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June 9 2024 6.02am

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 09 Mar 16 8.31am

Originally posted by Stuk

You do know we're an island right?

Think about it.

That was my point.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Mar 16 9.22am

Originally posted by Rubin

Has anyone in favour of remaining considered how many more asylum seekers we'd be able to take if we didn't have an open boarder to the whole of Europe?

This is definitely agree with. We shouldn't be using Europe as a means of supply cheap labour to corporate interests over national ones. The EU should exist to prevent exploitation of EU citizens.

Immigration and Asylum are very different issues. In the later, I feel we have an obligation to decency and humanity to act. In acting on Asylum we're moving towards improving lives and preventing exploitation, where as with economic migration we're encouraging the exploitation of poorer nations.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Mar 16 9.24am

Originally posted by exitstageright

Being in the EU and being involved in Middle East wars are not necessarily in our national interests.

Can you explain why, given that it was the elected governments that represent that national interest to get involved in both.

What defines national interest?

Problem is, I think the national interest is likely more national corporate interests, rather than what you or I may believe is in the nations best interests.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View paperhat's Profile paperhat Flag croydon 09 Mar 16 9.47am Send a Private Message to paperhat Add paperhat as a friend

one thing that will be interesting to see is that in the days approaching the vote, watch for the likes of the Daily Mail et al printing stories blaming anything and everything on the next boat of refugees to cross the med, not that they'd be manipulating anything of course

 


Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan


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Hoof Hearted 09 Mar 16 10.00am

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Moreover, why the hell has he mixed UK national emigration with refugee intake?

"A Sony TV costs on average £450 in the UK, so you should sell this Turnip for 63p in the US". That's about how meaningless connecting those two numbers are.


LOL.... I am still trying to understand his further response to my query.

 

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exitstageright Flag London 09 Mar 16 10.19am

Originally posted by paperhat

one thing that will be interesting to see is that in the days approaching the vote, watch for the likes of the Daily Mail et al printing stories blaming anything and everything on the next boat of refugees to cross the med, not that they'd be manipulating anything of course

No, we should all limit ourselves to watching and listening to the totally unbiased BBC instead.

 

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exitstageright Flag London 09 Mar 16 10.21am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Can you explain why, given that it was the elected governments that represent that national interest to get involved in both.

What defines national interest?

Problem is, I think the national interest is likely more national corporate interests, rather than what you or I may believe is in the nations best interests.

I agree with you, elected governments do not necessarily always act in the national interest.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 09 Mar 16 10.53am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

This is definitely agree with. We shouldn't be using Europe as a means of supply cheap labour to corporate interests over national ones. The EU should exist to prevent exploitation of EU citizens.

Immigration and Asylum are very different issues. In the later, I feel we have an obligation to decency and humanity to act. In acting on Asylum we're moving towards improving lives and preventing exploitation, where as with economic migration we're encouraging the exploitation of poorer nations.

Quite right. And I voted UKIP to make my objection. I'd like to see Britain take more refugees but more and more on top of the more and more EU migrants is too much.

Local councils have said they are full to capacity. End result is people get placed in expensive B&B's and hotels.

Eastern Europeans are willing to go West to work but their governments who are appalled at our real EU reforms put up barbed wire to hold back refugees. Funny old world.

(our real EU reforms which Cameron really wanted but has conveniently forgotten)

 


COYP

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Mar 16 10.55am

Originally posted by exitstageright

I agree with you, elected governments do not necessarily always act in the national interest.

So what is the national interest, how is it defined?

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 09 Mar 16 11.02am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

So what is the national interest, how is it defined?

Defence of the realm, manage the budget and balance the books, manage interests overseas.

 

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exitstageright Flag London 09 Mar 16 11.24am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

So what is the national interest, how is it defined?

In terms of policies, whatever is the opposite of what the current establishment champion.

 

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View beagle's Profile beagle Flag pom tiddly om pom pom 09 Mar 16 11.46am Send a Private Message to beagle Add beagle as a friend

I've come down on the Brexit side of the fence.

Dominic Lawson, in the Sunday Times, posed the EU question "The test we must apply is: who elected you and how do we get rid of you". A good test IMO.

Even those who favour remaining agree that 'The EU' in its current form needs reforming. 'Reforming' sounds sweet and dandy, but reforming the EU requires a EU consensus - and given reformation may go against self-interest, I can only see the EU ever 'tweaking' itself, as lip-service, and never fundamentally 'reforming' itself.

Cameron's much vaulted 'reform' (yet to be agreed by the EU) is an example of how to dress up chicken-feed as a 3 course dinner.

Paradoxically, the catalyst for meaningful reform may be a Brexit - so as to dis-encourage other countries from following suit.

As for the 'tell me what the UK would look like in 5 years time if we left' question...I haven't a clue... But then I also havent a clue what the EU may look like in 5 years time. It could be great, or a basketcase run by resurgent right-wing nationalist parties.

 


When the time comes, I want die just like my Dad - at peace and asleep.
Not screaming and terrified.
Like his passengers.

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