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chris123 hove actually 19 Dec 19 10.04am
Originally posted by johnno42000 Personally I like Jess Phillips but she has criticised Corbyn and is to the centre of the Party so Momentum would need to be challenged and beaten. If Kinnock can do what his dad did and take on and beat the far left then he would be a good choice. A few others Andy Burnham, Caroline Flint and Dan Jarvis. It'll be hard for any new leader but I believe that, as BJ said, votes have been lent and anything lent can be regained. I believe both Brexit and Corbyn (rightly or wrongly) had massive negative impacts for the Labour vote and with both these things gone (hopefully) by the time of the next election it is just about possible for Labour to make serious inroads if (and it is a big if) they can get their act together. I agree on Andy Burnham - the Labour leadership process seems like it could do with an overhaul - they don't have a deputy either.

chris123

hove actually 19 Dec 19 10.04am

Originally posted by johnno42000

Personally I like Jess Phillips but she has criticised Corbyn and is to the centre of the Party so Momentum would need to be challenged and beaten.

If Kinnock can do what his dad did and take on and beat the far left then he would be a good choice.

A few others Andy Burnham, Caroline Flint and Dan Jarvis.

It'll be hard for any new leader but I believe that, as BJ said, votes have been lent and anything lent can be regained.

I believe both Brexit and Corbyn (rightly or wrongly) had massive negative impacts for the Labour vote and with both these things gone (hopefully) by the time of the next election it is just about possible for Labour to make serious inroads if (and it is a big if) they can get their act together.

I agree on Andy Burnham - the Labour leadership process seems like it could do with an overhaul - they don't have a deputy either.

Stirlingsays 19 Dec 19 10.09am
I strongly dislike Jess Phillips. A censorship loving man hating feminist. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Dec 19 10.09am

I strongly dislike Jess Phillips.

A censorship loving man hating feminist.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Dec 19 8.31am
They should just draw straws. Short straw has to be leader for next five years. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Dec 19 8.31am

They should just draw straws. Short straw has to be leader for next five years.

Red and Blue Army!

Badger11 Beckenham 20 Dec 19 8.59am
Originally posted by ASCPFC They should just draw straws. Short straw has to be leader for next five years. You could be right it's the Alex Ferguson syndrome. You don't want to the person who takes over from Corbyn* but the person after that. Unless the Tories really screw up they should win in 5 years with Boris. It will take Labour that time to sort out it's internal issues and get rid of the nasty element. The leader that takes over after that would have clean hands and not be associated with Corbyn his nastiness and failure. *At least Sir Alex was a success. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 20 Dec 19 8.59am

Originally posted by ASCPFC

They should just draw straws. Short straw has to be leader for next five years.

You could be right it's the Alex Ferguson syndrome. You don't want to the person who takes over from Corbyn* but the person after that.

Unless the Tories really screw up they should win in 5 years with Boris. It will take Labour that time to sort out it's internal issues and get rid of the nasty element. The leader that takes over after that would have clean hands and not be associated with Corbyn his nastiness and failure.

*At least Sir Alex was a success.

One more point

serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 9.52am
I know people will call me deluded for this but feel like this site needs a bit of balance so here's the view from a Corbynite perspective... Corbyn was elected Labour leader 4 years ago. His task as set out in his leadership pitch was to democratize the party and turn the tide of unrelenting neoliberalism in this country. To an extent he succeeded, but of course the election was a disaster. However, many including myself would say that in a political climate of near complete supplication to billionaires, media barons and entrenched elites, it was too ambitious to assume all would be realised within 4 years, regardless of if the election was won or not. So what's the choice now? Back to mediocre PR savvy types who look good and wear nice suits, or invest in the political project that the Labour Party was originally set up for? More work needs to be done on the ground. Momentum needs to become an active group in aiding food banks, homeless shelters, political education classes and promoting unionisation. And the leader needs to be someone who can harness the biggest political movement in Western Europe as well as winning trust of millions who have lost faith in labour over the past 20 years. I quite like Clive Lewis personally. One final point: the election did highlight the sharp generational divide in our society which is surely promising for Labour going forward. Think Lewis would be a good spokesperson for those people, and he's ex military so should be able to take the pounding Murdoch et al will inevitably give him. Edited by serial thriller (20 Dec 2019 9.54am) If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

serial thriller

The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 9.52am

I know people will call me deluded for this but feel like this site needs a bit of balance so here's the view from a Corbynite perspective...

Corbyn was elected Labour leader 4 years ago. His task as set out in his leadership pitch was to democratize the party and turn the tide of unrelenting neoliberalism in this country.

To an extent he succeeded, but of course the election was a disaster. However, many including myself would say that in a political climate of near complete supplication to billionaires, media barons and entrenched elites, it was too ambitious to assume all would be realised within 4 years, regardless of if the election was won or not.

So what's the choice now? Back to mediocre PR savvy types who look good and wear nice suits, or invest in the political project that the Labour Party was originally set up for? More work needs to be done on the ground. Momentum needs to become an active group in aiding food banks, homeless shelters, political education classes and promoting unionisation. And the leader needs to be someone who can harness the biggest political movement in Western Europe as well as winning trust of millions who have lost faith in labour over the past 20 years.

I quite like Clive Lewis personally. One final point: the election did highlight the sharp generational divide in our society which is surely promising for Labour going forward. Think Lewis would be a good spokesperson for those people, and he's ex military so should be able to take the pounding Murdoch et al will inevitably give him.

Edited by serial thriller (20 Dec 2019 9.54am)

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Midlands Eagle 20 Dec 19 10.38am
Originally posted by serial thriller the election did highlight the sharp generational divide in our society which is surely promising for Labour going forward. How much of that was to do with Corbyn's promise to scrap tuition fees and write off existing debts?

Midlands Eagle

20 Dec 19 10.38am

Originally posted by serial thriller

the election did highlight the sharp generational divide in our society which is surely promising for Labour going forward.

How much of that was to do with Corbyn's promise to scrap tuition fees and write off existing debts?

W12 20 Dec 19 12.42pm
Originally posted by serial thriller His task as set out in his leadership pitch was to democratize the party and turn the tide of unrelenting neoliberalism in this country. Edited by serial thriller (20 Dec 2019 9.54am) The fact that Labour and lefties in general think that both supporting the EU and promoting mass immigration is somehow in step with this aim is tragic.

W12 20 Dec 19 12.42pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

His task as set out in his leadership pitch was to democratize the party and turn the tide of unrelenting neoliberalism in this country.

Edited by serial thriller (20 Dec 2019 9.54am)

The fact that Labour and lefties in general think that both supporting the EU and promoting mass immigration is somehow in step with this aim is tragic.

W12 20 Dec 19 12.48pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I strongly dislike Jess Phillips. A censorship loving man hating feminist. And she's on the moderate side of the party.

W12 20 Dec 19 12.48pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I strongly dislike Jess Phillips.

A censorship loving man hating feminist.

And she's on the moderate side of the party.

serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 12.49pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle How much of that was to do with Corbyn's promise to scrap tuition fees and write off existing debts? I think it's oversimplifying just to put it only down to that. For young people, climate change, tackling vulture landlords and austerity were massive issurs, and obviously they affect young people more than the old. And for older people, clearly the arguments about Corbyn's past with particular organisations and support for socialism were less popular. And obviously Brexit was a bigger issue as well. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

serial thriller

The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 12.49pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

How much of that was to do with Corbyn's promise to scrap tuition fees and write off existing debts?

I think it's oversimplifying just to put it only down to that. For young people, climate change, tackling vulture landlords and austerity were massive issurs, and obviously they affect young people more than the old.

And for older people, clearly the arguments about Corbyn's past with particular organisations and support for socialism were less popular. And obviously Brexit was a bigger issue as well.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 12.56pm
Originally posted by W12 The fact that Labour and lefties in general think that both supporting the EU and promoting mass immigration is somehow in step with this aim is tragic. Well first, I think many of us on the left have always been critical of the EU on this front. We just also recognise that international trade deals with America and China are just as likely to curtail our sovereignty as those done with the EU. Second, migration is the argument which gives the establishment the most glee. It is in their interest, because as profit makers, migrants bring in the least money to a private based system. And of course it is the perfect scapegoat for the inneficiencies of the NHS, even when those inefficiencies are made so much worse when pharmaceuticals and private health companies become involved, as has happened. Just blame migrants, and very few people will look at the actual facts. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

serial thriller

The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 12.56pm

Originally posted by W12

The fact that Labour and lefties in general think that both supporting the EU and promoting mass immigration is somehow in step with this aim is tragic.

Well first, I think many of us on the left have always been critical of the EU on this front. We just also recognise that international trade deals with America and China are just as likely to curtail our sovereignty as those done with the EU.

Second, migration is the argument which gives the establishment the most glee. It is in their interest, because as profit makers, migrants bring in the least money to a private based system. And of course it is the perfect scapegoat for the inneficiencies of the NHS, even when those inefficiencies are made so much worse when pharmaceuticals and private health companies become involved, as has happened. Just blame migrants, and very few people will look at the actual facts.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

W12 20 Dec 19 1.23pm
Originally posted by serial thriller Well first, I think many of us on the left have always been critical of the EU on this front. We just also recognise that international trade deals with America and China are just as likely to curtail our sovereignty as those done with the EU. Second, migration is the argument which gives the establishment the most glee. It is in their interest, because as profit makers, migrants bring in the least money to a private based system. And of course it is the perfect scapegoat for the inneficiencies of the NHS, even when those inefficiencies are made so much worse when pharmaceuticals and private health companies become involved, as has happened. Just blame migrants, and very few people will look at the actual facts. Trying to deliberately Conflate trade deals with handing over of sovereignty to a foreign, un-elected and undemocratic power is clearly nonsense. The reason people wanted to leave the EU is because it's no longer just a trade organisation (and probably never intended to be). In fact it's the essence of neo liberalism. Your second point is unclear. Who is "the establishment" in this context? Are you saying this "establishment" is somehow anti immigration? Is it due to "inefficiency" that we continue to increase the NHS funding or the fact we add an extra 500,000 people a year whilst the native population shrinks? In your own words they "bring in the least money" so who is paying their share other than through taxes on normal working people and endless borrowing and national debt? Edited by W12 (20 Dec 2019 1.25pm)

W12 20 Dec 19 1.23pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

Trying to deliberately Conflate trade deals with handing over of sovereignty to a foreign, un-elected and undemocratic power is clearly nonsense. The reason people wanted to leave the EU is because it's no longer just a trade organisation (and probably never intended to be). In fact it's the essence of neo liberalism.

Your second point is unclear. Who is "the establishment" in this context? Are you saying this "establishment" is somehow anti immigration? Is it due to "inefficiency" that we continue to increase the NHS funding or the fact we add an extra 500,000 people a year whilst the native population shrinks? In your own words they "bring in the least money" so who is paying their share other than through taxes on normal working people and endless borrowing and national debt?

Edited by W12 (20 Dec 2019 1.25pm)

serial thriller The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 2.24pm
Originally posted by W12 Trying to deliberately Conflate trade deals with handing over of sovereignty to a foreign, un-elected and undemocratic power is clearly nonsense. The reason people wanted to leave the EU is because it's no longer just a trade organisation (and probably never intended to be). In fact it's the essence of neo liberalism. Your second point is unclear. Who is "the establishment" in this context? Are you saying this "establishment" is somehow anti immigration? Is it due to "inefficiency" that we continue to increase the NHS funding or the fact we add an extra 500,000 people a year whilst the native population shrinks? In your own words they "bring in the least money" so who is paying their share other than through taxes on normal working people and endless borrowing and national debt? Edited by W12 (20 Dec 2019 1.25pm) Look at who has been pushing the anti migrants, pro Brexit narrative the most. Jacob Rees Mogg. A founder of Somerset capital which seeks to make millions off Brexit either way in speculation. Aaron Banks. Another venture capitalist has on record accepted business opportunities from the Russians in return for funding vote leave. Viscount Lord Rothemere, the hereditary owner of media company which runs the Daily mail, who leaves his money in offshore tax havens. Nigel Farage, another former trader who left the Tories and set up UKIP because of his anger at EU regulations in finance. Boris Johnson, an old etonian who has written in sympathy of the EU (when he thought it would further his political career), in support of May's deal (when he thought it would further his political career) for no deal (when he thought it would further his political career) and in support of his own deal (you get the picture). If you genuinely believe that the establishment is corrupt and f***ing over the ordinary person in this cou try then good luck to you. But if you think Brexit will solve it, I fear you're in for a major disappointment... If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

serial thriller

The Promised Land 20 Dec 19 2.24pm

Originally posted by W12

Edited by W12 (20 Dec 2019 1.25pm)

Look at who has been pushing the anti migrants, pro Brexit narrative the most.

Jacob Rees Mogg. A founder of Somerset capital which seeks to make millions off Brexit either way in speculation.

Aaron Banks. Another venture capitalist has on record accepted business opportunities from the Russians in return for funding vote leave.

Viscount Lord Rothemere, the hereditary owner of media company which runs the Daily mail, who leaves his money in offshore tax havens.

Nigel Farage, another former trader who left the Tories and set up UKIP because of his anger at EU regulations in finance.

Boris Johnson, an old etonian who has written in sympathy of the EU (when he thought it would further his political career), in support of May's deal (when he thought it would further his political career) for no deal (when he thought it would further his political career) and in support of his own deal (you get the picture).

If you genuinely believe that the establishment is corrupt and f***ing over the ordinary person in this cou try then good luck to you. But if you think Brexit will solve it, I fear you're in for a major disappointment...

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Mapletree Croydon 20 Dec 19 2.45pm
Originally posted by serial thriller We just also recognise that international trade deals with America and China are just as likely to curtail our sovereignty as those done with the EU. This is exactly the point The Americans in particular wield power very directly over any business with which they trade. They levy massive fines to enforce compliance with their political and tax regimes. They also fight dirty in commercial wars, using the power of the State to support their big business interests. We shall become less independent for sure in the next few years.

Mapletree

Croydon 20 Dec 19 2.45pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

We just also recognise that international trade deals with America and China are just as likely to curtail our sovereignty as those done with the EU.

This is exactly the point

The Americans in particular wield power very directly over any business with which they trade. They levy massive fines to enforce compliance with their political and tax regimes. They also fight dirty in commercial wars, using the power of the State to support their big business interests. We shall become less independent for sure in the next few years.

Lyons550 Shirley 20 Dec 19 3.12pm
Originally posted by cryrst I reckon GDP is top of your shower bank Clearly..... The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 20 Dec 19 3.12pm

Originally posted by cryrst

I reckon GDP is top of your shower bank

Clearly.....

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

W12 20 Dec 19 3.14pm
Originally posted by serial thriller Look at who has been pushing the anti migrants, pro Brexit narrative the most. Jacob Rees Mogg. A founder of Somerset capital which seeks to make millions off Brexit either way in speculation. Aaron Banks. Another venture capitalist has on record accepted business opportunities from the Russians in return for funding vote leave. Viscount Lord Rothemere, the hereditary owner of media company which runs the Daily mail, who leaves his money in offshore tax havens. Nigel Farage, another former trader who left the Tories and set up UKIP because of his anger at EU regulations in finance. Boris Johnson, an old etonian who has written in sympathy of the EU (when he thought it would further his political career), in support of May's deal (when he thought it would further his political career) for no deal (when he thought it would further his political career) and in support of his own deal (you get the picture). If you genuinely believe that the establishment is corrupt and f***ing over the ordinary person in this cou try then good luck to you. But if you think Brexit will solve it, I fear you're in for a major disappointment... The wealth and power of these people is wholly insignificant when compared to the power of the global corporations, organisations (EU, UN), NGO's and individuals pushing globalization and "free movement". George Soros alone or any of the big tech companies could buy all those people out combined with their small change. What have any of the above people even done to support a significant reduction in immigration anyway? Your deluded. Only Nigel Farage has even had the guts to come out and say it needs to be significantly reduced. Everyone else is just saying it needs to be "controlled" which I disagree with. I don't blame the immigrants, I blame people like you.

W12 20 Dec 19 3.14pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

Look at who has been pushing the anti migrants, pro Brexit narrative the most.

Jacob Rees Mogg. A founder of Somerset capital which seeks to make millions off Brexit either way in speculation.

Aaron Banks. Another venture capitalist has on record accepted business opportunities from the Russians in return for funding vote leave.

Viscount Lord Rothemere, the hereditary owner of media company which runs the Daily mail, who leaves his money in offshore tax havens.

Nigel Farage, another former trader who left the Tories and set up UKIP because of his anger at EU regulations in finance.

The wealth and power of these people is wholly insignificant when compared to the power of the global corporations, organisations (EU, UN), NGO's and individuals pushing globalization and "free movement". George Soros alone or any of the big tech companies could buy all those people out combined with their small change. What have any of the above people even done to support a significant reduction in immigration anyway? Your deluded. Only Nigel Farage has even had the guts to come out and say it needs to be significantly reduced. Everyone else is just saying it needs to be "controlled" which I disagree with.

I don't blame the immigrants, I blame people like you.

Lyons550 Shirley 20 Dec 19 3.15pm
Originally posted by serial thriller I know people will call me deluded for this but feel like this site needs a bit of balance so here's the view from a Corbynite perspective... Edited by serial thriller (20 Dec 2019 9.54am) I never had you down as being a Corbynite Serial? The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 20 Dec 19 3.15pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

I know people will call me deluded for this but feel like this site needs a bit of balance so here's the view from a Corbynite perspective...

Edited by serial thriller (20 Dec 2019 9.54am)

I never had you down as being a Corbynite Serial?

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550 Shirley 20 Dec 19 3.20pm
Originally posted by serial thriller I think it's oversimplifying just to put it only down to that. For young people, climate change, tackling vulture landlords and austerity were massive issurs, and obviously they affect young people more than the old. And for older people, clearly the arguments about Corbyn's past with particular organisations and support for socialism were less popular. And obviously Brexit was a bigger issue as well. All of which will have started to be addressed or even dealt with by the time Labour get another sniff...young voters grow into tax paying workers for the most part, as such the hold that Labour may well have on that demographic...remains firmly with that demographic... The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 20 Dec 19 3.20pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

I think it's oversimplifying just to put it only down to that. For young people, climate change, tackling vulture landlords and austerity were massive issurs, and obviously they affect young people more than the old.

And for older people, clearly the arguments about Corbyn's past with particular organisations and support for socialism were less popular. And obviously Brexit was a bigger issue as well.

All of which will have started to be addressed or even dealt with by the time Labour get another sniff...young voters grow into tax paying workers for the most part, as such the hold that Labour may well have on that demographic...remains firmly with that demographic...

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Badger11 Beckenham 20 Dec 19 3.40pm
As this is the season of goodwill for once I will say something nice about Labour. Sheila Forgarty just interviewed Darren Jones MP for Bristol North, I hadn't heard of him. My gut reaction was where were you during the GE (meant as a compliment). He didn't waffle or duck questions and talked a lot of sense. He sees the big forthcoming issues from the fallout of Brexit as technology and climate change and is very keen on proper apprenticeships in those areas. Blamed Corbyn for the loss but was keen for the party to move on. If Labour had put him up as a spokesperson they would have done a lot better. One to watch for the future. [Link] Edited by Badger11 (20 Dec 2019 3.40pm) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 20 Dec 19 3.40pm

As this is the season of goodwill for once I will say something nice about Labour.

Sheila Forgarty just interviewed Darren Jones MP for Bristol North, I hadn't heard of him.

My gut reaction was where were you during the GE (meant as a compliment). He didn't waffle or duck questions and talked a lot of sense. He sees the big forthcoming issues from the fallout of Brexit as technology and climate change and is very keen on proper apprenticeships in those areas. Blamed Corbyn for the loss but was keen for the party to move on.

If Labour had put him up as a spokesperson they would have done a lot better. One to watch for the future.

[Link]

Edited by Badger11 (20 Dec 2019 3.40pm)

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 20 Dec 19 4.02pm
Well my peace and goodwill to all men didn't last long. John McDonnell has told shadow cabinet colleagues to stop asking him "are you alright?", telling them: "Normally when a socialist revolution fails they all get taken to a football stadium and shot, at least that hasn’t happened this time.” No John and when the socialist revolution succeeds the other lot are taken to a football stadium and shot. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 20 Dec 19 4.02pm

Well my peace and goodwill to all men didn't last long.

John McDonnell has told shadow cabinet colleagues to stop asking him "are you alright?", telling them:

"Normally when a socialist revolution fails they all get taken to a football stadium and shot, at least that hasn’t happened this time.”

No John and when the socialist revolution succeeds the other lot are taken to a football stadium and shot.

One more point

serial thriller The Promised Land 21 Dec 19 3.57am
Originally posted by W12 The wealth and power of these people is wholly insignificant when compared to the power of the global corporations, organisations (EU, UN), NGO's and individuals pushing globalization and "free movement". George Soros alone or any of the big tech companies could buy all those people out combined with their small change. What have any of the above people even done to support a significant reduction in immigration anyway? Your deluded. Only Nigel Farage has even had the guts to come out and say it needs to be significantly reduced. Everyone else is just saying it needs to be "controlled" which I disagree with. I don't blame the immigrants, I blame people like you. And I will take your blame and wear it with pride. Remember that there is no comfortable side of the fence to be on regarding immigration. On my side, you get hounded as unpatriotic, out of touch and complicit with some grand elitist project of free movement. But on your side, remember that every time you blame migrants and call for harsher borders, it has a very real impact on the lives of thousands of the most vulnerable people in the world. The numbers fleeing war zones and climate breakdown are rising, and as the US, Europe (Yes, Europe too) and other areas of the developed world harden in their determination not to admit asylum seekers, more and more will look for alternative methods of survival, and more and more will die. Remember that this could easily be us one day. Our grandparents did the same, did they not, fleeing the blitz by seeking refuge in the countryside thanks to the benevolence of strangers? We blame migrants because they are largely voiceless and thus make for easy scapegoats. Then when they wash up dead on our shores we see no link and blame them again. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

serial thriller

The Promised Land 21 Dec 19 3.57am

Originally posted by W12

I don't blame the immigrants, I blame people like you.

And I will take your blame and wear it with pride.

Remember that there is no comfortable side of the fence to be on regarding immigration. On my side, you get hounded as unpatriotic, out of touch and complicit with some grand elitist project of free movement.

But on your side, remember that every time you blame migrants and call for harsher borders, it has a very real impact on the lives of thousands of the most vulnerable people in the world. The numbers fleeing war zones and climate breakdown are rising, and as the US, Europe (Yes, Europe too) and other areas of the developed world harden in their determination not to admit asylum seekers, more and more will look for alternative methods of survival, and more and more will die.

Remember that this could easily be us one day. Our grandparents did the same, did they not, fleeing the blitz by seeking refuge in the countryside thanks to the benevolence of strangers?

We blame migrants because they are largely voiceless and thus make for easy scapegoats. Then when they wash up dead on our shores we see no link and blame them again.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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