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April 1 2023 5.53am

VAR this weekend

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 13 Feb 23 4.13pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

The system used at the WC seemed impressive, with all the money in the game, you have to wonder why those in charge havenít purchased it already.
I have always said, the fans should be able to hear the communication between ref and VAR ( Rugbyis brilliant fir this imo). The fact this does not appear to be on the table does leave it open for accusations of bias or something more sinister

[Link]

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 13 Feb 23 4.25pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Back in the day when VAR was about to come in, I made a comment along the lines of: "all it will mean is that instead of having just 3 officials making at best poor - or at worst biased - decisions, we'll now have 4, 5 or 6 all doing the same thing".

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 14 Feb 23 9.03am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Thatís nothing to do with the Premier League, which is surely what we are discussing

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 14 Feb 23 9.37am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by Dubai Eagle

The interfering with play thing has always been something that irks me - clearly if an attacking player is on the field of play in the opponent's half then he is interfering with play, either directly to receive the ball or indirectly by running interference, giving the player with the ball an option or hoping for a rebound - in any event the defending team has to make efforts to nullify this attacking threat or option -

To me there is some allowance that could be made where an attacker is laying on the floor with injury sustained from a previous attack, provided that player isn't laying in such a position to influence the attack, i.e inside the 6 yard box.

Clarify the rules & get rid of the subjectivity of is he interfering with play or not -

Re. your first paragraph...the Brighton player "nearer to us" than the guy who stuck the ball in was yards offside. How can it be claimed that he's not interfering with play, when he's a clear attacking option (ie the scorer could have let the ball run on to him) and therefore likely to (or actually did) distract the attention of the goalkeeper and/or defenders. The Liverpool goal in the FA Cup tie against Wolves exposed the fallacy of the way offside is applied. The defender leapt to intercept a high/long ball because he knew a Liverpool player beyond him was likely to receive it. He could not possibly have known that that player was yards offside, so he had to go for it. Because the ball glanced off his head, that player miraculously becomes "not offside". It's absolute nonsense.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 14 Feb 23 9.47am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by YT

Re. your first paragraph...the Brighton player "nearer to us" than the guy who stuck the ball in was yards offside. How can it be claimed that he's not interfering with play, when he's a clear attacking option (ie the scorer could have let the ball run on to him) and therefore likely to (or actually did) distract the attention of the goalkeeper and/or defenders. The Liverpool goal in the FA Cup tie against Wolves exposed the fallacy of the way offside is applied. The defender leapt to intercept a high/long ball because he knew a Liverpool player beyond him was likely to receive it. He could not possibly have known that that player was yards offside, so he had to go for it. Because the ball glanced off his head, that player miraculously becomes "not offside". It's absolute nonsense.

Law 11 :

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 14 Feb 23 9.56am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

Thatís nothing to do with the Premier League, which is surely what we are discussing

My 'Link' was in response to a comment that such communication was not "On the table", and I am suggesting that it could well be introduced in the PL based on its trial in the FIFA Club World Cup.

Edited by Willo (14 Feb 2023 9.58am)

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 14 Feb 23 10.14am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Law 11 :

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.

That rule needs to be changed as it is too ambiguous.

A defender attempting an interception which was intended for an offside attacker is different to deliberately playing the ball. The wording presumes a defender is aware an opposition player is offside, in which case they might opt not to play the ball, which is defiant of logic.

Edited by Nicholas91 (14 Feb 2023 10.15am)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 14 Feb 23 10.41am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

That rule needs to be changed as it is too ambiguous.

A defender attempting an interception which was intended for an offside attacker is different to deliberately playing the ball. The wording presumes a defender is aware an opposition player is offside, in which case they might opt not to play the ball, which is defiant of logic.

Edited by Nicholas91 (14 Feb 2023 10.15am)

Currently "Deliberately" is interpreted as making a conscious effort to make contact with the ball and doing so, and if the ball is diverted into the path of an opposition player who is in an offside position and the players scores the goal is awarded.
This is unambiguous.

If the Law is changed to to redefine "Deliberate" depending on circumstances, this could cause further complications and of course further controversy.

In the Wolves game, the defender might not have even seen the attacker behind him and if so this is no different to a player playing a 'Blind' backpass to the goalkeeper which is intercepted by an attacking player in an offside player who runs through and scores.

Perhaps IFAB in time will amend the LAW giving it far more thought than I have at present !!

Edited by Willo (14 Feb 2023 10.46am)

 

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 14 Feb 23 11.23am Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

That rule needs to be changed as it is too ambiguous.

A defender attempting an interception which was intended for an offside attacker is different to deliberately playing the ball. The wording presumes a defender is aware an opposition player is offside, in which case they might opt not to play the ball, which is defiant of logic.

Edited by Nicholas91 (14 Feb 2023 10.15am)

Surely a defender attempting an interception is him attempting to play the ball?
The awareness or not of the defender to the offside attacker is insignificant. If the attacker receives the ball without the defenders touch, then he should (!?) be flagged offside.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 14 Feb 23 11.24am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Currently "Deliberately" is interpreted as making a conscious effort to make contact with the ball and doing so, and if the ball is diverted into the path of an opposition player who is in an offside position and the players scores the goal is awarded.
This is unambiguous.

If the Law is changed to to redefine "Deliberate" depending on circumstances, this could cause further complications and of course further controversy.

In the Wolves game, the defender might not have even seen the attacker behind him and if so this is no different to a player playing a 'Blind' backpass to the goalkeeper which is intercepted by an attacking player in an offside player who runs through and scores.

Perhaps IFAB in time will amend the LAW giving it far more thought than I have at present !!

Edited by Willo (14 Feb 2023 10.46am)

Not the word 'deliberately' the phrase 'playing the ball'. It suggests intent that is made upon knowledge of whether or not a player is onside or not.

If an attacker is offside then there may be no need to play the ball however a defender cannot be in full knowledge of this as a fact and therefore cannot make an informed decision. Even with technology the officials cannot get it right so I don't understand why there is an expectation of the player to behold this information.

If a player elects to attempt to intercept a ball destined and intended for an offside opponent the offside should precede the playing of the ball in the decision making.

If a player intercepts a backpass they are by definition not offside as an opponent has played the initial and critical action affecting the ball, not a teammate.

Edited by Nicholas91 (14 Feb 2023 11.27am)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 14 Feb 23 11.32am Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Not the word 'deliberately' the phrase 'playing the ball'. It suggests intent that is made upon knowledge of whether or not a player is onside or not.

If an attacker is offside then there may be no need to play the ball however a defender cannot be in full knowledge of this as a fact and therefore cannot make an informed decision. Even with technology the officials cannot get it right so I don't understand why there is an expectation of the player to behold this information.

If a player elects to attempt to intercept a ball destined and intended for an offside opponent the offside should precede the playing of the ball in the decision making.

If a player intercepts a backpass they are by definition not offside as an opponent has played the initial and critical action affecting the ball, not a teammate.

Edited by Nicholas91 (14 Feb 2023 11.27am)

so what your Saying is as the intention of the passer is to pass to the offside player, it should be ruled Offside, regardless of the 'active' Status of the receiving player?

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 14 Feb 23 11.35am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

Surely a defender attempting an interception is him attempting to play the ball?
The awareness or not of the defender to the offside attacker is insignificant. If the attacker receives the ball without the defenders touch, then he should (!?) be flagged offside.

A ball destined for what could be deemed to be an onside attacker.

In the event the initial play is a ball to an offside attacker. This is not allowed. A defender cannot know whether or not an attacker is onside and therefore cannot make the informed decision. The 'offside pass' is illegal before anything the defender does.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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