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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Mapletree  Croydon 25 Oct 18 11.45am |
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Ooh. Another member of the East LA massive. That makes you, me and Hrolf.
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 25 Oct 18 12.32pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Because you can bake more pies ? I see, the the magic money tree is back again! You do know the government has a large debt and deficit? Give me some rough figures on how much the extra schools, hospitals and houses etc will cost for the number of EU migrants. Then tell me how much you would put tax up to pay for it all? Just so I will pay more tax so people from Moldova and Lithuania can live here with nice public services. Gina Miller says the NHS needs £4bn a year invested by the government. Should some of that be diverted away? Edited by Penge Eagle (25 Oct 2018 12.39pm)
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| Mapletree Croydon 25 Oct 18 12.47pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
I see, the the magic money tree is back again! You do know the government has a large debt and deficit? Give me some rough figures on how much the extra schools, hospitals and houses etc will cost for the number of EU migrants. Then tell me how much you would put tax up to pay for it all? Just so I will pay more tax so people from Moldova and Lithuania can live here with nice public services. Gina Miller says the NHS needs £4bn a year invested by the government. Should some of that be diverted away? Edited by Penge Eagle (25 Oct 2018 12.39pm) Overall immigrants are net contributors. They use the NHS less and use up less housing, often filling HMOs. They tend to be in prime working age. Don't vilify these people, who largely have been driving any economic growth we have. If the infrastructure doesn't match the workforce that is due to a lack of long term planning and investment. Especially reinvestment of the immigrant dividend.
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 25 Oct 18 1.03pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Overall immigrants are net contributors. They use the NHS less and use up less housing, often filling HMOs. They tend to be in prime working age. Don't vilify these people, who largely have been driving any economic growth we have. If the infrastructure doesn't match the workforce that is due to a lack of long term planning and investment. Especially reinvestment of the immigrant dividend.
We do need immigrants and I have no issue with them. But it should be on the terms of the UK government – not the bureaucrats in Brussels – so it can be managed effectively in terms of social cohesion and public services. It's basic commonsense. Edited by Penge Eagle (25 Oct 2018 1.05pm)
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| Mapletree Croydon 25 Oct 18 1.06pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
We do need immigrants and I have no issue with them. But it should be on the terms of the UK government – not the bureaucrats in Brussels – so it can be managed effectively in terms of social cohesion and public services. It's basic commonsense. Edited by Penge Eagle (25 Oct 2018 1.05pm) Wow, I didn't even spot when Moldova joined the EU. Must keep up. I still think it's a shame they can't have nice public services when they are here like the rest of us though
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| Stirlingsays 25 Oct 18 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Don't vilify these people, who largely have been driving any economic growth we have. If the infrastructure doesn't match the workforce that is due to a lack of long term planning and investment. Especially reinvestment of the immigrant dividend. No, only EU immigrants are net contributors....by about 4 billion. Overall outside immigrants to this country cost us over 120 billion a year.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 25 Oct 18 1.14pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Wow, I didn't even spot when Moldova joined the EU. Must keep up. I still think it's a shame they can't have nice public services when they are here like the rest of us though The argument still stands, even though you love being a smart arse and score petty points. I think it's a shame too but it costs money to fund public services for people around the world. But as long as you're happy to pay more taxes for this and in the meantime, put your kids in your third-choice primary school because the preferred ones are full...
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Pussay Patrol  25 Oct 18 1.47pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
We do need immigrants and I have no issue with them. But it should be on the terms of the UK government – not the bureaucrats in Brussels – so it can be managed effectively in terms of social cohesion and public services. It's basic commonsense. Edited by Penge Eagle (25 Oct 2018 1.05pm) Straight out of the tabloids It is on the terms of UK, we are part of the EU. Freedom of movement is something all members agreed to, it wasn't forced on us
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Mapletree Croydon 25 Oct 18 1.50pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
No, only EU immigrants are net contributors....by about 4 billion. Overall outside immigrants to this country cost us over 120 billion a year. I think you are confusing 'are' with 'were'.
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| Mapletree Croydon 25 Oct 18 1.52pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
The argument still stands, even though you love being a smart arse and score petty points. I think it's a shame too but it costs money to fund public services for people around the world. But as long as you're happy to pay more taxes for this and in the meantime, put your kids in your third-choice primary school because the preferred ones are full... Stirling's point reinforces mine of course The EU immigrants have been net contributors. Sadly, that contribution was not reinvested in providing the infrastructure necessary. In any case, that net contribution group will now be cut off.
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| Stirlingsays 25 Oct 18 1.53pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Straight out of the tabloids It is on the terms of UK, we are part of the EU. Freedom of movement is something all members agreed to, it wasn't forced on us
The referendum result showed the real attitude towards freedom of movement. The remain camp having to near exclusively use the fear mongering in the economic argument to maximise their votes. That angle wasn't on armchair debate, that would have been informed by polling.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 25 Oct 18 1.55pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Stirling's point reinforces mine of course The EU immigrants have been net contributors. Sadly, that contribution was not reinvested in providing the infrastructure necessary. In any case, that net contribution group will now be cut off. What? 4 Billion reinvested...solves what nationally? Also when immigration as a whole is costing you 120 billion you are purely plugging holes in the Titanic.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 25 Oct 18 2.05pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Straight out of the tabloids It is on the terms of UK, we are part of the EU. Freedom of movement is something all members agreed to, it wasn't forced on us I don't read tabloids thank you. The UK agreed it but never asked the people. In 2016 they did and got their answer.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 25 Oct 18 2.12pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
We do need immigrants and I have no issue with them. But it should be on the terms of the UK government – not the bureaucrats in Brussels – so it can be managed effectively in terms of social cohesion and public services. It's basic commonsense. Edited by Penge Eagle (25 Oct 2018 1.05pm) Unfortunately common sense is something that will not penetrate. Posters have pointed out that immigration is massively non-EU.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 25 Oct 18 2.14pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
I don't read tabloids thank you. The UK agreed it but never asked the people. In 2016 they did and got their answer. The next time there is a vote they won't be able to lie through their teeth so easily.
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 25 Oct 18 2.15pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Stirling's point reinforces mine of course The EU immigrants have been net contributors. Sadly, that contribution was not reinvested in providing the infrastructure necessary. In any case, that net contribution group will now be cut off. Firstly, it's inconclusive that EU immigrants are net contributors. One study says EU migrants who arrived after 2001 contributed £1.34 for every £1 took out. But the data also says that figure reduces for the EU migrants who arrived pre-2001. Remember when Tony Blair overestimated the numbers from Poland? So the overall contribution is negligible. And like you say, if there is no extra infrastructure to accommodate the rising population, then that affects all of us in a negative way. Then you have the social cohesion issues too... As for the "net contribution group will now be cut off" that is fake news. Current EU citizens have been told they can stay in the UK. There is nothing stopping the UK from allowing future migrants from any country working here post Brexit. Unless you know something I don't? Edited by Penge Eagle (25 Oct 2018 2.20pm)
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| Mapletree Croydon 25 Oct 18 2.17pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What? 4 Billion reinvested...solves what nationally? Also when immigration as a whole is costing you 120 billion you are purely plugging holes in the Titanic. This is The Brexit Thread. At a time when the indigenous population made a negative contribution of £591bn, the EU migrants made a positive contribution of £4.4bn. So why throw out what appears to be the only population that is contributing. Goodness knows how we are even afloat. It is also interesting that since 2000 European migrants were 43 per cent less likely than native Britons to receive benefits or tax credits.
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| Mapletree Croydon 25 Oct 18 2.23pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Firstly, it's inconclusive that EU immigrants are net contributors. One study says EU migrants who arrived after 2001 contributed £1.34 for every £1 took out. But the data also says that figure reduces for the EU migrants who arrived pre-2001. Remember when Tony Blair overestimated the numbers from Poland? So the overall contribution is negligible. And like you say, if there is no extra infrastructure to accommodate the rising population, then that affects all of us. As for the "net contribution group will now be cut off" that is fake news. Current EU citizens have been told they can stay in the UK. There is nothing stopping the UK from allowing future migrants from any country working here post Brexit. Unless you know something I don't? Edited by Penge Eagle (25 Oct 2018 2.18pm) Net EU immigration is slowing to a halt and is likely to reverse around the time of Brexit. Especially as the UK has been pretty non-specific about how they will be managed going forward. Those most able to contribute are more likely to emigrate and we are already seeing a drain of highly capable people. Maybe you haven't looked for a builder in the past year or so. There are far more hospitable places for EU migrants, where they won't have to join a queue for visas and work permits.
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 25 Oct 18 2.33pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Net EU immigration is slowing to a halt and is likely to reverse around the time of Brexit. Especially as the UK has been pretty non-specific about how they will be managed going forward. Those most able to contribute are more likely to emigrate and we are already seeing a drain of highly capable people. Maybe you haven't looked for a builder in the past year or so. There are far more hospitable places for EU migrants, where they won't have to join a queue for visas and work permits. Well that is all speculation... But IF less people from the EU want to come to the UK post Brexit, which I find very hard to believe, then the UK has the ability to attract workers from all over the world and set its own immigration policies. Not be dictated to by the EUSSR.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 25 Oct 18 2.39pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Well that is all speculation... But IF less people from the EU want to come to the UK post Brexit, which I find very hard to believe, then the UK has the ability to attract workers from all over the world and set its own immigration policies. Not be dictated to by the EUSSR. the UK has the ability to attract workers from all over the world'. You are just not getting it, it is immigration from all over the world that is the problem now, not from the EU. Dictated by EUSSR? You are just desperate.
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