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 Forest Hillbilly  in a hidey-hole 18 Sep 23 9.01pm |
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Were any 'victims' getting paid for their 'stories' ?
"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak |
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YT  Oxford 18 Sep 23 9.27pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You seriously think that rape without physical evidence can be proven after ten years? Any outcome is little more than opinion dressed up with official backing....There is no real way of knowing. As with rape, unless you go immediately to the Police the evidence becomes increasingly shakey.....Ten years and it's unlikely to work in a normally functioning justice system.....though let's not forget that our woke justice system is the one that somehow twisted itself around to winning for Amber Heard....that's how much liberalism has infected thinking in our courts. In my view this is well known and thought through by its establishment actors. The probable result is a damaged reputation based on no smoke without fire and little else.....I don't see careers being destroyed at all. There are too many people, especially in the establishment, who support what is happening....and they can always fall back on 'believe all women' and 'we had five women, who didn't know each other'....leaving out the fact that they went looking for them. Calculated. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Sep 2023 8.12pm) How many of Savile's (I should say "alleged" ) crimes were proven? Was any physical evidence submitted? Edited by YT (18 Sep 2023 9.27pm)
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 23 9.43pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
I cannot recall any statements that reports were made to the police. Indeed the alleged rape victim stated she did not go to the police. Are you saying that unverified accusations are evidence then? Interesting Edited by Spiderman (18 Sep 2023 6.38pm) From memory the alleged rape victim reported it to a rape crisis centre who then alerted the police. No journalist would risk publishing something like this without thorough verification. Their employer would insist on it because they risk a lot if they don’t. Claims for defamation both for slander and libel could result in huge awards. For that reason alone there must be a reasonable presumption of truth. Evidence has to be assessed for reliability. Unsupported accusations are not evidence. Accusations with support are, but they must still be tested and either accepted or rejected. That’s what due process does. Should Brand be prosecuted, which seems likely, and be found not guilty, then his career would benefit considerably. Books and films would be made about it. Even if he is found guilty I suspect that his fan base will keep in a style most of us can only dream about, once he has served any time given to him. He is already crying that this is a conspiracy by the MSM. The next thing will be that it’s a “witch-hunt”. Now where have we heard that before?
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 18 Sep 23 9.52pm |
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Originally posted by YT
How many of Savile's (I should say "alleged" ) crimes were proven? Was any physical evidence submitted? Edited by YT (18 Sep 2023 9.27pm) No, and it all only came out when he was pushing up daisies. Savile was never political was he.....He never attacked the establishment. So the will was never there. I have little doubt that Savile took advantage of his position and was guilty of abuse....I suspect he is far from the only one....but I can't know that as it's all after the fact, I can only suspect it. How much is true and how much isn't or was embellishment can't be tested. In Savile's case a women did go to the Police soon after an alleged offence but was ignored. This doesn't appear to be the case here. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Sep 2023 9.54pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 18 Sep 23 10.01pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
My feeling exactly. Very few mavericks have that kind of power. The last one to genuinely upset the status quo was Farage but only because he spent years campaigning and growing the Brexit support at elections. RB doesn't have a political party or stand for anything in particular apart from pointing out the hypocrisy and greed amongst elites, nothing new in that and plenty of others doing the same thing. He's just not that important to the majority of us. Edited by Badger11 (18 Sep 2023 3.44pm) Perhaps but how many people are?.....That doesn't stop different types of treatment. Brand's Youtube channel has over six and a half million subscribers. When it comes to putting out information he reaches a considerable number of people.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Sep 23 10.14pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Perhaps but how many people are?.....That doesn't stop different types of treatment. Brand's Youtube channel has over six and a half million subscribers. When it comes to putting out information he reaches a considerable number of people. Again I think you lot are massively overstating both his importance and influence simply to fit the usual ‘he’s anti elite so my position is therefore automatically that it’s a stitch up and everything else is rubbish’ 6 million subscribers isn’t actually that big a following once you start getting into the business end of youtube. Also rather obviously they won’t all be from the UK. So if your angle is to say he has 1/12 of the UK populations attention to better fit your position, you’d be wrong. I sometimes agree with his position on some political matters, more so in the past - but he’s not a big political player. He’s not even on the radar.
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| Stirlingsays 18 Sep 23 10.27pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Again I think you lot are massively overstating both his importance and influence simply to fit the usual ‘he’s anti elite so my position is therefore automatically that it’s a stitch up and everything else is rubbish’ 6 million subscribers isn’t actually that big a following once you start getting into the business end of youtube. Also rather obviously they won’t all be from the UK. So if your angle is to say he has 1/12 of the UK populations attention to better fit your position, you’d be wrong. I sometimes agree with his position on some political matters, more so in the past - but he’s not a big political player. He’s not even on the radar. You can think this is entirely organic if you wish, however I politely disagree. When it comes to famous individuals willing to be anti elite with big audiences...they are few and far between....and even if it's 1/12 the UK population that's much more than tune into say Sunak's videos. So I don't agree with your contention that people like him are ignored. I can point to the evidence of say how people like Lennon and various other public figures of the past were treated by intelligence and other services and they had no means of directly addressing the public through social media like they do today. There is a value in them damaging Brand as it serves as a warning for anti elite content in general.....which they look for restrict anyway they can. What exactly do they lose? Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Sep 2023 10.28pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 23 10.42pm |
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Since when did Brand’s YouTube channel put out information? Nothing he publishes there is information! It is devoted to misinformation and conspiracy theories. Something he is well known for in recent years. Only those unable to accept that Brand feeds them fuel for their own prejudices fail to recognise this. That they are now unwilling to contemplate that their hero might have more than just a controversial past, but an illegal one, is confirmation of their blindness to the obvious.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Sep 23 10.49pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You can think this is entirely organic if you wish, however I politely disagree. When it comes to famous individuals willing to be anti elite with big audiences...they are few and far between....and even if it's 1/12 the UK population that's much more than tune into say Sunak's videos. So I don't agree with your contention that people like him are ignored. I can point to the evidence of say how people like Lennon and various other public figures of the past were treated by intelligence and other services and they had no means of directly addressing the public through social media like they do today. There is a value in them damaging Brand as it serves as a warning for anti elite content in general.....which they look for restrict anyway they can. What exactly do they lose? Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Sep 2023 10.28pm) You misread I said it’s not 1/12 of the population. YouTube is international. His 6 million following also won’t be regular viewers, some will be bots, just like all youtubers. His actual UK based core following will be far lower than 6 million. And also a big majority of those will not be political, they’ll be people following him for advice about beating addiction etc. Overstating Again, you are over inflating his political relevance and impact simply because of your anti-elite beliefs And if you’re comparing brand to Lennon - or any other actually notable public political figures of the past you’ve lost the plot Brand is small fry. Maybe not in your world, but in the big wide one, he’s no longer as relevant or as visible as he once was. On ignored - he’s not even big enough to be ignored. Edited by SW19 CPFC (18 Sep 2023 10.53pm)
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Sep 23 10.51pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Since when did Brand’s YouTube channel put out information? Nothing he publishes there is information! It is devoted to misinformation and conspiracy theories. Something he is well known for in recent years. Only those unable to accept that Brand feeds them fuel for their own prejudices fail to recognise this. That they are now unwilling to contemplate that their hero might have more than just a controversial past, but an illegal one, is confirmation of their blindness to the obvious. In his defence, there are sometimes threads of rational critique that he’s always been capable of but these days a lot of it gets rapidly lost by veering off into (vastly more monetisable) rabbit holes. He’s also getting older so probably more bitter.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Stirlingsays 18 Sep 23 11.18pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
You misread I said it’s not 1/12 of the population. YouTube is international. His 6 million following also won’t be regular viewers, some will be bots, just like all youtubers. His actual UK based core following will be far lower than 6 million. And also a big majority of those will not be political, they’ll be people following him for advice about beating addiction etc. Overstating Again, you are over inflating his political relevance and impact simply because of your anti-elite beliefs And if you’re comparing brand to Lennon - or any other actually notable public political figures of the past you’ve lost the plot Brand is small fry. Maybe not in your world, but in the big wide one, he’s no longer as relevant or as visible as he once was. On ignored - he’s not even big enough to be ignored. Edited by SW19 CPFC (18 Sep 2023 10.53pm) I think you are incorrect if you think Brand and his opinions aren't known by considerably more than you think. He's been a public figure for decades. Your views on his reach are purely conjecture. One minute I'm being told that Brand is making millions spreading lies and the next you're telling me he's irrelevant and makes no impact. I also once again stress that someone like Lennon did not have access to a platform like today. If you think that nothing is going on and it's all organic you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You think I'm over inflating his political relevance due to being anti-elite?....Well, I'm certainly anti neo liberal and low quality elites yeah....for sure....However, I'm not anti elites who are actually competent and have the best interests of those they rule over....but that's a side point. Once again I'll make the point that well known public figures who come out as anti elite are few and far between. The regular action taken against seemingly all of them tends towards my suspicions rather than yours. You think I've lost the plot? Perhaps or perhaps you are slightly naive and as I pointed out, the past reveals that projects against public figures have been a constant, not a fantasy. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Sep 2023 11.20pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Sep 23 11.37pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I think you are incorrect if you think Brand and his opinions aren't known by considerably more than you think. He's been a public figure for decades. Your views on his reach are purely conjecture. One minute I'm being told that Brand is making millions spreading lies and the next you're telling me he's irrelevant and makes no impact. I also once again stress that someone like Lennon did not have access to a platform like today. If you think that nothing is going on and it's all organic you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You think I'm over inflating his political relevance due to being anti-elite?....Well, I'm certainly anti neo liberal and low quality elites yeah....for sure....However, I'm not anti elites who are actually competent and have the best interests of those they rule over....but that's a side point. Once again I'll make the point that well known public figures who come out as anti elite are few and far between. The regular action taken against seemingly all of them tends towards my suspicions rather than yours. You think I've lost the plot? Perhaps or perhaps you are slightly naive and as I pointed out, the past reveals that projects against public figures have been a constant, not a fantasy. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Sep 2023 11.20pm) You’re just over inflating his importance. He’s also only on your radar because of his recent pivot into right wing land. He’s always held the same political opinions and been far more visible to the general electorate (the ones that actually matter) than he is now. He has indeed been a public figure for decades and I can assure you that his reach was far wider at his peak then than it is now. Plenty of examples of prominent anti-establishment figures being taken down, or out even. I’m not naive to the obvious fact that shady s*** happens on the regular. However, he’s not prominent, he’s nowhere near the reach or relevance of Lennon, and I really dislike the narrative which is simply - ‘it must be the elites. No way any of this is credible’. It’s a very partisan position If he’d actually channeled all his looney addiction and general silliness over his career into doing more with the fleeting glimpses of what actually was on a lot of occasions valid and often well articulated political critique then we might be having a different conversation. But an Assange, a Lennon, a Snowden he most certainly is not and never will be. Nowhere near it. Edited by SW19 CPFC (18 Sep 2023 11.38pm)
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