Bias against Trump

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Bias against Trump

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wordup 03 Dec 17 9.21am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well, it's a criticism on hypocrisy or ignorance within the philosophy of progressivism as I see it. Essentially value judgements on someone's intelligence are as misplaced as value judgements on many genetically set aspects of an individual. I'm criticising as an opponent of progressivism...and holding it to its own standards. Kermit probably thinks I was just getting at him and so hides in possible mock ignorance but in actuality I'm more making the wider point. As to your point on how we should treat others. I agree up to a point. Civility is a social construct that allows society to operate much more smoothly than its alternatives.....diplomacy is a better social skill than rudeness for an obvious example. However, it is very important for a free society that the differences between individuals are allowed full expression. Mockery, sarcasm, humour, rudeness and insult are all apart of that contexual freedom. So Kermit...in my estimation can call anyone what he likes and thusly I can call him ignorant or a hypocrite for doing so. Interestingly you make a lot of value judgements about the presidentual position. Now, I'd agree with most of those. However, it's plain to see that Trump is capable of carrying out most of his actual duties as POTUS and that this criticism is much more a reaction to the way he does it rather than his capacity. People get what they vote for, that's a very important principle and not everyone cares enough for 'what is proper behaviour' to vote for one undesirable over another. And in contrast, you yourself repeatedly mock peoples 'stupidity', and are enamored with or give a free pass to individuals and groups who go out of their way to attack categories of people you convince yourself are treated as special by your opponents. You have turned yourself into a mirror image of what you hate. But that's your choice. As for the president being capable of carrying out his duties, I'm honestly not sure about that one either way. He's certainly very hard work for those around him let's put it that way. Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 9.30am)

wordup

03 Dec 17 9.21am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well, it's a criticism on hypocrisy or ignorance within the philosophy of progressivism as I see it. Essentially value judgements on someone's intelligence are as misplaced as value judgements on many genetically set aspects of an individual.

I'm criticising as an opponent of progressivism...and holding it to its own standards. Kermit probably thinks I was just getting at him and so hides in possible mock ignorance but in actuality I'm more making the wider point.

As to your point on how we should treat others. I agree up to a point. Civility is a social construct that allows society to operate much more smoothly than its alternatives.....diplomacy is a better social skill than rudeness for an obvious example.

However, it is very important for a free society that the differences between individuals are allowed full expression. Mockery, sarcasm, humour, rudeness and insult are all apart of that contexual freedom. So Kermit...in my estimation can call anyone what he likes and thusly I can call him ignorant or a hypocrite for doing so.

Interestingly you make a lot of value judgements about the presidentual position. Now, I'd agree with most of those. However, it's plain to see that Trump is capable of carrying out most of his actual duties as POTUS and that this criticism is much more a reaction to the way he does it rather than his capacity.

People get what they vote for, that's a very important principle and not everyone cares enough for 'what is proper behaviour' to vote for one undesirable over another.

And in contrast, you yourself repeatedly mock peoples 'stupidity', and are enamored with or give a free pass to individuals and groups who go out of their way to attack categories of people you convince yourself are treated as special by your opponents. You have turned yourself into a mirror image of what you hate. But that's your choice.

As for the president being capable of carrying out his duties, I'm honestly not sure about that one either way. He's certainly very hard work for those around him let's put it that way.

Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 9.30am)

wordup 03 Dec 17 9.34am
Mueller Removed Top Agent in Russia Inquiry Over Possible Anti-Trump Texts - [Link] A serious investigation led by a principled man.

wordup

03 Dec 17 9.34am

Mueller Removed Top Agent in Russia Inquiry Over Possible Anti-Trump Texts - [Link]

A serious investigation led by a principled man.

jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Dec 17 9.35am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well, it's a criticism on hypocrisy or ignorance within the philosophy of progressivism as I see it. Essentially value judgements on someone's intelligence are as misplaced as value judgements on many genetically set aspects of an individual. I'm criticising as an opponent of progressivism...and holding it to its own standards. Kermit probably thinks I was just getting at him and so hides in possible mock ignorance but in actuality I'm more making the wider point. As to your point on how we should treat others. I agree up to a point. Civility is a social construct that allows society to operate much more smoothly than its alternatives.....diplomacy is a better social skill than rudeness for an obvious example. However, it is very important for a free society that the differences between individuals are allowed full expression. Mockery, sarcasm, humour, rudeness and insult are all apart of that contexual freedom. So Kermit...in my estimation can call anyone what he likes and thusly I can call him ignorant or a hypocrite for doing so. Interestingly you make a lot of value judgements about the presidentual position. Now, I'd agree with most of those. However, it's plain to see that Trump is capable of carrying out most of his actual duties as POTUS and that this criticism is much more a reaction to the way he does it rather than his capacity. People get what they vote for, that's a very important principle and not everyone cares enough for 'what is proper behaviour' to vote for one undesirable over another. I don't think there is anything wrong with being stupid per se, although I don't believe its fixed either - your capacity to learn exceeds the limitations of physiology. I do think however there is something wrong when very stupid people are being elected to be leaders of nations. Intelligence isn't fixed by genetics, its not really an inherent thing, but something defined by how you develop your cognitive and educational ability. Genetics probably play a role, but probably more to define the limits - Much like in sport. Not everyone can be a world class athlete, but almost everyone is capable of becoming athletic (you might not become a professional footballer, but you can become someone who is good at football, by training and playing). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 03 Dec 17 9.35am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Interestingly you make a lot of value judgements about the presidentual position. Now, I'd agree with most of those. However, it's plain to see that Trump is capable of carrying out most of his actual duties as POTUS and that this criticism is much more a reaction to the way he does it rather than his capacity.

People get what they vote for, that's a very important principle and not everyone cares enough for 'what is proper behaviour' to vote for one undesirable over another.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being stupid per se, although I don't believe its fixed either - your capacity to learn exceeds the limitations of physiology. I do think however there is something wrong when very stupid people are being elected to be leaders of nations.

Intelligence isn't fixed by genetics, its not really an inherent thing, but something defined by how you develop your cognitive and educational ability. Genetics probably play a role, but probably more to define the limits - Much like in sport. Not everyone can be a world class athlete, but almost everyone is capable of becoming athletic (you might not become a professional footballer, but you can become someone who is good at football, by training and playing).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Stirlingsays 03 Dec 17 11.48am
Originally posted by wordup And in contrast, you yourself repeatedly mock peoples 'stupidity', and are enamored with or give a free pass to individuals and groups who go out of their way to attack categories of people you convince yourself are treated as special by your opponents. You have turned yourself into a mirror image of what you hate. But that's your choice. As for the president being capable of carrying out his duties, I'm honestly not sure about that one either way. He's certainly very hard work for those around him let's put it that way. Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 9.30am) Some of that criticism might have some relevance if I presented myself as a progressive or a person from the left. There are underlying truths in their philosophies but I don't believe in their 'standards' and 'protections' as healthy for society and so I mock their inconsistencies and logical weaknessness. Intelligence is important in society as any successful one requires the use of meritocracy to place the most competent people in the best positions. Clearly there's been an amusing shift with Trump in terms of the very best but he's an exception rather the norm....and he isn't that thick....so sorry but not being intellectual and well spoken doesn't make you thick. Unlike Jamie seems to believe I and rather a lot of the scientific data tends to believe that a lot of.....what we refer to intelligence is 'fixed' biologically at a ceiling we cna't move beyond.....that doesn't mean that we start at that ceiling....we have to work towards it....like I said, you have a potential best sprint time..will you ever reach it? Probably not..same with your intelligence in all its different areas. While I do mock people I don't actually blame anyone for their level of intelligence.....It certainly has no bearing on how pleasant or ethical a fellow they are. Some of the most intelligent people are the cause of the worst problems. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

03 Dec 17 11.48am

Originally posted by wordup

As for the president being capable of carrying out his duties, I'm honestly not sure about that one either way. He's certainly very hard work for those around him let's put it that way.

Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 9.30am)

Some of that criticism might have some relevance if I presented myself as a progressive or a person from the left. There are underlying truths in their philosophies but I don't believe in their 'standards' and 'protections' as healthy for society and so I mock their inconsistencies and logical weaknessness.

Intelligence is important in society as any successful one requires the use of meritocracy to place the most competent people in the best positions. Clearly there's been an amusing shift with Trump in terms of the very best but he's an exception rather the norm....and he isn't that thick....so sorry but not being intellectual and well spoken doesn't make you thick.

Unlike Jamie seems to believe I and rather a lot of the scientific data tends to believe that a lot of.....what we refer to intelligence is 'fixed' biologically at a ceiling we cna't move beyond.....that doesn't mean that we start at that ceiling....we have to work towards it....like I said, you have a potential best sprint time..will you ever reach it? Probably not..same with your intelligence in all its different areas.

While I do mock people I don't actually blame anyone for their level of intelligence.....It certainly has no bearing on how pleasant or ethical a fellow they are. Some of the most intelligent people are the cause of the worst problems.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 03 Dec 17 12.07pm
I'm away for a couple of days on business and so won't be able to reply to Jamie's interesting post on intelligence potential not being set. Catch you guys later. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Dec 2017 12.07pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

03 Dec 17 12.07pm

I'm away for a couple of days on business and so won't be able to reply to Jamie's interesting post on intelligence potential not being set. Catch you guys later.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Dec 2017 12.07pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

wordup 03 Dec 17 12.16pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Some of that criticism might have some relevance if I presented myself as a progressive or a person from the left. There are underlying truths in their philosophies but I don't believe in their 'standards' and 'protections' as healthy for society and so I mock their inconsistencies and logical weaknessness. Intelligence is important in society as any successful one requires the use of meritocracy to place the most competent people in the best positions. Clearly there's been an amusing shift with Trump in terms of the very best but he's an exception rather the norm....and he isn't that thick....so sorry but not being intellectual and well spoken doesn't make you thick. Unlike Jamie seems to believe I and rather a lot of the scientific data tends to believe that a lot of.....what we refer to intelligence is 'fixed' biologically at a ceiling we cna't move beyond.....that doesn't mean that we start at that ceiling....we have to work towards it....like I said, you have a potential best sprint time..will you ever reach it? Probably not..same with your intelligence in all its different areas. While I do mock people I don't actually blame anyone for their level of intelligence.....It certainly has no bearing on how pleasant or ethical a fellow they are. Some of the most intelligent people are the cause of the worst problems. I'm saying that as a reaction to your hatred of what you see as 'progressives', you flip in completely the opposite direction and are, shall we say, routinely unmoved when individuals and groups target minorities. Significantly less empathetic towards certain groups, which of course is how you view progressives so who is better or worse? That's what this panic over American Antifa and BLM but lack of concern over white nationalists and 'oh who are they then, i really wouldn't know' about Britain First here at home is all about. Dog whistle faux 'say it like it is' populist election strategies like Trump's are every bit as real and nauseating as virtue signaling. They are two sides of the same coin and a back of a fag packet way to get easy allegiance from elements of the electorate susceptible to that type of messaging. Trump has bought a decent chunk of his support for pennies in the pound with his s***ty behaviour. Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 12.49pm)

wordup

03 Dec 17 12.16pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Some of that criticism might have some relevance if I presented myself as a progressive or a person from the left. There are underlying truths in their philosophies but I don't believe in their 'standards' and 'protections' as healthy for society and so I mock their inconsistencies and logical weaknessness.

I'm saying that as a reaction to your hatred of what you see as 'progressives', you flip in completely the opposite direction and are, shall we say, routinely unmoved when individuals and groups target minorities. Significantly less empathetic towards certain groups, which of course is how you view progressives so who is better or worse? That's what this panic over American Antifa and BLM but lack of concern over white nationalists and 'oh who are they then, i really wouldn't know' about Britain First here at home is all about.

Dog whistle faux 'say it like it is' populist election strategies like Trump's are every bit as real and nauseating as virtue signaling. They are two sides of the same coin and a back of a fag packet way to get easy allegiance from elements of the electorate susceptible to that type of messaging. Trump has bought a decent chunk of his support for pennies in the pound with his s***ty behaviour.

Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 12.49pm)

wordup 03 Dec 17 12.32pm
I'm not really a betting man but it will be interesting to keep an eye on the odds. Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 1.23pm) Attachment: peachy.JPG (28.98Kb)

wordup

03 Dec 17 12.32pm

I'm not really a betting man but it will be interesting to keep an eye on the odds.

Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 1.23pm)

Attachment: peachy.JPG (28.98Kb)

Penge Eagle Beckenham 03 Dec 17 10.34pm
Meanwhile, GDP is up 3.3% and the US economy is booming! Edited by Penge Eagle (03 Dec 2017 10.35pm)

Penge Eagle

Beckenham 03 Dec 17 10.34pm

Meanwhile, GDP is up 3.3% and the US economy is booming!

Edited by Penge Eagle (03 Dec 2017 10.35pm)

kenbarr Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 03 Dec 17 11.01pm
Originally posted by wordup I'm not really a betting man but it will be interesting to keep an eye on the odds. Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 1.23pm) If I were a betting man I'd put 100 quid plus VAT on No. The GOP controls Congress and isn't about to impeach unless something comes out that is impossible to ignore. Remember, President Obama told President-Elect Trump not to hire him. Flynn must have more skeletons in his closet than contacts with Russia that Trump can use against him. Edited by kenbarr (04 Dec 2017 3.04am) Divorced...And LOVING it! VJRAM Rev. CPFC since Boxing Day 1989 CPFC 2-2 CFC Gregg Berhalter, US International & USMNT Head Coach Jill Ellis, England International & Retired USWNT Head Coach Trevor Francis, International PRAT

kenbarr

Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 03 Dec 17 11.01pm

Originally posted by wordup

I'm not really a betting man but it will be interesting to keep an eye on the odds.

Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 1.23pm)

If I were a betting man I'd put 100 quid plus VAT on No. The GOP controls Congress and isn't about to impeach unless something comes out that is impossible to ignore. Remember, President Obama told President-Elect Trump not to hire him. Flynn must have more skeletons in his closet than contacts with Russia that Trump can use against him.

Edited by kenbarr (04 Dec 2017 3.04am)

Divorced...And LOVING it!
VJRAM Rev.
CPFC since Boxing Day 1989 CPFC 2-2 CFC
Gregg Berhalter, US International & USMNT Head Coach
Jill Ellis, England International & Retired USWNT Head Coach
Trevor Francis, International PRAT

wordup 04 Dec 17 12.40am
Originally posted by kenbarr If I were a betting man I'd put 100 quid plus VAT on No. The GOP controls Congress and isn't about to impeach unless something comes out that is impossible to ignore. Remember, President Obama told President-Elect Trumo not to hire him. Flynn must have more skeletons in his closet than contacts with Russia that Trumo can use against him. Edited by kenbarr (03 Dec 2017 11.01pm) It'll be interesting to keep track of over time. I don't disagree though, as even if Trump does go it might not be as result of impeachment.

wordup

04 Dec 17 12.40am

Originally posted by kenbarr

If I were a betting man I'd put 100 quid plus VAT on No. The GOP controls Congress and isn't about to impeach unless something comes out that is impossible to ignore. Remember, President Obama told President-Elect Trumo not to hire him. Flynn must have more skeletons in his closet than contacts with Russia that Trumo can use against him.

Edited by kenbarr (03 Dec 2017 11.01pm)

It'll be interesting to keep track of over time. I don't disagree though, as even if Trump does go it might not be as result of impeachment.

jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Dec 17 1.03pm
Originally posted by kenbarr If I were a betting man I'd put 100 quid plus VAT on No. The GOP controls Congress and isn't about to impeach unless something comes out that is impossible to ignore. Remember, President Obama told President-Elect Trump not to hire him. Flynn must have more skeletons in his closet than contacts with Russia that Trump can use against him. Edited by kenbarr (04 Dec 2017 3.04am) Its a bit of a catch-22 for Trump if Flynn has lots of skeletons in his closet, as he hired the guy despite being warned. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 04 Dec 17 1.03pm

Originally posted by kenbarr

Edited by kenbarr (04 Dec 2017 3.04am)

Its a bit of a catch-22 for Trump if Flynn has lots of skeletons in his closet, as he hired the guy despite being warned.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Dec 17 1.07pm
Originally posted by kenbarr If I were a betting man I'd put 100 quid plus VAT on No. The GOP controls Congress and isn't about to impeach unless something comes out that is impossible to ignore. Remember, President Obama told President-Elect Trump not to hire him. Flynn must have more skeletons in his closet than contacts with Russia that Trump can use against him. Edited by kenbarr (04 Dec 2017 3.04am) It'd take something special I think for the Republican led congress to vote to impeach the president. If pushed, they'll 'negotiate for him to step down' behind the scenes. Like Nixon, they'll only go for impeachment if he doesn't 'go quietly'. The investigation would have to touch him personally I feel, beyond the implication of involvement to something very concrete. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 04 Dec 17 1.07pm

Originally posted by kenbarr

Edited by kenbarr (04 Dec 2017 3.04am)

It'd take something special I think for the Republican led congress to vote to impeach the president. If pushed, they'll 'negotiate for him to step down' behind the scenes. Like Nixon, they'll only go for impeachment if he doesn't 'go quietly'.

The investigation would have to touch him personally I feel, beyond the implication of involvement to something very concrete.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

wordup 04 Dec 17 1.21pm
Trump lawyer claims the "President cannot obstruct justice" [Link] Quote Trump's legal team is clearly setting the stage to say the president cannot be charged with any of the core crimes discussed in the Russia probe: collusion and obstruction. Presumably, you wouldn't preemptively make these arguments unless you felt there was a chance charges are coming.

wordup

04 Dec 17 1.21pm

Trump lawyer claims the "President cannot obstruct justice" [Link]

Quote Trump's legal team is clearly setting the stage to say the president cannot be charged with any of the core crimes discussed in the Russia probe: collusion and obstruction. Presumably, you wouldn't preemptively make these arguments unless you felt there was a chance charges are coming.

Ray in Houston Houston 04 Dec 17 2.59pm
Originally posted by Penge Eagle Meanwhile, GDP is up 3.3% and the US economy is booming! That's good growth. It's been growing like that for a while now (hint: since Obama cleaned up Bush's mess). Attachment: united-states-gdp-growth.png (16.61Kb) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Ray in Houston

Houston 04 Dec 17 2.59pm

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

Meanwhile, GDP is up 3.3% and the US economy is booming!

That's good growth. It's been growing like that for a while now (hint: since Obama cleaned up Bush's mess).

Attachment: united-states-gdp-growth.png (16.61Kb)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Ray in Houston Houston 04 Dec 17 3.02pm
Originally posted by wordup Trump lawyer claims the "President cannot obstruct justice" [Link] "Well if the President does it, then it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon, shortly before being forced out of office for obstruction of justice. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Ray in Houston

Houston 04 Dec 17 3.02pm

Originally posted by wordup

Trump lawyer claims the "President cannot obstruct justice" [Link]

"Well if the President does it, then it's not illegal."
- Richard M. Nixon, shortly before being forced out of office for obstruction of justice.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Dec 17 5.23pm
Originally posted by wordup Trump lawyer claims the "President cannot obstruct justice" [Link] Quote Trump's legal team is clearly setting the stage to say the president cannot be charged with any of the core crimes discussed in the Russia probe: collusion and obstruction. Presumably, you wouldn't preemptively make these arguments unless you felt there was a chance charges are coming. Explains a lot, if your lawyer doesn't understand how the law works. The US legal system would be absurd to approve this as a valid defence. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 04 Dec 17 5.23pm

Originally posted by wordup

Trump lawyer claims the "President cannot obstruct justice" [Link]

Explains a lot, if your lawyer doesn't understand how the law works. The US legal system would be absurd to approve this as a valid defence.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Sheks Crows Eye Virginia 04 Dec 17 5.30pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston That's good growth. It's been growing like that for a while now (hint: since Obama cleaned up Bush's mess). Bush's mess, lol!

Sheks Crows Eye

Virginia 04 Dec 17 5.30pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

That's good growth. It's been growing like that for a while now (hint: since Obama cleaned up Bush's mess).

Bush's mess, lol!

Ray in Houston Houston 04 Dec 17 5.39pm
Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye Bush's mess, lol! Who's else was it? We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Ray in Houston

Houston 04 Dec 17 5.39pm

Originally posted by Sheks Crows Eye

Bush's mess, lol!

Who's else was it?

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

wordup 04 Dec 17 6.04pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Explains a lot, if your lawyer doesn't understand how the law works. The US legal system would be absurd to approve this as a valid defence. Yes, the core requirement of being part of Team Trump is a willingness to kiss ass to a degree that's divorced from facts and reality. Actually knowing how to do your job is very much secondary.

wordup

04 Dec 17 6.04pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Explains a lot, if your lawyer doesn't understand how the law works. The US legal system would be absurd to approve this as a valid defence.

Yes, the core requirement of being part of Team Trump is a willingness to kiss ass to a degree that's divorced from facts and reality. Actually knowing how to do your job is very much secondary.

Kermit8 Hevon 04 Dec 17 6.39pm
Lock him up, lock him up, lock him up.... Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 04 Dec 17 6.39pm

Lock him up, lock him up, lock him up....

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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