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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 serial thriller  The Promised Land 19 Jun 17 2.07pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Codswallop. Wage stagnation is largely due to immigration. You can mostly blame Mr Blair for that. Terror attacks? Mr Blair can take a fair chunk of blame for the environment we are now in. It is funny that you blame the Tories for the actions of Islamists. Very funny. There is no dismantling of the NHS. That is age old lefty spin. There is only a recognition that it can't continue as it is. Mr Blair did plenty to damage the NHS. And Cabinet infighting? At least the Tories broadly support that own leader. Had Corbyn not polled better than expected he would have been publicly vilified by most of his party by now. I'm honestly not going to bother with most of your post as you are now, for the first time in a while, clearly on the fringe side of public opinion. But it is very interesting that, on the day where a Fascist has mowed down innocent Muslims, you continue to conflate terrorism with Islam.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 19 Jun 17 2.30pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I'm honestly not going to bother with most of your post as you are now, for the first time in a while, clearly on the fringe side of public opinion. But it is very interesting that, on the day where a Fascist has mowed down innocent Muslims, you continue to conflate terrorism with Islam. Surely Manchester and London Bridge were Fascist acts too.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 19 Jun 17 3.33pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I'm honestly not going to bother with most of your post as you are now, for the first time in a while, clearly on the fringe side of public opinion. So you think that most people, including you it appears, blame the Tories for Islamist terrorism but I'm the one doing the conflating? BTW, the Tories have a 50 plus seat majority, just in case you had forgotten.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Jun 17 4.20pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I have some sympathy for the 'what about the 48% of the British population' argument. Still, I don't think you can conduct a negotiation using proportional representation. Business isn't done that way. Clearly you never had the misfortune of working as part of a consortium. Oddly this is how a lot of government and defence business is conducted. I've worked with as many as five different businesses as 'partners' to a single client body. I wouldn't recommend it. Originally posted by Stirlingsays
We are a 'first past the post' society so I don't see any sensible argument for remainers to reflect policy when they lost. Whilst I agree, that the ultimately we must have an exit from the EU - I wouldn't say we're a first past the post system per se. We elect to the European Parliament on proportional representation, have a constitutional system in which the narrow divide of this referendum wouldn't have been sufficient to return a majority. I don't think we necessarily have to have MPs who voted for an exit, because we'd be stuffed (given hardly any of the Conservatives, Liberals or Labour MPs were pro-exit). I don't think you could have MPs who stood in the general election as being for a second referendum or reversal of an exit mind. Originally posted by Stirlingsays
So we shouldn't really have joined the common market in the first place....and if we had a government who doesn't agree with the EU we should just leave...and then join back when a EU supporting government comes in....Are you seeing the problem with legitimacy here? Unless you ask the people a direct question you any government can claim a mandate. Yes, we should have joined the Common Market, because people voted for that, and I think ultimately a bit of membership to a greater body makes sense, and can serve to keep things 'honest'. However we never voted for a European Parliament or the encroachment of a EU over a trade body. I think the problem for the Conservatives is that they don't have a democratic mandate to pursue their proposed exit. They can only form a government with the assistance of a NI Nationalist Party, who's interests in supporting the Conservative are purely regional. They didn't get a mandate for a 'hard brexit' from the UK, only a majority at election that wasn't sufficient to return a government, let alone an endorsement of a policy. Particularly given that the Conservatives effectively called the election to establish that mandate.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Jun 17 4.23pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So you think that most people, including you it appears, blame the Tories for Islamist terrorism but I'm the one doing the conflating? BTW, the Tories have a 50 plus seat majority, just in case you had forgotten. Then they should try to form a government with that 50 seat plus majority. They'd be wrong, the Conservatives weren't in power when the UK effectively stepped into the conflict by engaging in Afghanistan (to a very lesser extent) and Iraq. The truly tragic thing about democracy in the UK, is that we have to have a 'Majority government' because we cannot rely on MPs from different parties to work together and compromise towards a solution.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Jun 17 4.26pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Surely Manchester and London Bridge were Fascist acts too. Technically I think most Islamist groups are classed as ultra-conservative, rather than fascist. Although its a moot point of difference. The Iran Government aren't technically Fascist, but ultra-conservative.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 19 Jun 17 4.29pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Technically I think most Islamist groups are classed as ultra-conservative, rather than fascist. Although its a moot point of difference. The Iran Government aren't technically Fascist, but ultra-conservative. What's the difference?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 19 Jun 17 5.03pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
What's the difference? You can always rely on Jamie to call a spade 'an earth-inverting implement'.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Jun 17 5.12pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
What's the difference? At a rough guess I would say the concept of nationalism, and the ideal of the national good. Fascism also really has a tendency to be anti-religious - hence the reason why the Falangists in Spain were distinct from, but allied to the Spainish Fascist political parties. Obviously, Islamists aren't anti-religious. Also finally whilst Fascist traditionally idealise the past, they tend to see themselves as revivalist, where as some Islamist groups almost literally see themselves as recreating a return to the past - rather than incorporating it. Italian Fascism and National Socialism adopted classical elements of national culture including Greek, Roman and paganism. Ultra-Conservatives would reject those influences (well unless they were ultra-conservative pagans I guess).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Jun 17 5.14pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
You can always rely on Jamie to call a spade 'an earth-inverting implement'. I prefer 'manually powered, digging device' as earth inverting is too specific, and would preclude sand. Its also known as a pikey's maul.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| .TUX. 19 Jun 17 5.44pm |
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Originally posted by europalace
The reason the ECB is using QE is to keep the Euro from appreciating even more as that would hurt exports from the Eurozone. The reason the Euro has remained strong is because of huge inward investment by external business. This is the exact opposite to what has happened in the UK since last year where inward investment has virtually dried up on a relative scale. That's why GBP has plummeted - no one wants to invest in an economy that is unsure of where it's going since voting to leave the EU. So, with regards to the EU being a busted flush, that's only what people like yourself actually wish. In reality looking at economies and currencies the reality is that the UK is currently on that road to being a 'busted flush' as you put it. Regarding the UK being 'better out than in', how can you come to that conclusion when negotiations with the EU haven't even started yet? You will only be able to judge the impact of leaving when those negotiations have concluded, not anytime before that. Edited by europalace (19 Jun 2017 7.11am) Sorry, but i stopped reading after this.
Buy Litecoin. |
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europalace  Europe 19 Jun 17 5.46pm |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
Sorry, but i stopped reading after this. yeah, I thought that the term QE might be a bit difficult for you to understand, sorry.
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| .TUX. 19 Jun 17 5.55pm |
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Originally posted by europalace
yeah, I thought that the term QE might be a bit difficult for you to understand, sorry. Quiet 'europalace'? Edited by .TUX. (19 Jun 2017 5.55pm)
Buy Litecoin. |
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| wordup 19 Jun 17 6.51pm |
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My money is on a hard boiled or a scrambled brexit.
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Jun 17 7.14pm |
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Originally posted by europalace
yeah, I thought that the term QE might be a bit difficult for you to understand, sorry. Not at all but you seem to have trouble with messages and answering them as you are only proving what I said about you being a keyboard warrior. Get a grip and answer my messages!
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 19 Jun 17 8.39pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
At a rough guess I would say the concept of nationalism, and the ideal of the national good. Fascism also really has a tendency to be anti-religious - hence the reason why the Falangists in Spain were distinct from, but allied to the Spainish Fascist political parties. Obviously, Islamists aren't anti-religious. Also finally whilst Fascist traditionally idealise the past, they tend to see themselves as revivalist, where as some Islamist groups almost literally see themselves as recreating a return to the past - rather than incorporating it. Italian Fascism and National Socialism adopted classical elements of national culture including Greek, Roman and paganism. Ultra-Conservatives would reject those influences (well unless they were ultra-conservative pagans I guess). Can't say I recognise the UK far right parties in this. The Liberals seems to be the anti-religion party at the moment - well anti-Christian at any rate.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 19 Jun 17 8.47pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
At a rough guess I would say the concept of nationalism, and the ideal of the national good. Fascism also really has a tendency to be anti-religious - hence the reason why the Falangists in Spain were distinct from, but allied to the Spainish Fascist political parties. Obviously, Islamists aren't anti-religious. Also finally whilst Fascist traditionally idealise the past, they tend to see themselves as revivalist, where as some Islamist groups almost literally see themselves as recreating a return to the past - rather than incorporating it. Italian Fascism and National Socialism adopted classical elements of national culture including Greek, Roman and paganism. Ultra-Conservatives would reject those influences (well unless they were ultra-conservative pagans I guess). Would these be the same fascists in Italy who concluded the Lateran Treaty with the Holy See, made Catholicism the only recognised religion and restored Vatican sovereignty via the creation of Vatican City State, and would it also be the same fascists in Spain who recognised only Catholicism as the state religion?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 17 6.00pm |
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Doh
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