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blackpalacefan 27 Jun 16 5.17pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I agree entirely. However, the Tories will not just be negotiating for Britain but for their political future. The only way the electorte will apply pressure is by voting against the main parties. UKIP will potentially do very well out of this. The government and Labour need to recognise what is at stake for them based on the swell of resentment in middle England as demonstrated by the referendum result. Normally protests don't materialise into a shift at general elections but next time I suspect that will be different if the government tries to sell mass immigration repackaged. if the government ignores the people on freedom of movement i agree that UKIP will benefit. its still very difficult for them though due to the FPTP voting system. We are going to have a big shake up though no doubt about it. I dont envy the task boris or whatever the new leader is has in trying to get everyone on the same page.
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blackpalacefan

27 Jun 16 5.17pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I agree entirely. However, the Tories will not just be negotiating for Britain but for their political future.

The only way the electorte will apply pressure is by voting against the main parties. UKIP will potentially do very well out of this. The government and Labour need to recognise what is at stake for them based on the swell of resentment in middle England as demonstrated by the referendum result.
Normally protests don't materialise into a shift at general elections but next time I suspect that will be different if the government tries to sell mass immigration repackaged.

if the government ignores the people on freedom of movement i agree that UKIP will benefit. its still very difficult for them though due to the FPTP voting system. We are going to have a big shake up though no doubt about it. I dont envy the task boris or whatever the new leader is has in trying to get everyone on the same page.

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chris123 hove actually 27 Jun 16 5.41pm
Originally posted by blackpalacefan i know that, but the tarrifs are very significant plus we'd lose access to the single market. That would be a worry for london, as we are the go to trading centre on account of our access to the single market. i can't see the government gambling at any cost to the economy when they personally dont even care about freedom of movement and the country is pretty much split down the centre on the issue. the only way we'll end up under WTO is if the EU tries to force us own that route, so hilariously we'd have them to thank for it rather than our own politicians. this from just now: Rating agency Fitch has said the victory by the “Leave” campaign could damage the Britain's status as a banking hub. The agency also said most sectors would likely see less growth and lower investments due to the uncertainty about future trade arrangements. "The UK's status as a major international banking hub could be damaged as some business lines shift to the EU. Higher import costs and pressure on exports due to the potential imposition of tariffs would be broadly negative for corporates." Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 5.19pm) Well one proposal I read was to get rid of all tariffs and barriers unilaterally and just trade freely.
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chris123

hove actually 27 Jun 16 5.41pm

Originally posted by blackpalacefan

i know that, but the tarrifs are very significant plus we'd lose access to the single market. That would be a worry for london, as we are the go to trading centre on account of our access to the single market. i can't see the government gambling at any cost to the economy when they personally dont even care about freedom of movement and the country is pretty much split down the centre on the issue. the only way we'll end up under WTO is if the EU tries to force us own that route, so hilariously we'd have them to thank for it rather than our own politicians.

this from just now:

Rating agency Fitch has said the victory by the “Leave” campaign could damage the Britain's status as a banking hub.

The agency also said most sectors would likely see less growth and lower investments due to the uncertainty about future trade arrangements.

"The UK's status as a major international banking hub could be damaged as some business lines shift to the EU. Higher import costs and pressure on exports due to the potential imposition of tariffs would be broadly negative for corporates."

Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 5.19pm)

Well one proposal I read was to get rid of all tariffs and barriers unilaterally and just trade freely.

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blackpalacefan 27 Jun 16 5.50pm
Originally posted by chris123 Well one proposal I read was to get rid of all tariffs and barriers unilaterally and just trade freely. id be interested in reading about that. once we start the two year EU exit countdown we're instantly at a disadvantage in any trading situation, putting us in a terrible negotiating position. Heres a NYTimes article on why trade negotiations could be difficult [Link] Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 5.54pm)
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blackpalacefan

27 Jun 16 5.50pm

Originally posted by chris123

Well one proposal I read was to get rid of all tariffs and barriers unilaterally and just trade freely.

id be interested in reading about that. once we start the two year EU exit countdown we're instantly at a disadvantage in any trading situation, putting us in a terrible negotiating position.

Heres a NYTimes article on why trade negotiations could be difficult [Link]

Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 5.54pm)

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chris123 hove actually 27 Jun 16 6.15pm
Originally posted by blackpalacefan id be interested in reading about that. once we start the two year EU exit countdown we're instantly at a disadvantage in any trading situation, putting us in a terrible negotiating position. Heres a NYTimes article on why trade negotiations could be difficult [Link] Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 5.54pm) [Link]
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chris123

hove actually 27 Jun 16 6.15pm

Originally posted by blackpalacefan

id be interested in reading about that. once we start the two year EU exit countdown we're instantly at a disadvantage in any trading situation, putting us in a terrible negotiating position.

Heres a NYTimes article on why trade negotiations could be difficult [Link]

Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 5.54pm)

[Link]

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chris123 hove actually 27 Jun 16 6.20pm
Originally posted by chris123 [Link] Did work - it was a letter in the FT copied below. Sir, Roberto Azevêdo, the Brazilian head of the World Trade Organisation, has given his views to your newspaper about Brexit (“UK would face tortuous trade talks in event of Brexit, says WTO”, May 26). However, he does not seem to realise that the UK’s best “WTO option” on Brexit is to get rid of all the EU’s tariffs and trade barriers unilaterally. This greatly reduces prices to consumers and businesses and would, based on our Economists for Brexit calculations, boost gross domestic product in the long term by 4 per cent. This requires no negotiations with anyone. As for all those trade agreements the EU has negotiated with small countries around the world, they have no effect on our total trade or GDP; they simply divert trade to preferential markets away from other world markets, with no effect on world prices of our products. Again no negotiations are needed to keep these unnecessary agreements. There are countless countries, including many much smaller than the UK, that have no trouble trading freely in this way and there is no reason to believe the UK cannot do the same. Economists for Brexit: Roger Bootle Ryan Bourne Professor Tim Congdon Warwick Lightfoot Dr Gerard Lyons Neil MacKinnon Professor Kent Matthews Professor Patrick Minford
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chris123

hove actually 27 Jun 16 6.20pm

Originally posted by chris123

[Link]

Did work - it was a letter in the FT copied below.

Sir, Roberto Azevêdo, the Brazilian head of the World Trade Organisation, has given his views to your newspaper about Brexit (“UK would face tortuous trade talks in event of Brexit, says WTO”, May 26).

However, he does not seem to realise that the UK’s best “WTO option” on Brexit is to get rid of all the EU’s tariffs and trade barriers unilaterally. This greatly reduces prices to consumers and businesses and would, based on our Economists for Brexit calculations, boost gross domestic product in the long term by 4 per cent. This requires no negotiations with anyone.

As for all those trade agreements the EU has negotiated with small countries around the world, they have no effect on our total trade or GDP; they simply divert trade to preferential markets away from other world markets, with no effect on world prices of our products. Again no negotiations are needed to keep these unnecessary agreements. There are countless countries, including many much smaller than the UK, that have no trouble trading freely in this way and there is no reason to believe the UK cannot do the same.

Economists for Brexit:

Roger Bootle
Ryan Bourne
Professor Tim Congdon
Warwick Lightfoot
Dr Gerard Lyons
Neil MacKinnon
Professor Kent Matthews
Professor Patrick Minford

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ex hibitionist Hastings 27 Jun 16 6.33pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman The problem countries are experiencing economically are because they haven't practised fiscal discipline and the EU haven't monitored it either. They didn't know or care about tax evasion in Greece and looked the other way when the books were cooked by Goldman Sachs when joining the Eurozone. They are now punishing them whilst anyone with capital and transferable skills and probably untaxed Euros in their overseas bank accounts have left the country. It stinks, but the fallout won't end there. There will be more and the whole union will crumble. We're better off out. And I don't know where you get We had the best of all worlds.
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ex hibitionist

Hastings 27 Jun 16 6.33pm

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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

The problem countries are experiencing economically are because they haven't practised fiscal discipline and the EU haven't monitored it either. They didn't know or care about tax evasion in Greece and looked the other way when the books were cooked by Goldman Sachs when joining the Eurozone. They are now punishing them whilst anyone with capital and transferable skills and probably untaxed Euros in their overseas bank accounts have left the country. It stinks, but the fallout won't end there. There will be more and the whole union will crumble. We're better off out.

And I don't know where you get We had the best of all worlds.

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blackpalacefan 27 Jun 16 6.44pm
Originally posted by chris123 Did work - it was a letter in the FT copied below. Sir, Roberto Azevêdo, the Brazilian head of the World Trade Organisation, has given his views to your newspaper about Brexit (“UK would face tortuous trade talks in event of Brexit, says WTO”, May 26). However, he does not seem to realise that the UK’s best “WTO option” on Brexit is to get rid of all the EU’s tariffs and trade barriers unilaterally. This greatly reduces prices to consumers and businesses and would, based on our Economists for Brexit calculations, boost gross domestic product in the long term by 4 per cent. This requires no negotiations with anyone. As for all those trade agreements the EU has negotiated with small countries around the world, they have no effect on our total trade or GDP; they simply divert trade to preferential markets away from other world markets, with no effect on world prices of our products. Again no negotiations are needed to keep these unnecessary agreements. There are countless countries, including many much smaller than the UK, that have no trouble trading freely in this way and there is no reason to believe the UK cannot do the same. Economists for Brexit: Roger Bootle Ryan Bourne Professor Tim Congdon Warwick Lightfoot Dr Gerard Lyons Neil MacKinnon Professor Kent Matthews Professor Patrick Minford Interesting. I really don't know enough about this option so know whether it is feasible or not. Outside of the EU, EU countries are extremely likely to impose new regulations and barriers on UK business, and so that's something else we have to consider. Politicians will decide on our behalf what they feel is best no doubt. Boris Johnson backtracked today and says he ants to remain in the single arket and that immigration wasnt a factor for most voters. That will go down well. Boris Johnson wants to keep the UK's access to the single market and does not believe concerns about immigration played a defining role in the vote to leave the EU. "There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market," Johnson wrote. "British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down." [Link] Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 6.46pm)
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blackpalacefan

27 Jun 16 6.44pm

Originally posted by chris123

Did work - it was a letter in the FT copied below.

Economists for Brexit:

Roger Bootle
Ryan Bourne
Professor Tim Congdon
Warwick Lightfoot
Dr Gerard Lyons
Neil MacKinnon
Professor Kent Matthews
Professor Patrick Minford

Interesting. I really don't know enough about this option so know whether it is feasible or not. Outside of the EU, EU countries are extremely likely to impose new regulations and barriers on UK business, and so that's something else we have to consider. Politicians will decide on our behalf what they feel is best no doubt. Boris Johnson backtracked today and says he ants to remain in the single arket and that immigration wasnt a factor for most voters. That will go down well.

Boris Johnson wants to keep the UK's access to the single market and does not believe concerns about immigration played a defining role in the vote to leave the EU.

"There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market," Johnson wrote.

"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down."
[Link]

Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 6.46pm)

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chris123 hove actually 27 Jun 16 7.09pm
Originally posted by blackpalacefan Interesting. I really don't know enough about this option so know whether it is feasible or not. Outside of the EU, EU countries are extremely likely to impose new regulations and barriers on UK business, and so that's something else we have to consider. Politicians will decide on our behalf what they feel is best no doubt. Boris Johnson backtracked today and says he ants to remain in the single arket and that immigration wasnt a factor for most voters. That will go down well. Boris Johnson wants to keep the UK's access to the single market and does not believe concerns about immigration played a defining role in the vote to leave the EU. "There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market," Johnson wrote. "British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down." [Link] Edite'd by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 6.46pm) It's probably very risky - I only mentioned it as there may be other alternatives to EEA.
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chris123

hove actually 27 Jun 16 7.09pm

Originally posted by blackpalacefan

Boris Johnson wants to keep the UK's access to the single market and does not believe concerns about immigration played a defining role in the vote to leave the EU.

"There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market," Johnson wrote.

"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down."
[Link]

Edite'd by blackpalacefan (27 Jun 2016 6.46pm)

It's probably very risky - I only mentioned it as there may be other alternatives to EEA.

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 27 Jun 16 7.13pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I take umbrage that many infer all remainers are chucking toys! Some of us that voted remain came very close to voting leave as we didn't see the issue as black and white but a blurry grey with pros and cons either way. I for one accept the result and think we should invoke article 50 asap. For what it's worth, I think Labour and Tory parties are in their own ways delaying this. Only Corbyn and probably Farage (as far as I know) are willing to look to carry out the will of the people as quickly as possible. As it is it could be a while. God (not that he exists) knows what the rest of the world must think of the Uk at the moment. We've made our democratically made bed. It's time to lie in it. Edited by nickgusset (27 Jun 2016 2.52pm) is the key word here. "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 27 Jun 16 7.13pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I take umbrage that many infer all remainers are chucking toys! Some of us that voted remain came very close to voting leave as we didn't see the issue as black and white but a blurry grey with pros and cons either way.
I for one accept the result and think we should invoke article 50 asap. For what it's worth, I think Labour and Tory parties are in their own ways delaying this. Only Corbyn and probably Farage (as far as I know) are willing to look to carry out the will of the people as quickly as possible.
As it is it could be a while. God (not that he exists) knows what the rest of the world must think of the Uk at the moment.

We've made our democratically made bed. It's time to lie in it.

Edited by nickgusset (27 Jun 2016 2.52pm)

is the key word here.

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Jun 16 7.34pm
Originally posted by dannyh is the key word here. I thought god not existing was my most salient point cue lambasting
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 27 Jun 16 7.34pm

Originally posted by dannyh

is the key word here.

I thought god not existing was my most salient point cue lambasting

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 27 Jun 16 7.38pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I thought god not existing was my most salient point cue lambasting I really want there to be a God so everyone who took Pascal's Wager can gleefully watch you deniers being tossed into the abyss. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 27 Jun 16 7.38pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I thought god not existing was my most salient point cue lambasting

I really want there to be a God so everyone who took Pascal's Wager can gleefully watch you deniers being tossed into the abyss.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Jun 16 7.42pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt I really want there to be a God so everyone who took Pascal's Wager can gleefully watch you deniers being tossed into the abyss. Better than Barnsley on a cold tuesday night.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 27 Jun 16 7.42pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

I really want there to be a God so everyone who took Pascal's Wager can gleefully watch you deniers being tossed into the abyss.

Better than Barnsley on a cold tuesday night.

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