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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 24 May 21 6.47pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 The EU isn't a country of 'sovereign' nation, it can't ban flights on behalf of any individual sovereign nation, that's up to each individual country, just like the UK. Lithuania, bordering Belarus has already banned it's flights from Belarussian airspace. Additionally, not all countries use fly over this area. The EU can consider EU economic sanctions, moves that are at EU level but not at a 'sovereign' level of any nation. Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 5.58pm) And Ukraine will veto them so no response from the EU will happen at all. There will be tough words. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 24 May 21 6.47pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

The EU isn't a country of 'sovereign' nation, it can't ban flights on behalf of any individual sovereign nation, that's up to each individual country, just like the UK. Lithuania, bordering Belarus has already banned it's flights from Belarussian airspace. Additionally, not all countries use fly over this area.

The EU can consider EU economic sanctions, moves that are at EU level but not at a 'sovereign' level of any nation.

Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 5.58pm)

And Ukraine will veto them so no response from the EU will happen at all. There will be tough words.

Red and Blue Army!

Matov 24 May 21 6.55pm
Originally posted by Orange1290 The EU isn't a country of 'sovereign' nation, it can't ban flights on behalf of any individual sovereign nation, that's up to each individual country, just like the UK. Lithuania, bordering Belarus has already banned it's flights from Belarussian airspace. Additionally, not all countries use fly over this area. The EU can consider EU economic sanctions, moves that are at EU level but not at a 'sovereign' level of any nation. Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 5.58pm) Which is all well and good but why does the EU then maintain its status as a 'nation'? With all the trappings such as flags, anthems, ambassadors, foreign minstry and so on? Is that all a pretence? The equivalent of allowing a child to dress up in a policeman's costume and everybody pretends it can arrest you until such a time that the grown-ups have to take control? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

24 May 21 6.55pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

The EU can consider EU economic sanctions, moves that are at EU level but not at a 'sovereign' level of any nation.

Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 5.58pm)

Which is all well and good but why does the EU then maintain its status as a 'nation'? With all the trappings such as flags, anthems, ambassadors, foreign minstry and so on?

Is that all a pretence? The equivalent of allowing a child to dress up in a policeman's costume and everybody pretends it can arrest you until such a time that the grown-ups have to take control?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Orange1290 24 May 21 7.41pm
Originally posted by Matov Which is all well and good but why does the EU then maintain its status as a 'nation'? With all the trappings such as flags, anthems, ambassadors, foreign minstry and so on? Is that all a pretence? The equivalent of allowing a child to dress up in a policeman's costume and everybody pretends it can arrest you until such a time that the grown-ups have to take control? Not at all, it's the largest economic bloc in the world, so it needs to be represented internationally. However, unlike many of those who voted for brexit claiming the UK had lost its 'sovereignty', it was never taken away in the first place and that's been displayed on multiple occasions over the last 12 months, with individual EU member nations managing their own borders, their own vaccination roll outs and this week, their own international air operations. Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 7.42pm) Pro China, EU & Palestine

Orange1290

24 May 21 7.41pm

Originally posted by Matov

Which is all well and good but why does the EU then maintain its status as a 'nation'? With all the trappings such as flags, anthems, ambassadors, foreign minstry and so on?

Is that all a pretence? The equivalent of allowing a child to dress up in a policeman's costume and everybody pretends it can arrest you until such a time that the grown-ups have to take control?

Not at all, it's the largest economic bloc in the world, so it needs to be represented internationally. However, unlike many of those who voted for brexit claiming the UK had lost its 'sovereignty', it was never taken away in the first place and that's been displayed on multiple occasions over the last 12 months, with individual EU member nations managing their own borders, their own vaccination roll outs and this week, their own international air operations.

Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 7.42pm)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

Matov 25 May 21 7.28am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Not at all, it's the largest economic bloc in the world, so it needs to be represented internationally. However, unlike many of those who voted for brexit claiming the UK had lost its 'sovereignty', it was never taken away in the first place and that's been displayed on multiple occasions over the last 12 months, with individual EU member nations managing their own borders, their own vaccination roll outs and this week, their own international air operations. Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 7.42pm) So the EU is really just an organisation then? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

25 May 21 7.28am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 7.42pm)

So the EU is really just an organisation then?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

chris123 hove actually 25 May 21 7.37am
Originally posted by Orange1290 Well, the EU can apply more sanction although there are already a huge number if these imposed already. Additionally, as sanctions are imposed, Putin simply overrides these by supplementing the impact of any sanctions with more support. This in turn alienates and brings Belarus closer to Russia every time the west does this. Sure you can ban Belarussian airlines from landing at European airports and make Belarussian airspace a no go zone but the real issue is Russia, which will cancel out any impact on this relatively small country. Sanctions only hurt the normal residents of Belarus, the 'elite' will feel no effect from them as they will receive reciprocal support from Russia. Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 4.26pm) Lowish oil prices hurt Russia and the Belarussian economy is dependant on Russia.

chris123

hove actually 25 May 21 7.37am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Well, the EU can apply more sanction although there are already a huge number if these imposed already. Additionally, as sanctions are imposed, Putin simply overrides these by supplementing the impact of any sanctions with more support. This in turn alienates and brings Belarus closer to Russia every time the west does this. Sure you can ban Belarussian airlines from landing at European airports and make Belarussian airspace a no go zone but the real issue is Russia, which will cancel out any impact on this relatively small country.

Sanctions only hurt the normal residents of Belarus, the 'elite' will feel no effect from them as they will receive reciprocal support from Russia.

Edited by Orange1290 (24 May 2021 4.26pm)

Lowish oil prices hurt Russia and the Belarussian economy is dependant on Russia.

steeleye20 Croydon 25 May 21 6.48pm
An enjoyable throw-back to the cold war. I was half-expecting Michael Caine and Colonel Stock. Or Callan versus 'Richmond'. Those were the days.

steeleye20

Croydon 25 May 21 6.48pm

An enjoyable throw-back to the cold war.

I was half-expecting Michael Caine and Colonel Stock.

Or Callan versus 'Richmond'.

Those were the days.

Badger11 Beckenham 25 May 21 6.51pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 An enjoyable throw-back to the cold war. I was half-expecting Michael Caine and Colonel Stock. Or Callan versus 'Richmond'. Those were the days. Just finished watching that on London Live One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 25 May 21 6.51pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

An enjoyable throw-back to the cold war.

I was half-expecting Michael Caine and Colonel Stock.

Or Callan versus 'Richmond'.

Those were the days.

Just finished watching that on London Live

One more point

steeleye20 Croydon 25 May 21 7.02pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Just finished watching that on London Live You too? I am an addict. The best film ever for me 'The Spy who came in from the cold'.

steeleye20

Croydon 25 May 21 7.02pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Just finished watching that on London Live

You too? I am an addict.

The best film ever for me 'The Spy who came in from the cold'.

Badger11 Beckenham 25 May 21 7.03pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 You too? I am an addict. The best film ever for me 'The Spy who came in from the cold'. Tinker Tailor with Alec Guiness. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 25 May 21 7.03pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

You too? I am an addict.

The best film ever for me 'The Spy who came in from the cold'.

Tinker Tailor with Alec Guiness.

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 26 May 21 11.01pm
Switzerland walks away from EU deal [Link] 13 years of talks down the drain. The EU again pushing for too much, after Brexit you would have hoped that they would have realised this was an opportunity to create a template which perhaps the UK and other non EU countries might have considered in the future. Freedom of movement for workers was the sticking point again. President Van Useless not covering herself in glory. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 26 May 21 11.01pm

Switzerland walks away from EU deal

[Link]

13 years of talks down the drain. The EU again pushing for too much, after Brexit you would have hoped that they would have realised this was an opportunity to create a template which perhaps the UK and other non EU countries might have considered in the future.

Freedom of movement for workers was the sticking point again.

President Van Useless not covering herself in glory.

One more point

BlueJay UK 27 May 21 12.34am
Originally posted by Badger11 Switzerland walks away from EU deal [Link] 13 years of talks down the drain. The EU again pushing for too much, after Brexit you would have hoped that they would have realised this was an opportunity to create a template which perhaps the UK and other non EU countries might have considered in the future. Freedom of movement for workers was the sticking point again. President Van Useless not covering herself in glory. From our perspective now, it's probably best that the whole thing falls apart and gets put back together again in terms of ease of trade, but not the fixation on freedom of movement. Sure it's a privilege to be able to more where we wish, but without limits the pace of change is too fast. That's the sad thing about our relationship with the EU, if they had been reasonable something of mutual benefit (that would've actually benefited the whole of the EU) could've been thrashed out.

BlueJay

UK 27 May 21 12.34am

Originally posted by Badger11

Switzerland walks away from EU deal

[Link]

Freedom of movement for workers was the sticking point again.

President Van Useless not covering herself in glory.

From our perspective now, it's probably best that the whole thing falls apart and gets put back together again in terms of ease of trade, but not the fixation on freedom of movement. Sure it's a privilege to be able to more where we wish, but without limits the pace of change is too fast. That's the sad thing about our relationship with the EU, if they had been reasonable something of mutual benefit (that would've actually benefited the whole of the EU) could've been thrashed out.

Orange1290 27 May 21 6.37am
"Boris Johnson warned not to strike Australia trade deal that could 'decimate' British farming" [Link] Not a nice place trying to make deals as a 3rd country, especially when you have a government that doesn't care about local industry. Edited by Orange1290 (27 May 2021 6.37am) Pro China, EU & Palestine

Orange1290

27 May 21 6.37am

"Boris Johnson warned not to strike Australia trade deal that could 'decimate' British farming"

[Link]

Not a nice place trying to make deals as a 3rd country, especially when you have a government that doesn't care about local industry.

Edited by Orange1290 (27 May 2021 6.37am)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

dannyboy1978 27 May 21 6.49am
That's surprising [Link]

dannyboy1978

27 May 21 6.49am

That's surprising
[Link]

Badger11 Beckenham 27 May 21 7.51am
Originally posted by Orange1290 "Boris Johnson warned not to strike Australia trade deal that could 'decimate' British farming" [Link] Not a nice place trying to make deals as a 3rd country, especially when you have a government that doesn't care about local industry. Edited by Orange1290 (27 May 2021 6.37am) Any trade negotiation will impact somebody so far I have not heard what the UK will benefit from and that to me is the key question. I am not in favour of giving up our farming industry for nothing so what do we get in return. As for our farmers they have had 40 years of being funded by the taxpayer (CAP) and yet we have had many food / health scandals during this time. They may not be able to compete with Australian large scale farming so they should focus on quality. I would like to see any taxpayer support focused on free range, organic and environmental friendly produce, the public can then make the choice as to what they buy. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 27 May 21 7.51am

Originally posted by Orange1290

"Boris Johnson warned not to strike Australia trade deal that could 'decimate' British farming"

[Link]

Not a nice place trying to make deals as a 3rd country, especially when you have a government that doesn't care about local industry.

Edited by Orange1290 (27 May 2021 6.37am)

Any trade negotiation will impact somebody so far I have not heard what the UK will benefit from and that to me is the key question. I am not in favour of giving up our farming industry for nothing so what do we get in return.

As for our farmers they have had 40 years of being funded by the taxpayer (CAP) and yet we have had many food / health scandals during this time.

They may not be able to compete with Australian large scale farming so they should focus on quality.

I would like to see any taxpayer support focused on free range, organic and environmental friendly produce, the public can then make the choice as to what they buy.

One more point

Orange1290 27 May 21 7.59am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 That's surprising [Link] Not surprising at all as the report also states the reason: "China was the only major economy to see its global trade grow last year as it became the first big country to emerge from the pandemic." However it also states: "Despite a 23.1% fall in total trade with European Union countries as a whole in the period, the EU remains the UK's biggest trading partner, the report found." To put things into perspective, in 2020 Germany was the 3rd largest exporter of goods in the world, more than double the the value of UK exports at nearly 1.4 trillion. Germany has a population only 20% larger than the UK. It's really no contest in global trade. [Link] Edited by Orange1290 (27 May 2021 8.02am) Pro China, EU & Palestine

Orange1290

27 May 21 7.59am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

That's surprising
[Link]

Not surprising at all as the report also states the reason:

"China was the only major economy to see its global trade grow last year as it became the first big country to emerge from the pandemic."

However it also states:

"Despite a 23.1% fall in total trade with European Union countries as a whole in the period, the EU remains the UK's biggest trading partner, the report found."

To put things into perspective, in 2020 Germany was the 3rd largest exporter of goods in the world, more than double the the value of UK exports at nearly 1.4 trillion. Germany has a population only 20% larger than the UK. It's really no contest in global trade.

[Link]

Edited by Orange1290 (27 May 2021 8.02am)

Pro China, EU & Palestine

Badger11 Beckenham 28 May 21 11.50am
Never mind Brexit this is the real threat to peoples job [Link] One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 May 21 11.50am

Never mind Brexit this is the real threat to peoples job

[Link]

One more point

steeleye20 Croydon 28 May 21 1.17pm
The public really ought to wake up to Truss and her spectacularly bad trade deals. The Australian deal deserves a medal for self inflicting wounds on our farmers. Hopefully we will realise the damage industrial meat production is doing to the planet not least its link to the pandemic, and reject USA and other obnoxious trade deals involving animals crammed together.

steeleye20

Croydon 28 May 21 1.17pm

The public really ought to wake up to Truss and her spectacularly bad trade deals.

The Australian deal deserves a medal for self inflicting wounds on our farmers.

Hopefully we will realise the damage industrial meat production is doing to the planet not least its link to the pandemic, and reject USA and other obnoxious trade deals involving animals crammed together.

steeleye20 Croydon 28 May 21 1.35pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Never mind Brexit this is the real threat to peoples job [Link] If the Daily Mail was replaced by a robot you would not notice the difference.

steeleye20

Croydon 28 May 21 1.35pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Never mind Brexit this is the real threat to peoples job

[Link]

If the Daily Mail was replaced by a robot you would not notice the difference.

Orange1290 28 May 21 1.49pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Never mind Brexit this is the real threat to peoples job [Link] The automation industry itself is massive, employing huge numbers of people in design, testing, manufacturing of both hardware and software and then there are the subdivisions for each specific application. Replacing monotonous and skill-less 'jobs' is a good thing as that's how humanity progresses into a more intelligent society freeing it from unnecessary manual labour. Look at the computer industry, automated thousands of previously manual tasks but employs millions all over the world. Pro China, EU & Palestine

Orange1290

28 May 21 1.49pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Never mind Brexit this is the real threat to peoples job

[Link]

The automation industry itself is massive, employing huge numbers of people in design, testing, manufacturing of both hardware and software and then there are the subdivisions for each specific application. Replacing monotonous and skill-less 'jobs' is a good thing as that's how humanity progresses into a more intelligent society freeing it from unnecessary manual labour. Look at the computer industry, automated thousands of previously manual tasks but employs millions all over the world.

Pro China, EU & Palestine

Badger11 Beckenham 28 May 21 1.57pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 If the Daily Mail was replaced by a robot you would not notice the difference. I thought it had already. MSN news has. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 28 May 21 1.57pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

If the Daily Mail was replaced by a robot you would not notice the difference.

I thought it had already. MSN news has.

One more point

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