? It's 27 parties. I'm all for the olive branch. If one of them doesn't take it any law can be repealed or a new one introduced specifically to address a single irritation. If we go in hard and all billy big bollocks it will backfire spectacularly. The other 27 together will make mincemeat of us. That's what you are hoping for isn't it. To teach all us Brexit, pro British types a lesson.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Mar 17 12.07pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
But it's not another 'party' is it? It's 27 parties. I'm all for the olive branch. If one of them doesn't take it any law can be repealed or a new one introduced specifically to address a single irritation. If we go in hard and all billy big bollocks it will backfire spectacularly. The other 27 together will make mincemeat of us. How many divisions (in every sense of the word) have the 27 got?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Mar 17 12.20pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
That's what you are hoping for isn't it. To teach all us Brexit, pro British types a lesson. Are you suggesting those that voted to stay in the EU are anti British. If you've advocated Scottish independence doesn't that make you anti British? Do you really think people want things to go tits up? Edited by nickgusset (02 Mar 2017 12.21pm)
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| Hrolf The Ganger 02 Mar 17 12.27pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Are you suggesting those that voted to stay in the EU are anti British. If you've advocated Scottish independence doesn't that make you anti British? My post was aimed at Kermit. The relation ship between being Pro EU and anti British is not universal I'm sure but for some types hating everything about their own country and it's history seems to be the norm. If you advocate Scottish independence I wish you luck. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (02 Mar 2017 12.27pm)
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Mar 17 12.55pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
My post was aimed at Kermit. The relation ship between being Pro EU and anti British is not universal I'm sure but for some types hating everything about their own country and it's history seems to be the norm. If you advocate Scottish independence I wish you luck. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (02 Mar 2017 12.27pm) Names, examples or are you typing s***e?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Mar 17 1.23pm |
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If the deal means that we deport lots of Europeans (which the Lords quite rightly poo pooed) will Theresa May be up there with Idi Amin?
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| npn Crowborough 02 Mar 17 1.29pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
If the deal means that we deport lots of Europeans (which the Lords quite rightly poo pooed) will Theresa May be up there with Idi Amin? That will only happen if the EU decide to do that to UK citizens. As already stated, May has already asked for a reciprocal deal, and Merkel and Junker said 'no dice'. Does this place Merkel and Junker up there with Idi Amin?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 02 Mar 17 2.02pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Names, examples or are you typing s***e? God you are so boring with your lefty political, technical evasive codswallop.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Mar 17 2.10pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
God you are so boring with your lefty political, technical evasive codswallop. Once again you can't back up what you have said. How is askingfor a modicum of evidence technical. If anyone is evasive, it's the person who refuses to back up their (somewhat pie in the sky)claims.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 02 Mar 17 2.43pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Once again you can't back up what you have said. How is askingfor a modicum of evidence technical. If anyone is evasive, it's the person who refuses to back up their (somewhat pie in the sky)claims. Age old left wing tactics. Make everything an evasion or argue about the detail to avoid the real issues and the real truth. You aren't original comrade.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Mar 17 2.51pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Age old left wing tactics. Make everything an evasion or argue about the detail to avoid the real issues and the real truth. You aren't original comrade.
For example, someone might say that there are loads of people that are obsessed with multiculturalism. If someone asks for an example of someone who is obsessed with multiculturalism, they are looking for evidence that backs up the original claim. They are not evading the subject. If the person who makes the claim doesn't back it up, it is they who are evading. It's not too difficult to comprehend. Is it?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 02 Mar 17 3.30pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
For example, someone might say that there are loads of people that are obsessed with multiculturalism. If someone asks for an example of someone who is obsessed with multiculturalism, they are looking for evidence that backs up the original claim. They are not evading the subject. If the person who makes the claim doesn't back it up, it is they who are evading. It's not too difficult to comprehend. Is it? Yawn!
Do we agree that Brits in Europe deserve protection?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Mar 17 4.16pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yawn!
Do we agree that Brits in Europe deserve protection?
Do you not think the public deserve to know what we are aiming for before article 50 is triggered. I'm also still interested in examples of who you mean by some types hating everything about their own country and it's history seems to be the norm. If you can't it completely invalidates your argument.
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