You post that that you worked in appalling conditions but loved it...maybe your employee didn't piss in your pocket but I have a suspicious it would have made no difference. You would have fetched the stick just as quickly with the extra weight to prove loyalty.

And then post disparaging remarks about Corbyn's style because they don't tie up with the media manager's view of how politics should be done.

The difference between you are people who voted for Corbyn is they don't buy the bulls*** churned out by the press and and advertisers, while it's what you regard as your five-a-day.

Maybe you have got things back to front a bit. Is the media over influencing you? I would put good money on you always buying the washing powder that was advertised just before you went shopping. I bet you wonder around shopping centers smelling of Linx thinking you are about to be mobbed by bikini clad girls!

As usual over-reaction.... You know I wasn't having a go at the families or the victims. I said the Scousers weren't entirely blameless, you said guilty.

Despite what the latest inquiry says, a lot of Scousers turned up without tickets and a lot of them climbed in. They were also drunk too... one local publican testified as such.Palestinians have a part to play in Gaza.

I'm not going over this again - you can "call me out" all you like.

Thought this was a really interesting interview with John McDonnell, who speaks with a lucidity you rarely get in politics: [Link]

It is amazing that you now have the self-proclaimed last communist in parliament as shadow chancellor. It is what he says about housing and workplace democracy which is incredibly refreshing for me: almost enough to convince me to vote for them.

You had a perfectly fair point to make that some people take the attitude that Palestine can do no wrong (the same is true of Israels support but they are a country surrounded by people who don't just want to defeat them but wipe them off the face of the earth. However making that point wasn't enough you had to make the entirely irrelevant link to Hillsborough.

To say they are not "blameless" is to say they are in part to blame. I rather think the family of the victims would feel victimized by what you said.

If you turn up to a game without a ticket why do you get into the stadium? Because the Policeman in charge opened the gates. Similarly it is interesting to note that the people selling the alcohol to drunks are being used as a source of information. This is irrelevant. doubtless the same is true at Selhurst Park every other stadium. So what? On its own it has no impact on the number of people died but smacks of the way the police tried to monster the victims straight after the event. Briefing papers with lies that the Liverpool fans were robbing the dead bodies and other s***. Also more significant was the fact that the stadium had no safety certificate

Maybe I am over-reacting ..but that could have been any one of us that day.

A few things to consider about Hillsborough....

There is video evidence of Scousers climbing walls and turnstiles to get in before the gates were open. Why go to a match without a valid ticket?
The gates were eventually opened to relieve the disorder in the narrow lanes outside the ground which was being fuelled by those who had left it very late to get in to the ground because they had been in the pub getting bladdered and also those without tickets.
Publicans are as much a lawful citizen as you or I and entitled to give information about what they saw that day.

We all know that it has taken decades to get more of the truth that day, but I believe it would give this latest inquiry more credence if it acknowledged that the behaviour of some of the Liverpool fans had a bearing on the outcome. Yes the stadium was badly designed, yes the police were badly briefed and led by Duckenfield, yes the FA should have delayed KO, etc etc., but without the disorder/chaos caused by their own fans the 96 would be alive today.

I believe that linking Hillsborough to Gaza was valid... two situations where most people wrongly absolve the participants of any blame when common sense dictates that they must have played some part in their own downfall.

Come on nick... you know as well as I do that the Israel/Palestine conflict isn't that simple. Being flippant with half truths doesn't help.

There have been attacks on Israel ever since it was formed and a full scale war in 1967.
If you weigh it all up I still believe that Israel is the injured party despite them taking liberties with Palestinian "land" (which to me hardly looks worth fighting over).

Both sides need a mediator but how do you mediate when the Arabs have vowed never to accept Israel which has a UN sanction for its existence?

I'm no staunch Tory (in fact last time out I voted against them), but I genuinely have yet to meet a Tory (and I know many) who is the least bit frightened of Corbyn's leadership. Why you believe it may frighten the press is beyond me.

So do you believe they were worried by Farage?

Edited by npn (20 Sep 2015 12.46pm)