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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 26 Feb 22 4.49pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Even if we could pull down the foundations, which we can't, it would be morally wrong anyway. We are not Putin and shouldn't seek to be. Anyway Putin is about as clear as evidence as you need that you require a competing elites class. At this time that doesn't exist in the west, they all currently rather blindly buy into the benefits of globalism. There is no need for pulling down as social liberalism's own ideas lead to inevitable fragmentation and conflict anyway. Demographical change and time are the only requirements. Look at the UK, the different regions are already in early gestation. Britain's path is set, the damage wasn't politically reversible after the seventies. We are just witnessing the inevitable consequnces of power structures slowly altering. I think the best we can do is peacefully focus upon our families, communities and not living in cities. Let's hope that the world hasn't managed to nuke itself and that the Britain of our descendants is awake to hard nosed realities rather rather than the ideological nonsense of our age. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Feb 2022 3.45pm) Very thought-provoking. I hope those tanks are running on un-leaded fuel, just to minimise damage to the wider environment. It would be nice to see a mix of photos of Russian soldiers, of different genders and persuasions to give credibility to the Liberation scenario presented. Obviously uniforms disguise body forms, but perchance some rainbow bootlaces as an indicator of human solidarity ? "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 26 Feb 22 4.49pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Even if we could pull down the foundations, which we can't, it would be morally wrong anyway. We are not Putin and shouldn't seek to be.

Anyway Putin is about as clear as evidence as you need that you require a competing elites class. At this time that doesn't exist in the west, they all currently rather blindly buy into the benefits of globalism.

There is no need for pulling down as social liberalism's own ideas lead to inevitable fragmentation and conflict anyway. Demographical change and time are the only requirements. Look at the UK, the different regions are already in early gestation.

Britain's path is set, the damage wasn't politically reversible after the seventies. We are just witnessing the inevitable consequnces of power structures slowly altering. I think the best we can do is peacefully focus upon our families, communities and not living in cities.

Let's hope that the world hasn't managed to nuke itself and that the Britain of our descendants is awake to hard nosed realities rather rather than the ideological nonsense of our age.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Feb 2022 3.45pm)

Very thought-provoking.
I hope those tanks are running on un-leaded fuel, just to minimise damage to the wider environment.
It would be nice to see a mix of photos of Russian soldiers, of different genders and persuasions to give credibility to the Liberation scenario presented. Obviously uniforms disguise body forms, but perchance some rainbow bootlaces as an indicator of human solidarity ?

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Feb 22 5.24pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I think this is your perspective, however I just don't think that's going to happen. I support the Ukrainian resistance and Putin has committed a great if predictable wrong, however I'm going to be calculating rather than emotional and just say what I see happening. Putin isn't stupid, invading and occupying parts of Ukraine that don't have a sizable Russian population would be foolish....that's the kind of thing the west did in the middle east. Instead as has been said previously it's more likely that Putin doesn't over extend and that he clears out resistance within borders that he creates. We will support and should support what is defendable, which won't be East Ukraine....there we have to plead for reason not show trials. Over the next two weeks he takes East Ukraine and installs a Russian friendly puppet, the west continues reinforcing Nato borders and continues with its combination of hurt hippy language and seemingly aggressive statements that have no actual committal meat to them....essentially we have Cold War 2. The west uses sanctions but once fighting stops looks to normalise relations due to gas and food prices hurting us just as much as Russia....well more in fact as they have significant reserves and where there is demand for their resources there is supply. Essentially Putin saw the weakness while the west deluded itself. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Feb 2022 3.08pm) I am not a military strategist but would be the logic of attacking the capital if you didn't intend to occupy it? Taking and holding eastern Ukraine would have been a fairly straightforward proposition and, although a bitter pill, one that could be more easily forgiven. Shelling Kyiv, apparently randomly, with pictures going around the world, will linger long in the memory. I think sanctions will now last until Putin is removed. There can be no normalised relations with him. It has been suggested that social sanctions, rather than economic ones, will hurt him harder. Refusing to play any sports or for Russia to host international events, making it plain in the announcements that these are caused only by Putin and will be restored as soon as Russia is led by someone who abides by international law, will drive a wedge. Divide and conquer is a time proven tactic. I agree that ways around the economic sanctions will be found. That's the reality of life. You don't shoot yourself in the foot when trying to kill someone else. You abandon the gun and look for the poison. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Feb 22 5.24pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think this is your perspective, however I just don't think that's going to happen.

I support the Ukrainian resistance and Putin has committed a great if predictable wrong, however I'm going to be calculating rather than emotional and just say what I see happening.

Putin isn't stupid, invading and occupying parts of Ukraine that don't have a sizable Russian population would be foolish....that's the kind of thing the west did in the middle east.

Instead as has been said previously it's more likely that Putin doesn't over extend and that he clears out resistance within borders that he creates. We will support and should support what is defendable, which won't be East Ukraine....there we have to plead for reason not show trials.

Over the next two weeks he takes East Ukraine and installs a Russian friendly puppet, the west continues reinforcing Nato borders and continues with its combination of hurt hippy language and seemingly aggressive statements that have no actual committal meat to them....essentially we have Cold War 2.

The west uses sanctions but once fighting stops looks to normalise relations due to gas and food prices hurting us just as much as Russia....well more in fact as they have significant reserves and where there is demand for their resources there is supply.

Essentially Putin saw the weakness while the west deluded itself.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Feb 2022 3.08pm)

I am not a military strategist but would be the logic of attacking the capital if you didn't intend to occupy it? Taking and holding eastern Ukraine would have been a fairly straightforward proposition and, although a bitter pill, one that could be more easily forgiven. Shelling Kyiv, apparently randomly, with pictures going around the world, will linger long in the memory.

I think sanctions will now last until Putin is removed. There can be no normalised relations with him. It has been suggested that social sanctions, rather than economic ones, will hurt him harder. Refusing to play any sports or for Russia to host international events, making it plain in the announcements that these are caused only by Putin and will be restored as soon as Russia is led by someone who abides by international law, will drive a wedge. Divide and conquer is a time proven tactic.

I agree that ways around the economic sanctions will be found. That's the reality of life. You don't shoot yourself in the foot when trying to kill someone else. You abandon the gun and look for the poison.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Feb 22 5.34pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Even if we could pull down the foundations, which we can't, it would be morally wrong anyway. We are not Putin and shouldn't seek to be. Anyway Putin is about as clear as evidence as you need that you require a competing elites class. At this time that doesn't exist in the west, they all currently rather blindly buy into the benefits of globalism. There is no need for pulling down as social liberalism's own ideas lead to inevitable fragmentation and conflict anyway. Demographical change and time are the only requirements. Look at the UK, the different regions are already in early gestation. Britain's path is set, the damage wasn't politically reversible after the seventies. We are just witnessing the inevitable consequnces of power structures slowly altering. I think the best we can do is peacefully focus upon our families, communities and not living in cities. Let's hope that the world hasn't managed to nuke itself and that the Britain of our descendants is awake to hard nosed realities rather rather than the ideological nonsense of our age. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Feb 2022 3.45pm) Is there nothing that cannot be blamed on "social liberalism"? Maybe it's the reason for climate change and not runaway capitalism? What difference would it have made if the west was run by a series of Donald Trumps and Viktor Orbans? Would they have avoided the war by just inviting Putin to come and help himself? And then demand a % of the spoils for the protection they provided? For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Feb 22 5.34pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Even if we could pull down the foundations, which we can't, it would be morally wrong anyway. We are not Putin and shouldn't seek to be.

Let's hope that the world hasn't managed to nuke itself and that the Britain of our descendants is awake to hard nosed realities rather rather than the ideological nonsense of our age.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Feb 2022 3.45pm)

Is there nothing that cannot be blamed on "social liberalism"?

Maybe it's the reason for climate change and not runaway capitalism?

What difference would it have made if the west was run by a series of Donald Trumps and Viktor Orbans? Would they have avoided the war by just inviting Putin to come and help himself? And then demand a % of the spoils for the protection they provided?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 26 Feb 22 5.44pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I am not a military strategist but would be the logic of attacking the capital if you didn't intend to occupy it? Taking and holding eastern Ukraine would have been a fairly straightforward proposition and, although a bitter pill, one that could be more easily forgiven. Shelling Kyiv, apparently randomly, with pictures going around the world, will linger long in the memory. I think sanctions will now last until Putin is removed. There can be no normalised relations with him. It has been suggested that social sanctions, rather than economic ones, will hurt him harder. Refusing to play any sports or for Russia to host international events, making it plain in the announcements that these are caused only by Putin and will be restored as soon as Russia is led by someone who abides by international law, will drive a wedge. Divide and conquer is a time proven tactic. I agree that ways around the economic sanctions will be found. That's the reality of life. You don't shoot yourself in the foot when trying to kill someone else. You abandon the gun and look for the poison. I'm not a master of maps but I think the capital can fit within the Russian sphere. Others would probably be better at guessing at what part would end up where. I'm not a social liberal but rather a conservative one...which if you are open about has now essentially been persecuted in this country. However, regardless of that it would of course be better for the west if you were correct and Putin fell because this is all very dangerous to all of us. Looking at it unemotionally however I can only state what looks like happening. However, life is like chess and the more moves ahead you project the more uncertain the actual position becomes. To some extent or other it'll affect all of us. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Feb 2022 5.56pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Feb 22 5.44pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I'm not a master of maps but I think the capital can fit within the Russian sphere. Others would probably be better at guessing at what part would end up where.

I'm not a social liberal but rather a conservative one...which if you are open about has now essentially been persecuted in this country. However, regardless of that it would of course be better for the west if you were correct and Putin fell because this is all very dangerous to all of us.

Looking at it unemotionally however I can only state what looks like happening. However, life is like chess and the more moves ahead you project the more uncertain the actual position becomes.

To some extent or other it'll affect all of us.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Feb 2022 5.56pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Feb 22 5.51pm
Originally posted by Matov The West is UTTERLY f***ed. This tweet from the head of MI6... [Tweet Link] Our civilisation has actually come to this. Beyond words. Time to head for the exits. I wondered what that was all about, so I took the time to look. I think it's fair to say it needs to be read in its context. There are much more interesting comments there from Mr Moore on the situation in Ukraine. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Feb 22 5.51pm

Originally posted by Matov

The West is UTTERLY f***ed. This tweet from the head of MI6...

[Tweet Link]

Our civilisation has actually come to this. Beyond words. Time to head for the exits.

I wondered what that was all about, so I took the time to look.

I think it's fair to say it needs to be read in its context.

There are much more interesting comments there from Mr Moore on the situation in Ukraine.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 26 Feb 22 5.52pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Is there nothing that cannot be blamed on "social liberalism"? Maybe it's the reason for climate change and not runaway capitalism? What difference would it have made if the west was run by a series of Donald Trumps and Viktor Orbans? Would they have avoided the war by just inviting Putin to come and help himself? And then demand a % of the spoils for the protection they provided? All the counter factorials are interesting topics but....I'm just in after a three mile walk and I'm already tired after typing what I've typed. I just don't have your energy levels. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Feb 22 5.52pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Is there nothing that cannot be blamed on "social liberalism"?

Maybe it's the reason for climate change and not runaway capitalism?

All the counter factorials are interesting topics but....I'm just in after a three mile walk and I'm already tired after typing what I've typed.

I just don't have your energy levels.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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chris123 hove actually 26 Feb 22 6.13pm
Originally posted by Matov The West is UTTERLY f***ed. This tweet from the head of MI6... [Tweet Link] Our civilisation has actually come to this. Beyond words. Time to head for the exits. 5000 helmets from Germany.
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chris123

hove actually 26 Feb 22 6.13pm

Originally posted by Matov

The West is UTTERLY f***ed. This tweet from the head of MI6...

[Tweet Link]

Our civilisation has actually come to this. Beyond words. Time to head for the exits.

5000 helmets from Germany.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 26 Feb 22 6.17pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays All the counter factorials are interesting topics but....I'm just in after a three mile walk and I'm already tired after typing what I've typed. I just don't have your energy levels. When put into perspective, that is more ground than both Benteke and Luka have covered this season!! Therefore, you should be forgiven. Only joking still love them both albeit they may not be able to do what they may have once offered. In the future, if you are to put your encounters with Wisbech on hiatus Stirling, can I suggest you include a link to the Eastenders theme, to build suspense and appetite for the next installment? Best of health to you both as always! Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 26 Feb 22 6.17pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

All the counter factorials are interesting topics but....I'm just in after a three mile walk and I'm already tired after typing what I've typed.

I just don't have your energy levels.

When put into perspective, that is more ground than both Benteke and Luka have covered this season!! Therefore, you should be forgiven.

Only joking still love them both albeit they may not be able to do what they may have once offered.

In the future, if you are to put your encounters with Wisbech on hiatus Stirling, can I suggest you include a link to the Eastenders theme, to build suspense and appetite for the next installment?

Best of health to you both as always!

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Stirlingsays 26 Feb 22 6.27pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 When put into perspective, that is more ground than both Benteke and Luka have covered this season!! Therefore, you should be forgiven. Only joking still love them both albeit they may not be able to do what they may have once offered. In the future, if you are to put your encounters with Wisbech on hiatus Stirling, can I suggest you include a link to the Eastenders theme, to build suspense and appetite for the next installment? Best of health to you both as always! I'm pretty sure that...similar to EastEnders, most are pretty tired of the format. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Feb 22 6.27pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

When put into perspective, that is more ground than both Benteke and Luka have covered this season!! Therefore, you should be forgiven.

Only joking still love them both albeit they may not be able to do what they may have once offered.

In the future, if you are to put your encounters with Wisbech on hiatus Stirling, can I suggest you include a link to the Eastenders theme, to build suspense and appetite for the next installment?

Best of health to you both as always!

I'm pretty sure that...similar to EastEnders, most are pretty tired of the format.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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PalazioVecchio south pole 26 Feb 22 6.51pm
would you fight to defend the Sh1tshow that is the EU ? cos i wouldnt even bother watching the battles on the telly. Lets not forget who has been the greater aggressor in the last 200 years. Eastern or Western Europe. napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm II , Hitler, Wellington, .... the distance from the capital city to the borders of their empire ? enormous. much further than even the wildest dream of Josef Stalin Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 26 Feb 22 6.51pm

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would you fight to defend the Sh1tshow that is the EU ?

cos i wouldnt even bother watching the battles on the telly.

Lets not forget who has been the greater aggressor in the last 200 years. Eastern or Western Europe.

napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm II , Hitler, Wellington, .... the distance from the capital city to the borders of their empire ? enormous.

much further than even the wildest dream of Josef Stalin

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 26 Feb 22 6.57pm
Major breaking news RE: Romanski Abramovich apparently Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 26 Feb 22 6.57pm

Major breaking news RE: Romanski Abramovich apparently

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Slimey Toad Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 26 Feb 22 7.27pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 Major breaking news RE: Romanski Abramovich apparently That was coming. Apparently he 'introduced' Putin to Yeltsin.
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Slimey Toad

Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 26 Feb 22 7.27pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Major breaking news RE: Romanski Abramovich apparently

That was coming. Apparently he 'introduced' Putin to Yeltsin.

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