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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jun 17 10.54am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Really? And here was me thinking all this time that most conflicts were because others had something that someone else wanted. Land, resources, mineral wealth, etc, that kind of thing. But it turns out according to our resident Hol historian that they came about because others spoke a different language, ate different food and they danced funny. You analyse history through your Marxist perspective and, as with most Marxist analysis, it is b*ll***s.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jun 17 10.54am | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Religion isn't evil at all per se as it's people that are evil and just use religion as an excuse to kill each other This is a meaningless statement. Religion and evil are human constructs. Humans are a complex bunch and we delude ourselves on a daily basis to make sense of things.
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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jun 17 11.00am | |
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Originally posted by europalace
Imagine how peaceful Northern Ireland would have been without Christianity. So pagans were peaceful? I really don't understand people like you who want to divert from and fudge a situation.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jun 17 11.02am | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
This is the cold hard truth Whilst its clearly the case, and no one would make it otherwise, its important to note that 'terrorism' doesn't really have a universally shared meaning, even within countries. For example, the US State Department in the 80s and 90s (possibly even still) didn't consider suicide bombings against the Israeli's in the occupied territory and settlements as terrorism - as it fell within the UN definition of the right to self defence against occupation. Similarly, Hezbollah, a known terrorist group, wasn't considered as a terrorist actor when acting in the Golan Heights or in defence of Lebanon, during Israeli incursions. Even though the US constantly referred to these actions as terrorist activities, the State Departments definition was different to the White House. Terrorist really is a political buzzword as well, that's very loaded. The Nazis referred to the SOE, Commandos and Resistance movements as terrorist, which the UN specifically separated out post war under the right of an occupied national to resist by any means. Also a lot of what is considered 'Islamic terrorism' can often be more about regional politics. Whilst things like White Supremist in the US get a pass on being terrorist, despite being drawn along very religious lines. Indeed the US didn't even consider domestic terrorism to be terrorism until the late 80s.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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7mins In the bush 05 Jun 17 11.05am | |
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Originally posted by europalace
If that is true (it isn't). Why are Isis killing fellow Muslims in the Middle East? It's a death cult.
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steeleye20 Croydon 05 Jun 17 11.06am | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
That's why she should go - she won't be able to mend things as it means her doing a u-turn.
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Jun 17 11.07am | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
You analyse history through your Marxist perspective and, as with most Marxist analysis, it is b*ll***s. I forgot to add 'power' to my list too. You think people go to full-on war because of cultural differences? Napolean - land/power, Hitler - land/power, Colonial conflicts - land, resources, wealth, any empire-building especially Rome - the same, Milosevic - land, Falklands - land, Iraq and the Gulf land, plus hundreds of the same MO other examples throughout history. You carry on with your thoughts, though, no matter how irrefutably incorrect and blinkered. Place would be boring without deniers such as yourself.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jun 17 11.07am | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
You analyse history through your Marxist perspective and, as with most Marxist analysis, it is b*ll***s. You'd be wrong though, given that even right wing historians and apolitical accademics use the principles of Marxist Social Conflict theory. Wars are usually about wealth, power, resources and geo-political influence. Or a response to another faction or countries attempts to increase their own. Al-Qaeda at the point of the 9/11 attacks was a fading has been. It had money, but few members anymore, with most of its previous influence having be absorbed into the localised Mujahadeen, and returning fighters. Post-9/11 it was the premium world wide brand for Sunni Islamist terrorist groups.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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7mins In the bush 05 Jun 17 11.13am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Sympathise with terrorist attacks is an issue, and it needs to be addressed, but it does depend on what you mean by sympathetic. If it means willing to break the law and provide material support to terrorism, then yes. But 4% of Muslims being sympathetic is surprisingly small compared to the kind of sympathetic support Loyalist and Republican terrorists had during the 70s, 80s and 90s. 4% said they have sympathy with using terror attacks to defend Islam. The survey also gave a greater number (I think it was 9%) who wouldn't notify police if they knew someone planning to commit terrorist acts
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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 05 Jun 17 11.14am | |
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Originally posted by europalace
That's all very noble, saying what should have happened and speaking in the past tense, but we're talking about what needs to happen now. Today. Hindsight's great, I'd have all of my money invested in the Hindsight Fund if it existed, but it doesn't. One of the reasons Northern Ireland went on for so long was because both sides kept quoting what had happened in previous centuries. The Omagh bomb gave all sides an excuse to talk about the here and now (then), regardless of who actually planted it, whether they were on the verge of running out of money etc. NOTHING will happen until the communities from which these modern terrorists come start to exert pressure from within. Someone earlier pointed out how the audience at the Manchester concert last night didn't begin to reflect the social make-up of Manchester. However uncomfortable that observation is, it's true. Nothing will happen overnight and others will die needlessly in this country and across the world soon, but pussyfooting about has to stop. If certain groups get offended, sobeit. Keep harking back and looking at the causes don't help any more. The terrorists have brought this very much into real life and real time. Sadly, we probably haven't reached our Omagh moment yet, or our Liverpool 9-0 or Sunderland 4-0 at half time moments for that matter. Rock bottom, in other words.
Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jun 17 11.18am | |
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Originally posted by europalace
Idealism.
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Jun 17 11.19am | |
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Originally posted by mezzer
That's all very noble, saying what should have happened and speaking in the past tense, but we're talking about what needs to happen now. Today. Hindsight's great, I'd have all of my money invested in the Hindsight Fund if it existed, but it doesn't. One of the reasons Northern Ireland went on for so long was because both sides kept quoting what had happened in previous centuries. The Omagh bomb gave all sides an excuse to talk about the here and now (then), regardless of who actually planted it, whether they were on the verge of running out of money etc. NOTHING will happen until the communities from which these modern terrorists come start to exert pressure from within. Someone earlier pointed out how the audience at the Manchester concert last night didn't begin to reflect the social make-up of Manchester. However uncomfortable that observation is, it's true. Nothing will happen overnight and others will die needlessly in this country and across the world soon, but pussyfooting about has to stop. If certain groups get offended, sobeit. Keep harking back and looking at the causes don't help any more. The terrorists have brought this very much into real life and real time. Sadly, we probably haven't reached our Omagh moment yet, or our Liverpool 9-0 or Sunderland 4-0 at half time moments for that matter. Rock bottom, in other words. I dunno. Top right. Attachment: Manc.jpg (59.97Kb)
Big chest and massive boobs |
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