VAR this weekend

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VAR this weekend

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CrazyBadger Ware 15 Feb 23 9.16am
Originally posted by Dubai Eagle What really irked me was when the pundits started to use the sentence - "he felt the contact so he was entitled to go down" this started some years ago & then seemed to gather momentum, what absolute BS, they are sitting there in this high & mighty position to influence all & sundry involved in the game & they outright say , there was contact so its ok to cheat. Here here! the pundits, most ex footballers, universally condemn diving with one hand, then positively encourage it with the other. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

CrazyBadger

Ware 15 Feb 23 9.16am

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

What really irked me was when the pundits started to use the sentence - "he felt the contact so he was entitled to go down" this started some years ago & then seemed to gather momentum,
what absolute BS, they are sitting there in this high & mighty position to influence all & sundry involved in the game & they outright say , there was contact so its ok to cheat.

Here here!

the pundits, most ex footballers, universally condemn diving with one hand, then positively encourage it with the other.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 15 Feb 23 10.12am
In my view there are a number of central points in play ; * VAR and its usage. It's not enough to shrug your shoulders and say '' human error ''. It's negligence and not doing your job properly. Two different things. Hopefully the Webb arranged pow wow will see some improvement. * The rules, specifically offside and handball. Now grossly over complicated and resulting in more opportunities for officiating uncertainty. * An old one this, but consistency in the application of the laws by the officials. Give players an inch and they will take a mile. And the officials have only themselves to blame for gradually accepting some of what they get away with...foul throws, moving up the line to take throws, taking free kicks in the right place etc etc. A good start would be re establishing the referees authority. This is where the governing bodies need to take responsibility. Punish arguing with the referee. Make it easier for them to concentrate on the play rather than dealing with players antics. Old, Ungifted and White

NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 15 Feb 23 10.12am

In my view there are a number of central points in play ;

* VAR and its usage. It's not enough to shrug your shoulders and say '' human error ''. It's negligence and not doing your job properly. Two different things. Hopefully the Webb arranged pow wow will see some improvement.

* The rules, specifically offside and handball. Now grossly over complicated and resulting in more opportunities for officiating uncertainty.

* An old one this, but consistency in the application of the laws by the officials. Give players an inch and they will take a mile. And the officials have only themselves to blame for gradually accepting some of what they get away with...foul throws, moving up the line to take throws, taking free kicks in the right place etc etc.

A good start would be re establishing the referees authority. This is where the governing bodies need to take responsibility. Punish arguing with the referee. Make it easier for them to concentrate on the play rather than dealing with players antics.

Old, Ungifted and White

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Feb 23 10.30am
Originally posted by NEILLO In my view there are a number of central points in play ; * VAR and its usage. It's not enough to shrug your shoulders and say '' human error ''. It's negligence and not doing your job properly. Two different things. Hopefully the Webb arranged pow wow will see some improvement. * The rules, specifically offside and handball. Now grossly over complicated and resulting in more opportunities for officiating uncertainty. * An old one this, but consistency in the application of the laws by the officials. Give players an inch and they will take a mile. And the officials have only themselves to blame for gradually accepting some of what they get away with...foul throws, moving up the line to take throws, taking free kicks in the right place etc etc. A good start would be re establishing the referees authority. This is where the governing bodies need to take responsibility. Punish arguing with the referee. Make it easier for them to concentrate on the play rather than dealing with players antics. With respect, the controversy from the weekend cannot be categorised as "Negligence". Negligence in legal terms contains the elements of Duty of care,breaches of duty and damages. Undeniably, the actions of the VAR fell below the standards expected and the PGMOL are addressing these issues.

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Feb 23 10.30am

Originally posted by NEILLO

In my view there are a number of central points in play ;

* VAR and its usage. It's not enough to shrug your shoulders and say '' human error ''. It's negligence and not doing your job properly. Two different things. Hopefully the Webb arranged pow wow will see some improvement.

* The rules, specifically offside and handball. Now grossly over complicated and resulting in more opportunities for officiating uncertainty.

With respect, the controversy from the weekend cannot be categorised as "Negligence". Negligence in legal terms contains the elements of Duty of care,breaches of duty and damages.

Undeniably, the actions of the VAR fell below the standards expected and the PGMOL are addressing these issues.

NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 15 Feb 23 10.48am
Originally posted by Willo With respect, the controversy from the weekend cannot be categorised as "Negligence". Negligence in legal terms contains the elements of Duty of care,breaches of duty and damages. Undeniably, the actions of the VAR fell below the standards expected and the PGMOL are addressing these issues. I disagree. If that had happened in my workplace and a senior operative, after training, had got that so fundamentally wrong it would be classified as negligence. Old, Ungifted and White

NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 15 Feb 23 10.48am

Originally posted by Willo

With respect, the controversy from the weekend cannot be categorised as "Negligence". Negligence in legal terms contains the elements of Duty of care,breaches of duty and damages.

Undeniably, the actions of the VAR fell below the standards expected and the PGMOL are addressing these issues.

I disagree.

If that had happened in my workplace and a senior operative, after training, had got that so fundamentally wrong it would be classified as negligence.

Old, Ungifted and White

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Feb 23 11.06am
Originally posted by NEILLO I disagree. If that had happened in my workplace and a senior operative, after training, had got that so fundamentally wrong it would be classified as negligence. This would depend on the circumstances and consequences. In law, negligence is when someone fails to behave with a level of care, which results in 'Damage' to an individual. There is a strict legal definition of "Negligence". I think that is ample 'Legal speak' from me, I have no desire to gallivant down this road any further !

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Feb 23 11.06am

Originally posted by NEILLO

I disagree.

If that had happened in my workplace and a senior operative, after training, had got that so fundamentally wrong it would be classified as negligence.

This would depend on the circumstances and consequences.

In law, negligence is when someone fails to behave with a level of care, which results in 'Damage' to an individual.
There is a strict legal definition of "Negligence".

I think that is ample 'Legal speak' from me, I have no desire to gallivant down this road any further !

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Feb 23 11.28am
Was football better before VAR? Simple question. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Feb 23 11.28am

Was football better before VAR? Simple question.

Red and Blue Army!

Teddy Eagle 15 Feb 23 12.54pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Was football better before VAR? Simple question. Well, it's not better since and it isn't the same. So yes.

Teddy Eagle

15 Feb 23 12.54pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Was football better before VAR? Simple question.

Well, it's not better since and it isn't the same. So yes.

Dubai Eagle 15 Feb 23 1.03pm
I think that your completely right in what you say about re - establishing the referees authority & getting rid of the surrounding cheating / players protest noise, so that they can do their job, then if they get it wrong there is more of a clear case to answer - Originally posted by NEILLO I disagree. If that had happened in my workplace and a senior operative, after training, had got that so fundamentally wrong it would be classified as negligence.

Dubai Eagle

15 Feb 23 1.03pm

I think that your completely right in what you say about re - establishing the referees authority & getting rid of the surrounding cheating / players protest noise, so that they can do their job, then if they get it wrong there is more of a clear case to answer -

Originally posted by NEILLO

I disagree.

If that had happened in my workplace and a senior operative, after training, had got that so fundamentally wrong it would be classified as negligence.

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Feb 23 1.09pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Was football better before VAR? Simple question. Statistics demonstrate that VAR has increased the percentage of correct key match decisions. Whether it has increased the entertainment for spectators is of course open to debate. I have spoken to those who are 'For' and those who are 'Against'. Edited by Willo (15 Feb 2023 1.23pm)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 15 Feb 23 1.09pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Was football better before VAR? Simple question.

Statistics demonstrate that VAR has increased the percentage of correct key match decisions.

Whether it has increased the entertainment for spectators is of course open to debate.
I have spoken to those who are 'For' and those who are 'Against'.

Edited by Willo (15 Feb 2023 1.23pm)

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Feb 23 1.10pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Well, it's not better since and it isn't the same. So yes. I think there have been a few fan polls on this and they largely back it up. The obvious most annoying aspect is having every goal reviewed so that celebration is muted. The atmosphere at football has already been declining for years, plastic fans, plastic teams, and this only makes it worse. There are more issues but a lot are covered on this thread but the looking to rule out goals for no real reason is the main issue. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Feb 23 1.10pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Well, it's not better since and it isn't the same. So yes.

I think there have been a few fan polls on this and they largely back it up.
The obvious most annoying aspect is having every goal reviewed so that celebration is muted. The atmosphere at football has already been declining for years, plastic fans, plastic teams, and this only makes it worse. There are more issues but a lot are covered on this thread but the looking to rule out goals for no real reason is the main issue.

Red and Blue Army!

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 15 Feb 23 1.13pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Was football better before VAR? Simple question. Subjective question, you mean Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 15 Feb 23 1.13pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Was football better before VAR? Simple question.

Subjective question, you mean

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Teddy Eagle 15 Feb 23 1.13pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC I think there have been a few fan polls on this and they largely back it up. The obvious most annoying aspect is having every goal reviewed so that celebration is muted. The atmosphere at football has already been declining for years, plastic fans, plastic teams, and this only makes it worse. There are more issues but a lot are covered on this thread but the looking to rule out goals for no real reason is the main issue. Feels as though there's an element of justifying its existence.

Teddy Eagle

15 Feb 23 1.13pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Feels as though there's an element of justifying its existence.

Teddy Eagle 15 Feb 23 1.14pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Subjective question, you mean Objective question. Subjective answer.

Teddy Eagle

15 Feb 23 1.14pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Subjective question, you mean

Objective question. Subjective answer.

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 15 Feb 23 1.26pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Objective question. Subjective answer. Not quite. Had you given a 'Yes or No' as an option, sure. Even so... I don't think it's possible to have an objective/factual answer to that question anyway. It's a hugely subjective and emotive topic. My view is that it started off worse, is now pretty even, and as its use improves, becomes more refined, faster and less noticeable it will make the game (as a whole, not just focusing on offsides or goal celebrations etc) better than it was before. But it has some way to go. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 15 Feb 23 1.26pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Objective question. Subjective answer.

Not quite. Had you given a 'Yes or No' as an option, sure.

Even so... I don't think it's possible to have an objective/factual answer to that question anyway. It's a hugely subjective and emotive topic.

My view is that it started off worse, is now pretty even, and as its use improves, becomes more refined, faster and less noticeable it will make the game (as a whole, not just focusing on offsides or goal celebrations etc) better than it was before.

But it has some way to go.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Teddy Eagle 15 Feb 23 1.32pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Not quite. Had you given a 'Yes or No' as an option, sure. Even so... I don't think it's possible to have an objective/factual answer to that question anyway. It's a hugely subjective and emotive topic. My view is that it started off worse, is now pretty even, and as its use improves, becomes more refined, faster and less noticeable it will make the game (as a whole, not just focusing on offsides or goal celebrations etc) better than it was before. But it has some way to go. Wonder if they consulted the people responsible for the review systems in rugby and cricket. They seem to work.

Teddy Eagle

15 Feb 23 1.32pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Not quite. Had you given a 'Yes or No' as an option, sure.

Even so... I don't think it's possible to have an objective/factual answer to that question anyway. It's a hugely subjective and emotive topic.

But it has some way to go.

Wonder if they consulted the people responsible for the review systems in rugby and cricket. They seem to work.

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 15 Feb 23 1.46pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Wonder if they consulted the people responsible for the review systems in rugby and cricket. They seem to work. I would imagine they have. Obviously both those sports are very different to Football in that stoppages are frequent and there is more time in which to review decisions and get them right. Hence why moving to a semi automated system for offsides is the right idea as it will dramatically shorten breaks in play, which will only really happen for lower frequency, more complex offside calls. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 15 Feb 23 1.46pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Wonder if they consulted the people responsible for the review systems in rugby and cricket. They seem to work.

I would imagine they have.

Obviously both those sports are very different to Football in that stoppages are frequent and there is more time in which to review decisions and get them right.

Hence why moving to a semi automated system for offsides is the right idea as it will dramatically shorten breaks in play, which will only really happen for lower frequency, more complex offside calls.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Spiderman Horsham 15 Feb 23 2.19pm
Originally posted by Willo With respect, the controversy from the weekend cannot be categorised as "Negligence". Negligence in legal terms contains the elements of Duty of care,breaches of duty and damages. Undeniably, the actions of the VAR fell below the standards expected and the PGMOL are addressing these issues. If the lines were drawn in the wrong place or not at all, that is negligence of duty surely?

Spiderman

Horsham 15 Feb 23 2.19pm

Originally posted by Willo

With respect, the controversy from the weekend cannot be categorised as "Negligence". Negligence in legal terms contains the elements of Duty of care,breaches of duty and damages.

Undeniably, the actions of the VAR fell below the standards expected and the PGMOL are addressing these issues.

If the lines were drawn in the wrong place or not at all, that is negligence of duty surely?

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Feb 23 2.32pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Subjective question, you mean You prefer football since VAR? You have every right to say so. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Feb 23 2.32pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Subjective question, you mean

You prefer football since VAR? You have every right to say so.

Red and Blue Army!

CrazyBadger Ware 15 Feb 23 2.50pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Not quite. Had you given a 'Yes or No' as an option, sure. Even so... I don't think it's possible to have an objective/factual answer to that question anyway. It's a hugely subjective and emotive topic. My view is that it started off worse, is now pretty even, and as its use improves, becomes more refined, faster and less noticeable it will make the game (as a whole, not just focusing on offsides or goal celebrations etc) better than it was before. But it has some way to go. I think you've both arguing for, and against VAR at once there - and I totally agree ! VAR will be good for football, in it's evolved state. Right now it's not fit for purpose. Take it away, get it right, then redeploy it properly. Don't employ a half baked, untested system on your Platinum product, test it out, iron out the kinks somewhere else first. When the Technology is good enough to accurately track and Map ALL elements at play, i.e. ball position, defenders arm position etc, allowing for instant(ish) decisions (which will happen eventially) Then i'll be behind it. right now it's a good idea badly implemented. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

CrazyBadger

Ware 15 Feb 23 2.50pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Not quite. Had you given a 'Yes or No' as an option, sure.

Even so... I don't think it's possible to have an objective/factual answer to that question anyway. It's a hugely subjective and emotive topic.

But it has some way to go.

I think you've both arguing for, and against VAR at once there - and I totally agree !

VAR will be good for football, in it's evolved state. Right now it's not fit for purpose.
Take it away, get it right, then redeploy it properly. Don't employ a half baked, untested system on your Platinum product, test it out, iron out the kinks somewhere else first.

When the Technology is good enough to accurately track and Map ALL elements at play, i.e. ball position, defenders arm position etc, allowing for instant(ish) decisions (which will happen eventially) Then i'll be behind it.

right now it's a good idea badly implemented.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

steeleye20 Croydon 15 Feb 23 3.17pm
The VAR system as it operated last Saturday, in favour of Crystal Palace, is one I support. Please do not tinker with it !!!!!

steeleye20

Croydon 15 Feb 23 3.17pm

The VAR system as it operated last Saturday, in favour of Crystal Palace, is one I support.

Please do not tinker with it !!!!!

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