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May 30 2023 6.46pm

VAR this weekend

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View Uphill's Profile Uphill Online Flag Bedford 14 Feb 23 1.29pm Send a Private Message to Uphill Add Uphill as a friend

I have read this thread with interest and some amusement.

The new 'supremo' Howard Webb is having a 'crisis meeting' of all PL refs and VAR participants today to try and get some unanimity in interpretations and decisions. Lets hope it will improve matters.

I understand there is an increased demand to use the semi-automated VAR used in the World Cup but it seems FIFA have not released it yet for general use.

The VAR decisions were much clearer particularly the graphics.

Nine PL grounds (but not Selhurst) already have the necessary Hawkeye installation to implement the FIFA system. Principally this requires extra cameras and a chip in the ball. Obviously there is a cost element and possible conflict with Adidas balls (used in WC) and Nike's in the PL. This should improve things but it is 'semi automated' which means the human element will still be a factor.

Overall, I don't agree scrapping VAR altogether will be a good thing but it might sharpen up a ref's eyesight at bit and cease relying on the VAR to spot something he hasn't! The West Ham handball being missed by the ref. and VAR was incomprehensible.

Not specifically about VAR but can someone explain to me why a linesman (sorry, ref's assistant) cannot raise his flag for offside until the conclusion of the move? Makes no sense to me.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 14 Feb 23 1.39pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Uphill

I have read this thread with interest and some amusement.

The new 'supremo' Howard Webb is having a 'crisis meeting' of all PL refs and VAR participants today to try and get some unanimity in interpretations and decisions. Lets hope it will improve matters.

I understand there is an increased demand to use the semi-automated VAR used in the World Cup but it seems FIFA have not released it yet for general use.

The VAR decisions were much clearer particularly the graphics.

Nine PL grounds (but not Selhurst) already have the necessary Hawkeye installation to implement the FIFA system. Principally this requires extra cameras and a chip in the ball. Obviously there is a cost element and possible conflict with Adidas balls (used in WC) and Nike's in the PL. This should improve things but it is 'semi automated' which means the human element will still be a factor.

Overall, I don't agree scrapping VAR altogether will be a good thing but it might sharpen up a ref's eyesight at bit and cease relying on the VAR to spot something he hasn't! The West Ham handball being missed by the ref. and VAR was incomprehensible.

Not specifically about VAR but can someone explain to me why a linesman (sorry, ref's assistant) cannot raise his flag for offside until the conclusion of the move? Makes no sense to me.

Delaying the raising of the flag in a situation where the official feels an offside offence has occurred is done to avoid robbing a side of a goal in the case of human error. VAR is here, most optimistically, to correct mistakes; it can only do so if something plays out.

Once a flag is raised, play is impacted, and VAR has nothing that it can review even if the assistant was wrong. Accordingly because VAR cannot award a hypothetical goal, assistants delay the flag — even if it seems obvious to us, they know all too well it is always possible that they’ve seen the alignment incorrectly.

Prior to last season the PL issued a new directive whereby assistants should only delay in cases when there is both a clear goalscoring opportunity and the call is a tight one. If a chance of a goal is not obvious,for instance play is headed out to the wings, or the assistant feels sure of the offside call they will flag immediately.

Edited by Willo (14 Feb 2023 2.26pm)

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 1.43pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Uphill

I have read this thread with interest and some amusement.

The new 'supremo' Howard Webb is having a 'crisis meeting' of all PL refs and VAR participants today to try and get some unanimity in interpretations and decisions. Lets hope it will improve matters.

I understand there is an increased demand to use the semi-automated VAR used in the World Cup but it seems FIFA have not released it yet for general use.

The VAR decisions were much clearer particularly the graphics.

Nine PL grounds (but not Selhurst) already have the necessary Hawkeye installation to implement the FIFA system. Principally this requires extra cameras and a chip in the ball. Obviously there is a cost element and possible conflict with Adidas balls (used in WC) and Nike's in the PL. This should improve things but it is 'semi automated' which means the human element will still be a factor.

Overall, I don't agree scrapping VAR altogether will be a good thing but it might sharpen up a ref's eyesight at bit and cease relying on the VAR to spot something he hasn't! The West Ham handball being missed by the ref. and VAR was incomprehensible.

Not specifically about VAR but can someone explain to me why a linesman (sorry, ref's assistant) cannot raise his flag for offside until the conclusion of the move? Makes no sense to me.

Apparently there are different levels of installation with the automated offsides – chip in ball is not mandatory. Extra cameras are, though.

Re. linesman flagging, it's for tight calls to ensure that whatever decision is made (offside/onside) the phase of play finishes rather than gets stopped prematurely.

Why? In case a player is put through and scores. In the old system the linesman would flag and the ref would stop the game before the goal went in. New system, if the flag goes up once the ball goes in the net, it can be checked and awarded if the lino was wrong. Means in that instance the attacking team isn't incorrectly penalised.

 


oh contrare, said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 98% of people are morons.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 14 Feb 23 1.43pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Delaying the raising of the flag in a situation where the official feels an offside offence has occurred is done to avoid robbing a side of a goal in the case of human error. VAR is here, most optimistically, to correct mistakes; it can only do so if something plays out.

Once a flag is raised, play is impacted, and VAR has nothing that it can review even if the assistant was wrong. Accordingly because VAR cannot award a hypothetical goal, assistants delay the flag — even if it seems obvious to us, they know all too well it is always possible that they’ve seen the alignment incorrectly.

Doesn't that raise the possibility of a player getting injured in attempting to score or prevent a goal which wouldn't have counted anyway?

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 1.44pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Delaying the raising of the flag in a situation where the official feels an offside offence has occurred is done to avoid robbing a side of a goal in the case of human error. VAR is here, most optimistically, to correct mistakes; it can only do so if something plays out.

Once a flag is raised, play is impacted, and VAR has nothing that it can review even if the assistant was wrong. Accordingly because VAR cannot award a hypothetical goal, assistants delay the flag — even if it seems obvious to us, they know all too well it is always possible that they’ve seen the alignment incorrectly.

A tidier explanation.

 


oh contrare, said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 98% of people are morons.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 14 Feb 23 1.45pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

haha.

Such an overreaction

Or a joke.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 14 Feb 23 1.46pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Doesn't that raise the possibility of a player getting injured in attempting to score or prevent a goal which wouldn't have counted anyway?

There is a 'School of thought' that players are no more likely to get injured in these instances than any other times. This does not logically refute the need for a late flag, as injury could take place at any time. This does not seem to outweigh the potential of deserved goals being overruled.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 1.50pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Doesn't that raise the possibility of a player getting injured in attempting to score or prevent a goal which wouldn't have counted anyway?

Yep.

Although rather obviously it also allows the player to potentially score and have that goal upheld, or make a goal saving tackle against a goal that would have stood etc etc etc

It would be interesting to see the stats re. injuries as a result of continuation of play vs. goals scored or saved.

I'd assume that injuries would be the least likely outcome. Goals are also the most important aspect of football... so it makes sense to create an environment where you increase the probability of them being scored.

 


oh contrare, said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 98% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 1.51pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Or a joke.

You tell me. If it was it was extremely drossy

 


oh contrare, said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 98% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 14 Feb 23 1.52pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

There is a 'School of thought' that players are no more likely to get injured in these instances than any other times. This does not logically refute the need for a late flag, as injury could take place at any time. This does not seem to outweigh the potential of deserved goals being overruled.

Agreed

 


oh contrare, said the rabid giraffe whilst brandishing his throbbing member of reason, and twas ever thus.

Did you know? 98% of people are morons.

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 Feb 23 1.58pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

VAR adds nothing to the game, it usually actually takes away from the enjoyment of the game. Scrap it and move on.
It hasn't worked and won't work. Despite high profile errors it still basically repeats the big club/ political favourite narrative that existed already. Argentina kicking everyone around just because a sheikh wanted to meet Messi should have thrown up far greater debate than it did. VAR is simply reinforcing the bias that already exists.
I believe Liverpool have benefitted most from VAR in England which, again, is just more of the same we already had.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 14 Feb 23 2.02pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

You tell me. If it was it was extremely drossy

I have told you. Sorry if it didn't meet your standards.

 

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